Where Specifically Do [Revisionists] Think the Reinhardt Jews Went?

[fireofice]

One other thing the Korherr Report doesn't seem to mention is the fact that less and less Jews will identify as Jews over time under an anti-Semitic regime. This will result in more "reductions" of the Jewish population. Korrher probably attributed a good amount of this to non existent deportations.

[hermod]

I don't think it makes sense to include the resettlement of Jews from one part of Europe to another in a document about the decrease of the Jewish population in Europe.

The only way it would make sense is if the 'resettled' Jews were resettled out of Europe. But this is an absurdity given that the Germans never occupied the Asian regions of the USSR.

Alternatively, the "orthodox" theory is right, and 'transport to the Russian east' (like the term it replaced in the first draft, "Sonderbehandlung") is simply a euphemism for murder.

That's a reasoning distorted by a foregone conclusion. The Korherr Report was about the final solution of the Jewish problem (the title of the document, if memory serves me right), not about the decrease of the Jewish population in Europe. The wartime expulsion of the Jews in the German spehere of influence and in the surrounding countries and their resettlement in Eastern Europe (in German-occupied Poland and then in "the Russian East") was of course only the first step of the final solution of the Jewish problem in Europe. But the second step of it implied a final German military victory which never came. The victors of WWII could impose any of their diktats on the vanquished. Thus the leaders of a victorious Axis could have resettled the Jews of Europe in a big ghetto located anywhere they wished.

Your idea that the Germans could not possibly resettle all the Jews of Europe in a place located out of Europe is based on your belief that the Germans never stood a chance to win the war and that they knew it. That is a false belief. The German leaders of WWII had no reason not to plan the mass resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a remote extra-European ghetto far from Germany because they of course believed for a long time that their country would ultimately win the war and reshape the postwar world as they wished.

[fireofice]

Here's something Germar wrote that is relevant to this issue:

First of all, it needs to be emphasized that there is nothing whatsoever in the Korherr Reports and the accompanying correspondence, which was intended for Hitler’s and Himmler’s eyes only, that would indicate any intent to exterminate the Jews of Europe, or which would suggest that killings had already taken place – which is surprising enough, since there cannot have been any reason to hide any of this from Himmler or Hitler. The report does reveal, however, that some 2½ million Jews were evacuated to the East.

Korherr states:

“Between 1937 and early 1943 the number of Jews in Europe had decreased by approximately 4 million, due partly to emigration, partly to the excess of deaths over births among the Jews of Central and western Europe, and partly to evacuations, particularly from the more densely populated eastern regions, which are counted here as part of the decrease.”

Why does Korherr mention that the evacuations are counted as part of the decrease? That would make sense only if they actually had not disappeared from Europe but were nevertheless counted statistically as having emigrated. So, were they perhaps not dead? S. Challen was puzzled not only by this additional remark and by the absence of even the slightest allusion to the mass murder in these top-secret papers intended for Himmler and Hitler only, but also by the fact that one of Germany’s reputedly best statisticians covered up gross errors in his report so elegantly.

In his conclusions, for example, Korherr wrote that the Jewish population losses in Europe from 1933 to 1943 (some 5 million) were caused approximately 50% by emigration to other continents, but his statistics cite only about 1.5 million emigrants. So roughly 1 million emigrants are missing. This begs the question: why would Germany’s foremost statistician draw conclusions contradicting his own data, and in a secret report intended for Hitler, no less? Furthermore, if one adds Korherr’s individual 1943 figures regarding the Jews scattered throughout the world, one arrives at a total that is only slightly less than the pre-war total; this already rules out any mass extermination. S. Challen therefore went to the trouble of examining Korherr’s claims more closely. He ultimately concludes that Korherr, acting on Himmler’s orders, reduced the emigration statistics by one million and increased the number of Jews evacuated to the East by that same million. And in one of his letters, Himmler writes that this report would serve well as a cover. Challen arrives at the well-founded conclusion that Himmler wanted to keep Hitler from realizing that a large part of the Polish and Russian Jews in the East had gotten away by means of flight and Soviet evacuation measures. On the basis of Korherr’s data, Challen calculated that the Jews lost approximately 1.2 million of their number during World War Two, some 750,000 of them in Germany’s sphere of influence.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/01-dth.pdf

Challen's work:

https://codoh.com/media/files/downloads ... 93-OCR.pdf

Graf, Mattogno, & Kues also say regarding the special treatment issue:

The conclusion we may draw from the analysis of the Korherr report is that the “special treatment of Jews” stood only for the deportation of western Jews (those from the Altreich with Sudetenland, Ostmark and Protectorate) and of the eastern Jews (those from Ostgebiete with Bialystok and General Government with Lemberg) to the East, i.e. beyond the confines of the Greater German Reich. The Jews deported within these confines, in particular the roughly (121,428+8,500=) 130,000 Jews sent to Auschwitz, were not subjected to “special treatment.” Neither were the 69,084 Jews deported from the Altreich, Ostmark, Protectorate, and Slovakia to Nisko and the Lublin district formally subjected to it. We say formally, because they acquired the status of “specially treated” (sonderbehandelt) gradually as they were transited from the Polish ghettos through the various camps. This is also true for the 18,004 Jews deported to Theresienstadt and then from that ghetto to Treblinka. In practice there was a double accounting system: one for the Jews evacuated from individual countries, and one for the Jews who were transited through the above camps and who were counted independently of their origin.

https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Korherr_Report

[HistorySpeaks]

Your idea that the Germans could not possibly resettle all the Jews of Europe in a place located out of Europe is based on your belief that the Germans never stood a chance to win the war and that they knew it. That is a false belief. The German leaders of WWII had no reason not to plan the mass resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a remote extra-European ghetto far from Germany because they of course believed for a long time that their country would ultimately win the war and reshape the postwar world as they wished.

No it does not. You are overthinking this bro.

Korherr's Report is not about a plan to remove Jews in the "postwar world." It is about how the Jewish population in Europe has decreased since the Nazis left .

THerefore, the only type of "resettlement" that would be relevant to the Korherr Report would be resettlement out of Europe (i.e. to the Asian regions of the USSR). But this would have been impossible at the time Korherr wrote the report, since the Germans did not (and never would go on to) occupy any Asian territory of the USSR.

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

[Hektor]

Your idea that the Germans could not possibly resettle all the Jews of Europe in a place located out of Europe is based on your belief that the Germans never stood a chance to win the war and that they knew it. That is a false belief. The German leaders of WWII had no reason not to plan the mass resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a remote extra-European ghetto far from Germany because they of course believed for a long time that their country would ultimately win the war and reshape the postwar world as they wished.

No it does not. You are overthinking this bro.

Korherr's Report is not about a plan to remove Jews in the "postwar world." It is about how the Jewish population in Europe has decreased since the Nazis left .

THerefore, the only type of "resettlement" that would be relevant to the Korherr Report would be resettlement out of Europe (i.e. to the Asian regions of the USSR). But this would have been impossible at the time Korherr wrote the report, since the Germans did not (and never would go on to) occupy any Asian territory of the USSR.

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

It's not clear to me what you mean there. What do you mean by "Nazis leift"?
Why would only 'resettlement to Asia' be of interest?
The Report deals with population shifts. Well, it was the intent of NS to remove Jews from the German sphere of influence. It doesn't have to be "Asia"... Moving them to the occupied territories like Ukraine, Belarus and the Ostland was a intermediary solution. Simply also because there was space and there were labor shortages.

Are you denying that Jews were transported into previously Soviet occupied territories?

[fireofice]

Your idea that the Germans could not possibly resettle all the Jews of Europe in a place located out of Europe is based on your belief that the Germans never stood a chance to win the war and that they knew it. That is a false belief. The German leaders of WWII had no reason not to plan the mass resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a remote extra-European ghetto far from Germany because they of course believed for a long time that their country would ultimately win the war and reshape the postwar world as they wished.

No it does not. You are overthinking this bro.

Korherr's Report is not about a plan to remove Jews in the "postwar world." It is about how the Jewish population in Europe has decreased since the Nazis left .

THerefore, the only type of "resettlement" that would be relevant to the Korherr Report would be resettlement out of Europe (i.e. to the Asian regions of the USSR). But this would have been impossible at the time Korherr wrote the report, since the Germans did not (and never would go on to) occupy any Asian territory of the USSR.

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

No, there were no euphemisms in a report only for Himmler and Hitler's eyes. That's just stupid. It's more likely the report contained false info on Himmler's orders. Everything else against this position you offered regarding "special treatment" and "camouflage" has already been adequately explained to you and makes much more sense.

[borjastick]

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

The Russian East, weasel words and entirely out of place. This is trying to create a difference where there is none, it is a distinction without a difference mate.

[Hektor]

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

The Russian East, weasel words and entirely out of place. This is trying to create a difference where there is none, it is a distinction without a difference mate.

The issue is that the Korherr Report does offer absolutely nothing to support the Exterminationist Thesis, while it is perfectly in line with the Revisionist Views (as is virtually all the evidence). If you accept the Korherr Report as serious internal report, you only can conclude that the Holocaust Narrative is malicious atrocity propaganda.

[hermod]

Your idea that the Germans could not possibly resettle all the Jews of Europe in a place located out of Europe is based on your belief that the Germans never stood a chance to win the war and that they knew it. That is a false belief. The German leaders of WWII had no reason not to plan the mass resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a remote extra-European ghetto far from Germany because they of course believed for a long time that their country would ultimately win the war and reshape the postwar world as they wished.

No it does not. You are overthinking this bro.

Korherr's Report is not about a plan to remove Jews in the "postwar world." It is about how the Jewish population in Europe has decreased since the Nazis left .

THerefore, the only type of "resettlement" that would be relevant to the Korherr Report would be resettlement out of Europe (i.e. to the Asian regions of the USSR). But this would have been impossible at the time Korherr wrote the report, since the Germans did not (and never would go on to) occupy any Asian territory of the USSR.

It's clear that you're rather underthinking it. I didn't say that the Korherr Report was about the potwar world. But the protocol of the Wannsee Conference was. It clearly stipulated that the wartime anti-Jewish measures in Europe were a preliminary to a final solution of the Jewish problem in Europe, that is, a new and last expulsion and resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a world dominated and administered by the victorious Axis powers.

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

Great!! A new [alleged] Nazi genocidal euphemism is born! The delusional world of Holohoaxers is magic! New [alleged] secret Nazi code words and twistorians' groundless decodings emerge as soon as the real world debunks again their dearest conspiracy theory...

[Hektor]

....
It's clear that you're rather underthinking it. I didn't say that the Korherr Report was about the potwar world. But the protocol of the Wannsee Conference was. It clearly stipulated that the wartime anti-Jewish measures in Europe were a preliminary to a final solution of the Jewish problem in Europe, that is, a new and last expulsion and resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a world dominated and administered by the victorious Axis powers.

This is just more support for the idea that 'transport to the Russian East' was a euphemism.

Great!! A new [alleged] Nazi genocidal euphemism is born! The delusional world of Holohoaxers is magic! New [alleged] secret Nazi code words and twistorians' groundless decodings emerge as soon as the real world debunks again their dearest conspiracy theory...

It was obviously a report on policy results at that present date. Not more, but also not less.
The Exterminationists point to the use of a term like "Sonderbehandlung" as proof that this was actually about extermination. Guess one has to grasp for such straws, if the rest of one's evidence isn't exactly overwhelming.

Anything that contradicts the extermination thesis must be called an euphemism. And one has to ignore that other statements could be hyperbole or something similar. And NS had flamboyant characteristics. Holocaustianity's real problem is of course. That the overall evidence is a problem for them, since 99.9% of documents are useless for or even contradictory to their very own thesis on the matter. But ignore this, cherry-pick something here and there and when it isn't concise simply claim those were code-language or euphemisms.

Look, an objective observer going through the full account of evidence. Would come to the following conclusions:
* NS-policy was physical removal of Jews from their sphere of influence and control of Jewish population during the war.
* There were rumors about extermination, but this is partially misunderstandings, partially malicious atrocity propaganda.
* The policies on Jews were harsh, but not without some benevolence. The NS-administration did spend some quite some efforts on the well-being of Jews.
* There was increased mortality during WW2, but this wasn't limited to Jews. In fact this very theme is an argument against claiming the Ukraine famine was genocidal.
* Taking the weaponized atrocity propaganda and malicious attitude of the Allied side into account, it is clear that the narrative was viciously skewed against the Axis/NS-Germany during this period and even afterwards.
* The physical evidence DOES NOT support the Holocaust Thesis, which is why other methods are employed to establish a diablography.
* One method is pointing to testimony. While some of the testimony appears useful for the Holocaustian, the majority of potential witnesses did not believe in the Exterminationist thesis at the time.

Take Otto Frank who was hospitalized in Auschwitz. His daughters were moved westward in 1945. But he actually expected to see them again. This is remarkable, since when there was any extermination activity in Auschwitz, he would have known about this. But apparently he didn't.

[curioussoul]

But the protocol of the Wannsee Conference was. It clearly stipulated that the wartime anti-Jewish measures in Europe were a preliminary to a final solution of the Jewish problem in Europe, that is, a new and last expulsion and resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a world dominated and administered by the victorious Axis powers.

Yes. And not only the Wannsee Protocol supports this notion. "Reams of documents" (to borrow a term from Deborah Lipstadt) attest to the German policy of wartime deportation and eventual post-war resettlement. I could probably quote 15+ documents on this particular policy alone, but I'll quote just a few important ones below:

Goebbels wrote the following on his diary on 26 July 1940:

The big plan for the evacuation of the Jews from Berlin was approved. Furthermore, all the European Jews ought to be deported to Madagascar after the war.

7 March 1942:

I read a detailed report from the SD and police regarding a final solution of the Jewish Question. This involves a tremendous number of new viewpoints. The Jewish Question must be solved within a pan-European frame. There are more than 11 million Jews in Europe. They will have to be concentrated first in the East; perhaps later after the war, an island can be assigned to them, such as Madagascar. In any case, there can be no peace in Europe until the last Jews are totally excluded from the European territory.

In a document stemming from Alfred Rosenberg's "Brown Folder" dating from 20 June 1941, the following was stated:

All measures for the Jewish problem in the occupied eastern territories must be executed from the perspective that the Jewish problem will be solved for all of Europe in general after the war. For this reason they are to be applied as preparatory partial measures and must be in harmony with the decisions otherwise affecting this area.

On the 22 August 1941 Carltheo Zeitschel made the following remark regarding the abandoning of the Madagascar Plan in favor of deportation to the East:

The problem of transporting the Jews to the eastern territories could even be dealt with during the war and would not encounter insurmountable difficulties after the war, especially since all the Jews in the General Gouvernement would be able to cover the distance into the newly delineated territory, of course, with their automobiles on country roads.

[hermod]

But the protocol of the Wannsee Conference was. It clearly stipulated that the wartime anti-Jewish measures in Europe were a preliminary to a final solution of the Jewish problem in Europe, that is, a new and last expulsion and resettlement of the Jews of Europe in a world dominated and administered by the victorious Axis powers.

Yes. And not only the Wannsee Protocol supports this notion. "Reams of documents" (to borrow a term from Deborah Lipstadt) attest to the German policy of wartime deportation and eventual post-war resettlement. I could probably quote 15+ documents on this particular policy alone, but I'll quote just a few important ones below:

Goebbels wrote the following on his diary on 26 July 1940:

The big plan for the evacuation of the Jews from Berlin was approved. Furthermore, all the European Jews ought to be deported to Madagascar after the war.

7 March 1942:

I read a detailed report from the SD and police regarding a final solution of the Jewish Question. This involves a tremendous number of new viewpoints. The Jewish Question must be solved within a pan-European frame. There are more than 11 million Jews in Europe. They will have to be concentrated first in the East; perhaps later after the war, an island can be assigned to them, such as Madagascar. In any case, there can be no peace in Europe until the last Jews are totally excluded from the European territory.

In a document stemming from Alfred Rosenberg's "Brown Folder" dating from 20 June 1941, the following was stated:

All measures for the Jewish problem in the occupied eastern territories must be executed from the perspective that the Jewish problem will be solved for all of Europe in general after the war. For this reason they are to be applied as preparatory partial measures and must be in harmony with the decisions otherwise affecting this area.

On the 22 August 1941 Carltheo Zeitschel made the following remark regarding the abandoning of the Madagascar Plan in favor of deportation to the East:

The problem of transporting the Jews to the eastern territories could even be dealt with during the war and would not encounter insurmountable difficulties after the war, especially since all the Jews in the General Gouvernement would be able to cover the distance into the newly delineated territory, of course, with their automobiles on country roads.

Yes, I know. Thanks for adding what you've just added. Perhaps a thread on that topic would be a good idea.

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[michael_luna_94]

Of course I know what it means.

The formation of Prussian Blue requires very high concentrations of HCN; HCN is water soluble; so hosing down the room would reduce the concentration of HCN in the wall.

It is obvious that they would have to hose down the room after gassing, when you think about it. Mass death from gassing would be a gory process and there would have loads of fecal matter, etc of numerous victims to clean up after the gassings. The reality of hosing down is also supported by the testimonial evidence.

Hydrogen Cyanide gas penetrates into porous materials and cannot have simply been hosed away like you are suggesting (and Green or whoever made the argument first).

The argument that alleged homicidal gassings were quicker than Delousing and thus this explains the discrepancy in the Total Cyanide levels is unconvincing. Even if every alleged homicidal gassing was 20 minutes and the Sonderkommandos cleared out the alleged gas chambers right after the gassing was finished... the amounts of Total Cyanide still don't add up. It would still be a very high exposure of HCN gas in conditions that would have been favorable to the formation of stable Prussian Blue which is basically unaffected by the elements.

Germar already went through all of these arguments you are repeating.

[hermod]

Of course I know what it means.

The formation of Prussian Blue requires very high concentrations of HCN; HCN is water soluble; so hosing down the room would reduce the concentration of HCN in the wall.

It is obvious that they would have to hose down the room after gassing, when you think about it. Mass death from gassing would be a gory process and there would have loads of fecal matter, etc of numerous victims to clean up after the gassings. The reality of hosing down is also supported by the testimonial evidence.

Hydrogen Cyanide gas penetrates into porous materials and cannot have simply been hosed away like you are suggesting (and Green or whoever made the argument first).

The argument that alleged homicidal gassings were quicker than Delousing and thus this explains the discrepancy in the Total Cyanide levels is unconvincing. Even if every alleged homicidal gassing was 20 minutes and the Sonderkommandos cleared out the alleged gas chambers right after the gassing was finished... the amounts of Total Cyanide still don't add up. It would still be a very high exposure of HCN gas in conditions that would have been favorable to the formation of stable Prussian Blue which is basically unaffected by the elements.

Germar already went through all of these arguments you are repeating.

How could they have possibly cleared out the alleged gas chambers right after the gassings were finished anyway? There was no place where the dead bodies could be stored until cremation because orthodox/antirevisionist historians claim that the morgues were undressing rooms and homicidal gas chambers (so unavailable as morgues) and the wartime aerial photographs show no huge piles of dead bodies near the crematoria or anywhere else. Thus the length of cremation time was the limiting factor for the post-gassing cleaning of the alleged gas chambers, even in an antirevisionist perspective.

[Hektor]

Of course I know what it means.

The formation of Prussian Blue requires very high concentrations of HCN....repeating.

How could they have possibly cleared out the alleged gas chambers right after the gassings were finished anyway? There was no place where the dead bodies could be stored until cremation because orthodox/antirevisionist historians claim that the morgues were undressing rooms and homicidal gas chambers (so unavailable as morgues) and the wartime aerial photographs show no huge piles of dead bodies near the crematoria or anywhere else. Thus the length of cremation time was the limiting factor for the post-gassing cleaning of the alleged gas chambers, even in an antirevisionist perspective.

The possibility, practicability, feasibility of what is claimed in the Holocaust Narrative doesn't matter to Exterminationist.... It happened, according to them... and that's why it was 'possible, practical, feasible... Now that's a rather autistic attitude, but that's how they tick.

In a room with cold walls, HCN will condense on those... So even if the concentration in the air is low, there will be a high concentration on the walls. Now what Exterminationists do is to assume that the concentration in the air must be unreasonably low... But even that doesn't help them. And well, to kill people in a large room within minutes... You have to toss in lots of Zyklon B, especially when it is cold and humid in the room. All has to be disconsidered so the story remains believable in appearance. But what counts is whether there are facts, not whether something appears to be the case.