Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked

[Hannover]

I see not why this document of the Einsatgruppen could not be included in this thread. This is an early document of the Einsatgruppen dating 2 october 1941.
It states clearly that 33,771 Jews where executed on the 29 and 30 0f 9.1941
I have read the rebuttal on this thread of the Einsatgruppen documents but non of this particular document Einsatgruppen C , nor did i find anywhere in this forum a copy of this document.
I think it would only be fair for people to look at this document , provide accurate translation and impression . it is not serious to ignore this :
Here it is :
Einsatgruppen C , cover page

Einsatgruppen C , 2nd page :


~

Here we go again, it's Amateur Night.

- How does anyone know this is a real German document? Because it's in German?
- Where was this 'document' found?
- By Whom?
- When?
- We note that it is not even signed ... by anyone.
- We see a lack of official agency stamps.
- Odd that it abruptly ends, are there other pages? If so, why aren't they included?
- How was such a precise number arrived at?
- Where are the required human remains of this "33,771"?
- Why don't the detailed aerial photos at the exact alleged moment show anything?
- Why hasn't an verified excavation of the alleged site taken place and photos of contents shown?

A guy with a German language typewriter and a stamp which says 'secret' in German .. bingo! They could type whatever they wished, and all too apparently, did just that.

Respond to the challenges, onetruth.

Here we go, a document with proves witchcraft.


Revisionists are just the messengers.

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[Dresden]

I'm reading a paper by Arthur Butz from 2001that is relevant not only to this thread, but to most threads on this Forum; it shows the difference in how most rational people understand reality, and how the upholders of the Hoax "understand" reality:

http://codoh.com/library/document/2939/

Historical Past vs. Political Present

Earlier today we heard of a concern from their camp that I have heard many times before. This time it was expressed by Deborah Lipstadt:

the “survivors” are now dying off at such an alarming rate that it will soon be difficult to confound the revisionists.

Such a view can only be advanced in hysteria, because of what it tacitly admits. No sane person would fear that, because all those alive at the time of the US Civil War are now dead, it will be difficult to confound those who might deny it happened. The defenders of the hoax have quite lost their grip on historical reality, and on what it means for something to “happen” in real time and real space.

Lipstadt has many times expressed the view of which I spoke. .....they imagine the “Holocaust” as something that exists more substantially in the present rather than the past.

Does our dispute with the defenders of the entrenched legend arise not over what happened, but over what it means for something to “happen”? Is the dispute metaphysical rather than historical? Or is it neither?

My question is urgently practical. If I must try to express in comprehensible terms the metaphysical principle suggested by Lipstadt and many of the defenders of Wilkomirski and Grabowski, I would say it is the idea that “happen” means something like “said, with emotion and apparent conviction, to happen,” or perhaps “believed fervently to have happened,” though both of these descriptions necessarily fall short, as I cannot empathize with the mentality involved.

This interpretation is reinforced by the religious function played by the “Holocaust,” which many have observed. Religious faith is self-validating, impervious to reason, and regards proposals to scientifically validate its claims as profane in all senses of the word.


So, is the Babi Yar "massacre" real because it is "said, with emotion and apparent conviction, to have happened", or because it is "believed fervently to have happened", or because of something written on a piece of paper, or because there was a forensic investigation carried out by experts, filmed and photographed like Katyn, with autopsies?

[onetruth]

- How does anyone know this is a real German document? Because it's in German?
- Where was this 'document' found?
- By Whom?
- When?
- We note that it is not even signed ... by anyone.
- We see a lack of official agency stamps.

I understand that you contest the authenticity of the document . It should be pointed out that the Einsatzgruppen documents where accepted as authentic by a number of courts in a number of trials , one of the latest being the Irving v. Lipstadt case in 2000.

Even Irving accept the authenticity of those documents , he may have argued about the content implications and whether Hitler did or did not read them but nowhere did he question their validity. I am sure he would have tried to do so had he any chance to cast doubt on documents so harmful to his case he would have.

see here :

At 13.57, Gray J finds that:--
"The evidence which prompted Irving to make these concessions consisted in the regular reports made by the Einsatzgruppen to Berlin; the preparation by the RSHA in Berlin of Ereignismeldungen (event announcements). . . "

Now I am no documents expert but the fact those documents where accepted by numerous courts is reason enough not to throw them off hand and dismiss them in the manner you just did.

~

[Hannover]

onetruth:

- 'Steam chambers' were submitted by the Soviets as the cause of death of Jews and accepted in court (Nuremberg), do you believe it?
- The Katyn massacre of Poles by the Soviets was 'proven" to be a German crime in a Soviet court, Germans were executed for it. Do you believe it?
Witchcraft was proven as fact in countless courts. Do you believe witchcraft is fact?
OJ Simpson was found innocent in court, do believe it?

Proof of witchcraft:


recommended:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10253
'The Einsatzgruppen and 'Holocaust Standards'

Your laughable strawman Irving accepts the Hofle document as proof of '2M Jews' being shot, even though it says nothing more than Jews were transported. And do recall that Irving said this after he was given an early release from Thought Crimes Prison. Compromised? Obviously.

So, is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?
So where are the necessary human remains? Please show them to us, onetruth.
Give us your proof, no dodging.

see:
Irving's 'holocaust' lite / but what '2.4 million document'?
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548
and here:
'Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4558
and
'Grubach's Letters to David Irving on the Hoefle telegram'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4563

The Los Angeles Coliseum holds ca 90,000. But according to you 2,000,000 Jews were shot which would leave unimaginable amounts of human remains. That equals over 22 times the Los Angeles Coliseum capacity shown here:

So where are the necessary human remains? Please show them to us, onetruth.

In what's called 'an appeal to authority' you quoted:

At 13.57, Gray J finds that:--
"The evidence which prompted Irving to make these concessions consisted in the regular reports made by the Einsatzgruppen to Berlin; the preparation by the RSHA in Berlin of Ereignismeldungen (event announcements). . . "

Gray is only reacting to what he has been told. Of course when we actually look at these "reports" we see they do not pass the smell test, as demonstrated repeatedly at this forum.

The questions about Babi Yar and that 'document' which you dodge, again:

- How does anyone know this is a real German document? Because it's in German?
- Where was this 'document' found?
- By Whom?
- When?
- We note that it is not even signed ... by anyone.
- We see a lack of official agency stamps.
- Odd that it abruptly ends, are there other pages? If so, why aren't they included?
- How was such a precise number arrived at?
- Where are the required human remains of this "33,771"?
- Why don't the detailed aerial photos at the exact alleged moment show anything?
- Why hasn't an verified excavation of the alleged site taken place and photos of contents shown?

Answer the challenges, onetruth.

and about this absurd Babi Yar 'proof':

- Where is the proof that this is an actual German 'order' and not a communist / Zionist creation?
- It looks like something any typical propaganda unit with a crude printing press could have printed up.
- Why would the Germans post such an alleged public notice throughout the city knowing full well the potential for propaganda it would make?
- Why would the Germans allow such a public notice of alleged 'secret' actions?
They wouldn't.

onetruth, your dodging of challenges is becoming a joke.
I realize you're taking your best shot at circumventing Revisionist information and challenges, but now it's time to stop the game.

Fish or cut bait.

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[Elroy]

~

The debate on this subject is becoming all too familiar ...

It is. The lies are put up- demolished by revision, you slink away.

Here is the order posted telling all the Kievan jews to assemble in the Russian , ukraine and german languages :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar# ... ijar14.jpg

Fraudulent order- fraudulent source.

All Yids[a] of the city of Kiev and its vicinity must appear on Monday, September 29, by 8 o'clock in the morning at the corner of Mel'nikova and Dorohozhytska streets (near the Viis'kove cemetery). Bring documents, money and valuables, and also warm clothing, linen, etc. Any Yids[a] who do not follow this order and are found elsewhere will be shot. "

Not to mention so ridiculous that reading it itself debunks Babi Yar as absurd.

Now all is left for us is to determine is what happened to the ten of thousands jews that lived in this area. So how would we do that ???

By first acknowledging that the vast majority of them had been evacuated and then applying whatever academic and scientific principles- cancerous to the orthodox- possible to ascertain the rest.

According to revisionists tradition all the survivors testimonies are disregarded , same goes for the Nazis that took part in the murder confessions and local bystanders eye witness account.

CORRECTION REQUIRED:
According to Revisionist tradition:

- All survivor testimonies involved are refuted beyond any reasonable doubt
- All Nazi confessions are refuted beyond any reasonable doubt, as well as their character as coerced exposed 100%
- By-standers at best shown to have no value as witnesses and at worst ccontrinuting to a lie.

Revisionists want to claim that something else happened to all those people which does not include being gunned down and thrown into a pit. But what do revisionists provide as evidence to their version of the event that involved tens of thousands of people ?

CORRECTION: All those people never went to that ravine at Babi Yar, the premise is false itself because it's on a false foundation.

As evidence the revisionists provide the entire historiographic evolution of the lie from start to finish exposing it as rubbish in broad brush strokes and in every minutia of detail.

Accounts of Nazi germans that where there and tell a different version of how things happened = 0
Accounts of eye witness that saw the Jews being gathered but shipped elsewhere - whether it is to some camp or to the moon = 0
Accounts of any Jew or of another nationality that was assembled in the appointed place and was not shot and crawled out of a pit filled with bodies , but was send elsewhere ( we are talking about ten thousands of people after all surely they can find one ) = 0

You left out...

- Logical absurdities / impossibilities
- Demonstrably falsified documentation (100% of it)
- Technical absurdity/impossibility
- Propaganda origin
- No autopsy, no grave, disproven by air photo imagery.
And so on...

I leave it to others to draw their conclusions , i know i have .

Yes, you have drawn the conclusion the whole thing is an amusing lie and promote it anyway.

Planned to have the site turned into a sports field and later decided instead- to turn the site into a municipal garbage dump

Please people- decide

https://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en