Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

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borjastick
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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby borjastick » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:27 pm)

stinky wrote:Borjastick, you have a very good grasp of things, and would be able to slap down the stronger hoax arguments. To be able to cut through to a broad range of 'normies', what percentage of people have a good understanding of the topic?
The vast majority don't have stronger arguments.
They have been (repetitively) subjected to psychological/emotional manipulation & have a superficial grasp of what is said to have happened.
Much of it wrong, even by the orthodox narrative (lamp shades / soap / showers).
We don't hear from non-J survivors because of (((media))). Also, the obvious pit-falls of painting a different (real) picture of events.


Stinky you're too kind.

There are plenty of good people here. People who really understand the issues, the politics at play and the bullshit used by the holocaust management team.

I tend to have a very simple route to understanding the issues at hand and removing the fog around it to understand things. My background is high-end marketing and advertising which often involved cutting through the puffery of sales talk to establish the fact around a particular product, the competition and thus the clear message to focus on to attract new customers. Logic is everything in the holocaust revisionists game. Forget all the reams of detail and turgid discussion, the holocaust lies fall into very few categories that simply cannot be argued with. Stick to them and hey presto you make progress with those who believe. Be able to demonstrate your point clearly and concisely. Turn every point you make into an advert headline or bullet point.

One of the jokes in the ad world when I was there was 'never let the truth get in the way of a good ad'. That could easily be applied here but to the holocaust believers. They never let the truth get in the way of the holocaust stories.

I'll illustrate this point with a client of mine many years ago and how they simply could not see the massive point of difference they already had but had never identified nor used to their benefit. Then I'll point to some of the clear issues we have here.

The company was one of the biggest carpet manufacturers in the UK. They asked me to go in and do some basic marketing work which frankly would not be very profitable to me. I went in anyway and the sales director and managing director took me around their huge factory showing me how lovely everything was and how wonderful their carpets were. Nothing they said made me jump for joy and see any message which would differentiate them from the competition.

So I started asking simply logical questions about them, their history and the way they made their carpet. As a throw away they told me they are the only manufacturer who makes 100% wool carpets. They didn't think that was important. I did. So I re-invented their brand as Axminster 100. Launched a massive national trade and consumer campaign shouting Axminster 100 and the MD of the UK's largest retail carpet company told me later it was so concise and easy to understand as 100% of anything is good and the customer would always think so. They sold £10m of extra carpet in the first year!

Here we have loads of detailed threads which go into every single percentage point of everything that has ever been claimed about the holocaust. Interesting but largely irrelevant.

The simple facts are that there was no intent, no capacity, no facility, and no bodies. After that everything gets easy.

I'm in the flow now and could easily make some pretty strong comparisons between the holocaust claims and the people who make them and the rubbish and anger spouted by the loons of the Climate Change agenda. It's very similar. For that subject I have developed a clear message strategy which I use to confront the MMGW Muppets. They run away almost every time.
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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby AstraPlaneti » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:22 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:Sure, they may find an excuse for each problem, but Astra's example shows that this will not be very convincing. The problems will stick in the minds of many listeners.

This is true. It takes a long time for many to come around. Pointing out these amenities is useful but I personally don't like to make it a central argument.

One major obstacle are the eye witnesses, in particular the post war confessions, e.g. Hoess.

Therefore, I believe that discussing the reliability of confessions and explaining false confessions is a major obstacle for opening people's minds.

This is true. People immediately say: "How can it be a lie? What about the documents, testimony, confessions, photos?"

On the documents you can point to all "Final solution" documents defining it as resettlement: viewtopic.php?t=12296

On photos, you can explain the camp situation at the end of the war, and how they are not from "death camps": viewtopic.php?t=12624

On false confessions: viewtopic.php?t=12804

On testimony you can point out that most is "unreliable" according to jewish historians but a good strategy is to specifically adress any testimony provided


This will probably be last contribution to the thread, unless people tell me that they want to pursue the meme strategy further.

I've been a bit long winded in my previous posts. Briefly, my argument is that:
1. The holocaust narrative possessed by the wider public is based on falsehoods and therefore contains internal contradictions
2. Making people aware of these contradictions will encourage them to seek out more information, because they will instinctively try to resolve the paradoxes that we make them aware of.
3. We can reach a very large audience by spreading memes, that clearly explain these contradictions, through social media
4. The most effective decompartmentalisation memes will either explicitly state an internal contradiction within the holocaust narrative or will contain an easily verifiable fact that cannot be explained by the narrative.
5. The most effective memes would have to address the symbols that represent the holocaust narrative in the minds of the wider public (Auschwitz, Anne Frank, Schindler's List, the number "six million" &c.)

So here is an example of a meme that addresses the points you raised in your post. Instead of going into the particulars, which most members of the wider public are unfamiliar with, this meme contains an easily verifiable fact that contradicts the common exterminationist claim that the holocaust is the "best documented genocide in history", namely, what the Judge said during the Irving-Lipstadt trial.

hdot_irving_lipstadt_trial.png

Whenever anyone says "The holocaust is the best documented genocide in history" or "what about all the documents?", all you have to do is post this meme. If anyone replies with "b-but what about all the witnesses?" all you have to do is post some of the images from here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7033

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Hannover » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:07 pm)

Wise & all knowing AstraPlaneti:

Tell us of the successes you've had with your strategy.

Please show us the memes you have actually posted in social media that you advise us about.

And perhaps you can also show us your website or posts at websites you have made. No doubt we have so much to learn from you.

Regards, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Lamprecht » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:57 pm)

Astral: yes that is a good quote. First they call it "the best documented genocide" and then turn around and say there's basically no documents supporting that claim (the few that do are proven forgeries).

Soon I will be releasing an infographic with a collection of those sorts of quotes. If you want, you can help proofread it

Also: Are you good with graphics design? Photoshop? We could use more infographics

Some other suggested links on that topic

quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'
viewtopic.php?t=11013

The missing Hitler orders
https://codoh.com/library/document/885/

Ratio of obvious liars to claimed "eyewitnesses"?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12170
Example admission by Jewish historian and Auschwitz survivor, it's not just "some" but "over half" of testimonies that aren't reliable: download/file.php?id=2167

As for this part:
easily verifiable fact that cannot be explained by the narrative.

I would tread carefully, as I said: many of those simple things, like swimming pools and brothels may be inconsistent with the narrative, but they still have responses to them, they call them "debunkings" but it's just spinning a narrative. The technical arguments are the most convincing, but average people don't care about them so much.

I would suggest this thread below for some examples of those silly "debunkings" I talk about. In some cases, I am forced to agree that the argument is weak. That is why I think we need more infographics, like half of those are like 10 years old and made by one guy, just an illustrator.
Exterminationist Holocaust Graphics Circulating Online
viewtopic.php?t=12399
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby AstraPlaneti » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:58 pm)

Hannover wrote:Wise & all knowing AstraPlaneti:

Tell us of the successes you've had with your strategy.

Please show us the memes you have actually posted in social media that you advise us about.

And perhaps you can also show us your website or posts at websites you have made. No doubt we have so much to learn from you.

Regards, Hannover


You know, if you're not interested you could just say so. You don't have to be sarcastic.

Some examples off the top of my head, of political memes that I have made myself or have helped to develop: The Anne Frank memeball. I contributed twice during the five-stage evolution of that meme with the guy from "They Live" adjusting his sunglasses and the fellow white people montage on the right. A bunch of the "Ay Tone" memes are by me. I was part of the small group of people that got the word "Cuckservative" trending on twitter back in 2015 which led to many news articles. I brought back the WWII poster meme "This man is our friend, he fights for freedom" during the gamergate thing back in 2014 (originally posted on 8ch.net/vivian/). Over the years I have made hundreds of political meme images and have had dozens of those political memes go viral. I'm also outright banned from most of the major social media sites and over the last few years I have lost multiple bank accounts because of this.

The entire reason why the "red-pill" phenomenon started online is because of meme-makers, like myself, doing what I explained in my last post. People started calling the memes we created "red-pills".

I'll take it then that the people here don't like my strategy and just do my own thing from now on.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby AstraPlaneti » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:08 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:
Soon I will be releasing an infographic with a collection of those sorts of quotes. If you want, you can help proofread it

Also: Are you good with graphics design? Photoshop? We could use more infographics

viewtopic.php?t=12399


I'd say that I have photoshop skills that are much better than the average person but not as good as a professional working for a magazine. I'll happy to help out with editing or proofreading if you want me to do anything.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby stinky » 3 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:30 pm)

Thanks for the additional detail borjastick.
It's clear to me that both you & Lamprecht have made substantial contributions to this forum & do much of the current lifting.
Thank you for the contributions!

borjastick, undoubtedly, with your professional experience, you have a good deal to contribute to this topic.

Here we have loads of detailed threads which go into every single percentage point of everything that has ever been claimed about the holocaust. Interesting but largely irrelevant.


To use a fishing analogy - We need effective lures, to get the fish on the hook. Then just reel them in!

The simple facts are that there was no intent, no capacity, no facility, and no bodies. After that everything gets easy.


Yes & yes!

Different approaches may be more effective for different groups of people.
If I'm not mistaken, what we are looking for is the most effective (simplest / cost effective) strategy to reach the broadest range of people.

And in my humble opinion, I think strategies like what Astraplaneti is discussing may be very effective.
I mean, how much does a 'meme' cost?
And if it goes viral? That's pretty good bang for your buck!
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:10 am)

AstraPlaneti wrote:...The entire reason why the "red-pill" phenomenon started online is because of meme-makers, like myself, doing what I explained in my last post. People started calling the memes we created "red-pills".

I'll take it then that the people here don't like my strategy and just do my own thing from now on.


Your contributions are most welcome here.
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:22 am)

hdot_irving_lipstadt_trial.png
Whenever anyone says "The holocaust is the best documented genocide in history" or "what about all the documents?", all you have to do is post this meme. If anyone replies with "b-but what about all the witnesses?" all you have to do is post some of the images from here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7033

True, which brings to my mind that Deborah Lipstadt loves to claim: "The Holocaust has the dubious distinction of being the best documented genocide in the world."

Just add the above quote from the Irving/lipstad trial, and her "cognitive dissonance" or "blatant lies" are easily exposed.
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Lamprecht » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:50 am)

AstraPlaneti wrote:I'll take it then that the people here don't like my strategy and just do my own thing from now on.

No, that is not it. I am just surprised that people truly are being convinced with these sorts of arguments. In this case, I could even play Devil's advocate and argue against them. When it comes to some other points on the story, I can not do that. So it is really just surprising to me, to say the least.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Hektor » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:04 am)

Lamprecht wrote:
AstraPlaneti wrote:I'll take it then that the people here don't like my strategy and just do my own thing from now on.

No, that is not it. I am just surprised that people truly are being convinced with these sorts of arguments. In this case, I could even play Devil's advocate and argue against them. When it comes to some other points on the story, I can not do that. So it is really just surprising to me, to say the least.

One thing that convinces people is what they believe their social environment and authority figures think. That's why Revisionists fight up the hill. And why there are frequent runs for Holocaust education. People are however fed up:

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Lamprecht » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:34 am)

Hektor wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:
AstraPlaneti wrote:I'll take it then that the people here don't like my strategy and just do my own thing from now on.

No, that is not it. I am just surprised that people truly are being convinced with these sorts of arguments. In this case, I could even play Devil's advocate and argue against them. When it comes to some other points on the story, I can not do that. So it is really just surprising to me, to say the least.

One thing that convinces people is what they believe their social environment and authority figures think. That's why Revisionists fight up the hill. And why there are frequent runs for Holocaust education. People are however fed up:

Yes, showing information into people's faces saying they must believe it can cause a serious issue. Actually, it was that very thing which had me first question the official narrative in high school. The more they talk about it, the more some people think about it. If they had only mentioned it in passing in school one or a few times, maybe I would not have become a "denier" or whatever.

Borjastick talked about how his experience with marketing/advertising influenced his way of thinking on this issue. So he has experience selling ideas to people, so naturally we may come to different approaches.

In contrast, I have a background in programming. Things have to make logical sense for it to work, I can't convince a computer program to work just by persuasive arguments. Imagine a computer program that depends on some other library to function, say a web browser that must do many things, like turning images (which are just a bunch of random characters) into viewable graphics made of pixels. If that functionality does not work, and you go to a web page, the images will not display. The entire web page will change until that part is fixed. There is obviously something wrong with that part code, even if the rest of it is sound. And there can also be parts of the code / functions which do not work but nevertheless do not matter so much. Use a 10 year old web browser and load pages, you will see some errors/issues depending on the page, but in other cases there will be no difference.

It's similar with the "Holocaust" story. Sure, the Germans did put jews on trains and send them to camps. And Hitler did not like Jews. These parts which are necessary for the "Holocaust" story are true. But the "Gas chamber" part of the story just doesn't add up. And without it functioning, the whole story crumbles apart. But there are other things that do not seem physically impossible or have serious errors, except when you start looking for physical evidence.

There are also ways to over-complicate things that could be very simple. If you have ever done programming, you know this is true. For one task you could write 5,000 lines of code and it may slow down the computer to do all of that, but maybe it only needs a few hundred and doesn't have that effect. And if someone is arguing that some experts used lengthy, over-complicated methods in a program (where you cannot see the source code) when a better, simpler, more effective method was available calls into question those claims. Imagine a calculator program and someone claims that when you click "Calculate" it goes through every single number in existence until one of them "fits" the answer. Well it's theoretically possible, but would they have actually done this? It's doubtful, in fact, it's absurd.

And that may be why I do not see as much power in these other arguments even though they may work for some people. They do not directly prove the physical impossibility of the "Holocaust" story. A swimming pool or soccer field doesn't mean that people can't be gassed. But a lack of sufficient cyanide residue, ridiculous ventilation, and other absurdities do.

And yes I have pointed out that perhaps the only way to convince certain people is to convince them that everyone else, or all the experts agree with you: viewtopic.php?p=94376#p94376

For these people you can only use them in debates as a way to show the audience the weakness of the story. Some people don't believe whatever they are told by "Experts" and if that's all the other side has, their position appears weak. To others, it appears the most powerful argument of all
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Hannover » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:44 am)

You know, if you're not interested you could just say so. You don't have to be sarcastic.

Some examples off the top of my head, of political memes that I have made myself or have helped to develop: The Anne Frank memeball. I contributed twice during the five-stage evolution of that meme with the guy from "They Live" adjusting his sunglasses and the fellow white people montage on the right. A bunch of the "Ay Tone" memes are by me. I was part of the small group of people that got the word "Cuckservative" trending on twitter back in 2015 which led to many news articles. I brought back the WWII poster meme "This man is our friend, he fights for freedom" during the gamergate thing back in 2014 (originally posted on 8ch.net/vivian/). Over the years I have made hundreds of political meme images and have had dozens of those political memes go viral. I'm also outright banned from most of the major social media sites and over the last few years I have lost multiple bank accounts because of this.

The entire reason why the "red-pill" phenomenon started online is because of meme-makers, like myself, doing what I explained in my last post. People started calling the memes we created "red-pills".

I'll take it then that the people here don't like my strategy and just do my own thing from now on.

I have seen these sorts of things for ages. Not very effective or unique, and they give the impression of hiding behind a vacuous 'expression'. But hey, everybody seems to want their "15 minutes" of fame by saying they were first.

I agree with Lamprecht, these sorts of little antics may seem dramatic and 'fun', but they lack any empirical, scientific arguments which is what really destroys the preposterous 'holocaust' story.

- Hannover

No alleged human remains of millions in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby AstraPlaneti » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:05 am)

No, that is not it. I am just surprised that people truly are being convinced with these sorts of arguments. In this case, I could even play Devil's advocate and argue against them. When it comes to some other points on the story, I can not do that. So it is really just surprising to me, to say the least.

You are making the same mistake that all intellectuals make. You are assuming that all other people are just like yourself. Ron Unz had an article about this phenomenon on his website not too long ago. Have a read through this article and ask yourself: "Will people like this, (i.e. ordinary people,) be persuaded by a technical discussion about Zyklon B or cremation rates?"
http://www.unz.com/akarlin/stupid-people/

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that these sorts of discussions do not have any value. But these sorts of discussions will only convince intellectuals. Ask yourself, what percentage of our population understands chemistry? Even within the wider science community most people don't understand chemistry. If most scientists don't understand chemistry, how many ordinary people do you think do? And if ordinary people don't understand what the hell it is that you're talking about, how can you possibly hope to persuade them that you are right?

If you want to persuade ordinary people then you need to talk about things that ordinary people understand. I'm sure that I will get browbeaten for saying this, but that means (i) no math; (ii) no calculations; (iii) no science that cannot be found in a high school science textbook; and, most importantly, (iv) nothing that is outside of the experience of ordinary people.

The average Joe went to high school and was then forced (against his will) to either watch Schindler's List or read the diary of Anne Frank, and then his teacher made him write an essay as homework, and then he got a lousy mark the next day because he did not care enough about the topic matter to put in any effort. A while later he saw some holocaust documentary on TV or watched Band Of Brothers. Then later he read a slanderous newspaper article about how "evil holocaust deniers" think that the things that he himself saw on TV didn't happen. Average Joe knows nothing about crematoria or Zyklon B and has never even heard of Treblinka or Sobibor. His understanding of the holocaust consists of a very specific narrative that was crafted for him by his high school teachers and by Hollywood.

To persuade average Joe to watch a codoh documentary (or to retweet one of our memes), we need to directly address this particular understanding of the Holocaust in a way that he understands.

I am just surprised that people truly are being convinced with these sorts of arguments.

Average Joe was told that Jews were put into cattle cars, sent to a "death camp" somewhere in Poland, tricked into entering a gas chamber and then murdered. I was told by my own high school teacher that "there was no God in Auschwitz". Ask yourself, how would a person who has been taught these things react upon learning that Auschwitz had a swimming pool, a maternity ward and a post office? How can anybody possibly reconcile these facts with the official exterminationist narrative?

And who is more likely to watch a codoh documentary? The guy who just heard a technical discussion that he doesn't understand or the guy who just realised that he's been lied to about the "Holocaust" his whole life?

We can create internet memes that do this. It's just a matter of understanding the official holocaust narrative well enough to identify these sorts of internal consistencies and contradictions and then creating and spreading memes that make ordinary people aware of them. People who come across these memes will seek out additional information to try and resolve the paradoxes we make them aware of, and they will spread the memes we make through social media to their friends.

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Re: Let's strategize how to be heard about the non-Jewish version of Holocaust

Postby Lamprecht » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:39 am)

AP:
Ask yourself, how would a person who has been taught these things react upon learning that Auschwitz had a swimming pool, a maternity ward and a post office? How can anybody possibly reconcile these facts with the official exterminationist narrative?

Well they have done so, as I have explained. It's one thing if you have the entire floor to yourself. But if a knowledgeable exterminationist comes along, they have explainations.
If you say "How could Auschwitz be a death camp of there was a swimming pool?" And he comes and explains it, those looking at the debate will see a weakness in your argument.

I made this point in regards to false confessions. It's not enough to mention some cases of torture because a "skilled" opponent (skilled in subterfuge and trickery) will bring up all sorts of examples where there is no actual evidence of torture, even if it did happen. But it's not the only reason why someone would give a false confession.

I pointed out a link showing the absolute absurdity in the actual function of the alleged gas chambers. Half a million people were supposedly pulled up a tiny 4x9 foot elevator. Why would they do something so inefficient?

There are a lot of simple arguments to be made, some weak and some stronger. You can bring up the technical subjects as points, and then elaborate on them or not.

Point out that the ventilation system of the alleged gas chamber wasn't even as powerful as the supposed undressing room. Point out also it was designed for a morgue but not a gas chamber (where the gasses are lighter than air, compared to putrid gasses from a mortuary cellar which are heavier). And the tiny elevator is just more silliness for the design.

I may have posted a thread showing crematoria were destroyed in many camps, but not gas chambers. How does that make sense?

A lot of points can be made without needing lots of math, i just think the amenities point is not so strong.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...


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