Auschwitz I chimney on Holocaust Memorial Day

[Reinhard]

Reinhard, you seem to have a handle on the various ideas here; could you summarize where we're at. It's a bit confusing.

I'll have a try.

Kiwichap wondered, why the chimney of Krema I isn't connected to the building. The chimney isn't the original war-time chimney, but was "reconstructed" by the Poles after the war, exactly as the "gas chamber" and the crematorium ovens were as well. As far as I know, the Poles and the Jews claimed until the end of the 1970ies or the beginning of the 1980ies, everything was "original", but when Prof. Faurisson dug out the various plans and diagrams mentioned in this thread, they had to admit that they had "reconstructed" the crematorium, allegedly exactly as it had been during the "Holocaust". Prof. Faurisson, Germar Rudolf, Carlo Mattogno and others proved that this is not true.

There were allegedly (and according to the plans and documents) three double-muffle ovens in the building, the first one was built in summer 1940, the second one in February 1941 and the third one (in the plans on the left side) in summer 1942.
The crematorium was put out of service on 19 July 1943, when the two new crematoria in Birkenau were completed.
In fall 1944 the former crematorium was converted into an air-raid shelter for the SS-hospital, which was situated across the road (visible at the background of the photograph posted above). Therefore the chimney was dismantled (perhaps this had been done already earlier on), a new entrance leading to an air-lock (on the right side at the bottom on the plans I named in my last post - this entrance today is presented to the visitors as "entrance of the victims to the gas chamber") has been built and the mortuary (the alleged "gas chamber") was divided by partiton walls into four rooms. The plan for the conversion into an air-raid shelter is to be seen at: http://vho.org/D/vuez/v2.html in Abbildung 2.4.

When the Poles "reconstructed" the building after WW II, they made a quite embarrasing mistake: By removing the partition walls, which divided the former mortuary in four rooms, they went "one wall too far", i.e. they removed also the wall to the washing room (No. 4 at: http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif and according to this "new [too large] gas chamber" they placed the "Zyklon B - holes" on the roof (No. 2 in the plan at above named URL), so that they are placed in a proper way for the too large room, which never existed in the "German time" of the building, but in the wrong way for the former mortuary, which they want us make to believe was used as a homicidal "gas chamber".

The ovens also had been removed by the Germans and the Poles rebuilt them in a rather flimsy manner, so that they could not be operated today. Since the (mock-up) chimney is not connected to the building, there were some suspicions that it never could have been at that place, but we are told that there were underground smoke canals leading to the chimney, for the ovens were equipped with 3 hp three-phase AC motor powered exhaust fans. Moreover, there are two vents for the supply of fresh air to the furnace room on the roof.

Ultimately, there was some confusion, when trying to connect the different plans to the photograph of the building. This was due to the fact that the photograph was taken from the opposite direction. So, if you rotate the plans by 180 ° so that the chimney is on the bottom (instead of the top) of the plan, you have the same view as on the photograph.

[polardude]

As far as I know, the Poles and the Jews claimed until the end of the 1970ies or the beginning of the 1980ies, everything was "original", but when Prof. Faurisson dug out the various plans and diagrams mentioned in this thread, they had to admit that they had "reconstructed" the crematorium, allegedly exactly as it had been during the "Holocaust". Prof. Faurisson, Germar Rudolf, Carlo Mattogno and others proved that this is not true.

Actually that is not true.

All plans and diagrams mentioned in this thread were originally dug out or or "discovered" by either the Museum or Jewish scholars.

Farusson, Rudolf and Mattogno simply discuss the history of this building on terms dictated by the Museum and the Industry.

An interesting exercise in Angel Pinhead dancing, but not very illuminating in terms of Real History.

[Kiwichap]

Polardude, if the 'you know who' is involved, then it's all smoke and mirrors.

However, the holes were never there, because the zyklon residue is not there.

A photo or two of that building, during the time it was said to be a killer, would put to bed the chimney problem and probably the furnaces.

In Coles movie, the German girl, his guide said "Extermination was moved to Birkenau because too many people knew what was going on" - something like that. But you only needed to look out any one of the numerous windows in the hospital, you would have seen it all, from day one. Her official answer is as fishy as the reconstructed chimney.

Reinhard, you used the word 'alleged'. Do you think the building was equipped with furnaces? Was it a morgue or a crematoty or both. Has the label 'crematory' fooled us all.

At the Auckland Hospital there is a small furnace, I don't think it is operating now, it burnt body bits as you can imagine. Never bodies.

All our crematories are outta sight - outta mind, in the country or city fringes.

To put 6 muffles, going 24/7, typhus epidemic not withstanding, burning bodies, in the camp, next to the hospital, with poison gas and all the rest that it would entail, sounds just like what the folk who invented the V2 rocket would do - NOT.

Can we trust any of the plans we have seen?

There must be photos.

[Reinhard]

All plans and diagrams mentioned in this thread were originally dug out or or "discovered" by either the Museum or Jewish scholars.

Faurisson, Rudolf and Mattogno simply discuss the history of this building on terms dictated by the Museum and the Industry.

Yes, it's true that Prof. Faurisson has found the plans in the Auschwitz-Museum. But since the plans contradict the version of the "Industry" concerning the alleged mass gassings (they wouldn't have been possible, simply because there was no door, through which the "victims" could have entered - they would have had to enter through the furnace-room, which of course is absurd), I don't think that the plans had been forged by the "Holocau$t Industry", because they would have made false plans, which confirm their version.

But, as Turpitz has mentioned in his post (May 02nd, 3:19 p.m. and my reply of May 02nd, 5:52 p.m.), it's very strange that the length of the building in the plan for the alleged addition of the third oven is given as 36,57 m, i.e. ten metres longer than in the other plans (for the conversion into an air-raid shelter and the plan showing the shape of the building today), which makes a difference of 37,6 % to the actual length of the building. As I wrote in my above mentioned reply, I can't remember Faurisson, Mattogno or Rudolf having discussed this strange difference, but I may be wrong here.

I came across an interesting issue in footnote 18 of an article written by a certain "Knud Bäcker" (pseudonym) in Germar Rudolfs periodical Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung No. 1/1999, p. 60:
"'At first they [the Germans] built a small crematorium in Auschwitz I with 4 muffles. Then two large crematoria, II and III, were built in Auschwitz II (Birkenau)' (Dr. Filip Friedman, To jest Oswiecim!, Warsaw 1945, p. 72 and Dr. Filip Friedman (Director of the Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland), Oswiecim - The Story of a Murder Camp, The United Jewish Relief Appeal, London 1946, p. 54). - The alleged installation of a third double-muffle oven in Auschwitz I is not mentioned here. In the 'Broad-Report' as well ' 4 ovens' are mentioned, which can only refer to the 2 double-muffle ovens with their 4 muffles (Rawicz (ed.), KL Auschwitz in den Augen der SS, PMO, 1973, p. 159). Not till the Soviet Pravda-article of 7 May 1945 a third oven is mentioned."
And in footnote 59 on page 61 of the same issue of VffG "Bäcker" quotes Friedman once again and comments:
"[...] Here we have been informed first hand by a member of the Soviet-Polish Commission immediately in 1945 on the real equipment of the 'old' crematorium: Two double-muffle ovens with together four muffles. Not until the Pravda-report of 7 May 1945 three ovens are claimed.”
That would correspond with the two vents on the roof.

There must be photos.

Yes, I think so.
The SS Construction Office has taken photographs, the camp-partisans have as well and it's obvious that the British and the Soviets (and of course the Jews) have such photographs, but they are never published. I agree with Turpitz "that there is something to be hid".

The British managed to fly parts of the guidance-system of a V-2 missile, which was tested in Poland and crashed into the banks of the Bug river in 1944 (it was hidden by Polish partisans) to England with a Douglas C-47 airplane. Moreover, there was a permanent connection between Poland and London by Polish couriers. So, they certainly have photos of all concentration camps in Poland and knew, what was going on there.

By the way, there is a photograph of Crematorium I, taken in 1945, after the Soviets had occupied Auschwitz, in Pressac's book Auschwitz: Technique and Operation... (p. 144) [John C. Ball shows it on p. 35 of his book Air Photo Evidence, but it's a very poor photo, which shows no details. Pressac (on page 149 of his above mentioned book) shows another photo as well, which shows that, probably in May 1945, a dancing event took place on the roof of Krema I (!!) and a stage had been built for this event. The communists are very strange people indeed, to dance on the roof of a sacred building, in which tenthousands of Jews had been gassed!

[Kiwichap]

Reinhard - the story goes that the building was converted into an air-raid shelter for the hospital staff.

But the building is not really underground. It would make as good a target as any building in the camp. Perhaps the earthern sides would make you feel safer, but really, a bomb landing on the building or nearby would finish it.

Do you think the air-raid shelter story is true. Or could that be a story to cover the tracks of them that converted the building after the war - to look like a big gas-chamber?

[Hannover]

Kiwichap:

But the building is not really underground. It would make as good a target as any building in the camp. Perhaps the earthern sides would make you feel safer, but really, a bomb landing on the building or nearby would finish it.

There were many examples of bomb shelters above ground. Yes, a direct hit is not going to help you much, but most bombing casualties are a result of objects projected away from the center of impact.

- Hannover

[Kiwichap]

I understand that Hannover, however...

The Londoners went down to the tubes, you would have to blast through the earth to get them.

Why would I leave the SS hospital, and zip across the road to that 'big flat-roofed building' and think I would be any safer? Bomb gets the hospital, I'm gone - bomb gets the morgue - I'm still gone.

You are just as dead if one floor falls on you, as two.

Air-raid Shelter

Air raid shelters were built specifically to serve as protection against enemy air raids. However, pre-existing edifices designed for other functions, such as underground stations (tube or subway stations), tunnels, or cellars in houses, basements in larger establishments, and railway arches, were also utilised. These structures, being below ground or almost so, and being especially strengthened to support the weight of the buildings above them, were therefore particularly suitable to safeguard people during air raids.

Underground, thats the story - I know it says 'almost'. However, if you look at the big pic, this building is in no-way 'almost' underground.. To all intents, it is above ground.

If the hospital had a basement, thats where I would be.

On another note. We know the building is totally suspect - in so many ways - lets assume any dates are also.

We know the most air raids were during the last, say 2 yrs of the war. By millions of tons more. We know "gassings" were during the same period.

What is the protocol, as Leuchter would say, for an air raid in the middle of a gassing?

Do the sondercommandos rush into the gas-chambers, eating and smoking, at the first sound of the alarm?

Do they quickly pull the multitude of gassed and half gassed people out, ventilate the building and get all the hospital staff in ASAP.

After ALL CLEAR - re-gas those not properly gassed and burn the rest.

I mean, it is legitimate to ask, is'nt it? What was the protocol, what was the procedure?

[Kiwichap]

The building was 'converted into an air-raid shelter'. How do you do that?

So it had 'gas tight' doors fitted. What else did they do - knock down walls - I don't think so.

The building was not converted into an typical 'air-raid shelter', it is not suitable, it was a defence against a 'gas attack' which the Germans had real cause to fear. The Brits and Germans both used gas in WW1 - lets not worry who used it first - ok? The Germans were thorough - they planned for it. Hence all the gas tight doors fitted everywhere.

So the question is: Why am I feeling safe in this gas-tight shelter, standing beside these raging furnaces, which they have not managed to shut down yet, the alarm only sounded 5 minutes ago, gosh, theres blimmin corpses everywhere, the smoke and flames are giving my position away and there is this horrible smell of gas in the a;ir... uuurk.

[Reinhard]

The building was 'converted into an air-raid shelter'. How do you do that?

So it had 'gas tight' doors fitted. What else did they do - knock down walls - I don't think so.

So the question is: Why am I feeling safe in this gas-tight shelter, standing beside these raging furnaces, which they have not managed to shut down yet, the alarm only sounded 5 minutes ago, gosh, theres blimmin corpses everywhere, the smoke and flames are giving my position away and there is this horrible smell of gas in the a;ir... uuurk.

As I wrote in my earlier posts, the crematorium had been taken out of service on 19 July 1943, whereas the conversion into an air-raid shelter took place in October 1944.
As far as I know, the alleged gassings are said to have taken place in that building in late 1941 and in 1942 (when there was no door, through which the "victims" could have entered), later on the "gassings" are said to have taken place in two farmhouses ("Bunker 1 + 2") in Birkenau and (from spring 1943 on) in the new crematoria in Birkenau.
So, when the building was used as an air-raid shelter, there were no "raging furnaces", no smoke and flames, no corpses and no HCN.

What else did they do - knock down walls - I don't think so.

They didn't remove walls, but they built new partition walls, which divided the former mortuary into four rooms and added a new entrance to the former mortuary (the entrance, which today is presented to the visitors as "entrance to the 'gas chamber'", which didn't exist at the time, the "gassings" are said to have taken place there):

But I don't understand another thing here:
If the crematorium had been put out of service in July 1943, why were the ovens not sent to another concentration camp and used there? The ovens allegedly were not dismantled until January 1945 and then sent to Mauthausen (1 oven) and Groß-Rosen (two ovens), if I recall the story correctly.
Even more absurd: why do they show up in the above plan for conversion into an air-raid shelter? They are blocking a lot of space, aren't they? If they were removed, the furnace room could have been used for that purpose as well.

Yes, that air-raid shelter is not underground, but as Hannover has correctly mentioned, it would have protected against the pressure of nearby exploding bombs and bomb-splinters. A direct hit would of couse have destroyed the building.

One more strange thing:
As I wrote in my last post, at first, there were mentioned only two double-muffle ovens (which corresponds to the two vents on the roof). In the Pravda-article of 7 May 1945 then a third one (in the plans on the left side) was mentioned.
If you have a look at the plan:

You will notice that the ovens were lighted from the rear-side (four stairs are drawn in, which led downstairs to the grate. No. 6 is the coke storage room. So you have a short way from the coke storage to the two ovens. But for the alleged third oven (left) you have to carry the coke the whole way through the entire furnace room! Why wasn't the wall behind the alleged third oven removed and a seperate coke storage built, there would have been enough space in the yard? (see on the photo on the right side!)

[Kiwichap]

Reinhard, I think I missed the bus:

You said:

As I wrote in my earlier posts, the crematorium had been taken out of service on 19 July 1943, whereas the conversion into an air-raid shelter took place in October 1944.

So, have I got this right, The morgue/crematory couple, loses the crematory part in July 1943. It continued to operate as a morgue for 15 months and then was converted into an air-raid shelter. Oct 1944.

They would have to sink the building in the ground or cover it with masses of concrete to convert it into an air-raid shelter. Don't you think?

More likely, add gas-tight doors, shore up the sides with earth, seal the roof (it looks sealed to me), an inside out gas chamber.

If the building was an air-raid shelter - then it was an air-raid shelter from day one of the war. You can't convert a building into an air-raid shelter just by taking away the chimney, and adding a few walls.

You said:

As far as I know, the alleged gassings are said to have taken place in that building in late 1941 and in 1942

Funny that, I thought the "final solution' was during the last three years of the war, did I read that somewhere?

You said:

They didn't remove walls, but they built new partition walls, which divided the former mortuary into four rooms

And this to convert the building into an air-raid shelter - with a bath room.

Reinhard, the mall is open, but no ones shopping.

[Hannover]

Reinhard mentioned:

... the crematorium had been taken out of service on 19 July 1943, whereas the conversion into an air-raid shelter took place in October 1944.

So here we have an alleged extermination / death camp supposedly gassing Jews at a rate that overburdened the Auschwitz-Birkenau cremation capacities.

This supposedly resulted in the need for massive outdoor cremation pits where liquid human fat was used for fuel. These alleged massive cremation pits, which have curiously never been excavated, were supposedly dug into soil where the groundwater is near to the surface of the ground.

Right. But then why would the Germans take this desperately needed cremation capacity off line and THEN allow these desperately needed crematorium 'ovens' to sit around out of use?

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurdity of the 'holocaust' tales is the message.

- Hannover

[Reinhard]

You said:

As far as I know, the alleged gassings are said to have taken place in that building in late 1941 and in 1942

Funny that, I thought the "final solution' was during the last three years of the war, did I read that somewhere?

I wrote: "...in that building...".

[Kiwichap]

Do I understand this correctly, never having been there, and of lately, not trusting plans?

From the pics and movies I have seen, I assume that the alleged 'inflammable gas-chamber' in Auschwitz 1 was directly next to the crematory furnaces. I mean, the furnaces were in the kitchen, the 'inflammable gas-chamber' was in the dining room, I mean right next door, literally. Open the door of the 'inflammable gas-chamber' and you are in the furnace room, going full tilt, burning people 24/7.

Have I got this right? Is that the doorway where there is no door?

[Reinhard]

That's correct.
No. 4 on the second plan I've posted above is the alleged "gas chamber". You will notice that there is no door from outside.
This door (through which Cole entered and which is presented today as the door to the gas chamber) wasn't built until October 1944 (no. 1 on the right side on the bottom of the first plan posted above), while the crematorium (in July 1943) and the "gas chamber" (in March 1942) had already been put out of service for a long time (according to Pressac).
So, the "victims" only could have entered the "gas chamber" during the time it allegedly was operated through the furnace room, which of course is absurd.

[Turpitz]

I’m once again going with the forged plan thesis, drawn by liars and post-war con-artists.

I am also reiterating that until someone who knows what they are looking at is allowed to scrutinize these structures, the truth will remain unknown (unless you are inclined to believe the industry)

As for the internal partition walls, from what I can see on the Cole video, they must have removed walls, because the new screeds on the floor are to cover the strips in the floor slab from where the old walls penetrated. That tells me they were from the original build and rising off their own strip foundation. If they had built new walls, they would have took them directly off the floor slab, there would be no need to start carving the floor slab up, the floor slab is the ideal base for laying a wall down. After the removal of these walls there would be no damage to the floor slab apart from a basic mortar staining from where the first bed was laid. The floor in this building shows serious attempts at trying to patch the concrete floor, in order to try and cover the positions from where the old interior walls penetrated from beneath.

At the end of the day these scraps of garbage have hideous mistakes about them and are worthless for determining what the truth is.

If this ridiculous error of nine metres had been on one plan, after about ten years of nagging, you might well have been able to convince me, but on more than one set of plans, you will never be able to convince me.

What I think people really mean is you cannot bring yourself to believe that these compulsive liars would have the audacity to try such trickery at dire attempts at daylight forgery. Well I suggest they would not have any qualms about using such tactics, after all having dumb-goy as your intended quarry makes it so easy to get away with.

The fact that no genuine wartime photo or film is made available is the final nail in the coffin for me, because I simply believe that there is/was somewhere and it has been hidden/destroyed.