More document forgeries

[Snafu]

Don't want to be fuzzy but I read the date as Wednesday, 2 March 1943.

[Peter H]

Malle's assertion that Vergasungskeller is translated not correctly as gassing cellar is also refuted by another Auschwitz document, where Vergasung is clearly used in Auschwitz in the context of Zyklon-B gassing and nothing else:

Code: Select all

Konzentrationslager Auschwitz          Auschwitz, den 12. August 1942
        Kommanantur                                 [handwritten]


                       S o n d e r b e f e h l.

       
Ein heute mit leichten Vergiftungserscheinungen durch
Blausäure aufgetretener Krankheitsfall gibt Veranlassung,
allen an Vergasungen [!!!] Beteiligten und allen übrigen SS-
Angehörigen bekanntzugeben, daß insbesondere beim Öffnen
der vergasten Räume von SS-Angehörigen ohne Maske wenigs-
tens 5 Stunden hindurch ein Abstand von 15 Metern von
der Kammer gewahrt werden muß. Hierbei ist besonders auf
die Windrichtung zu achten.
Das jetzt verwendete Gas enthält weniger beigesetzte
Geruchstoffe und ist daher besonders gefährlich.
Der SS-Standortarzt Auschwitz lehnt die Verantwortung für
eintretende Unglücksfälle in den den Fällen ab, bei denen
von SS-Angehörigen diese Richtlinien nicht eingehalten
werden.
       
                              gez.: H Ö ß
                    SS-Obersturmbannführer und Kommandant.




F.d.R.:
  [Unterschrift Mulka]
SS-Hauptsturmführer und Adjutant.

Verteiler:

7-Stück an SS-T-Stuba.         je 1 Stück an:
7   "    " Verwaltung          SS-Revier,HWL,DAW.Funkst.
3   "    " Ablage              Fernschreibestelle
2   "    " Bauleitung          Telefonvermittlung
2   "    " Polit.Abt.          SS-Kantinengemeinschaft
1   "    " 9./SS-T-Stuba.      Fahrbereitschaft
1   "    " Landwirtschaft      Arbeitseinsatz KL
1   "    " Reitstall           Abteilung IV
1   "    " Schutzhaftlager     Außendienststelle des
1   "    " FKL.                Amtes V.I
1   "    " Gerichtsoffizier    Sonderkommando Zeppelin.
1   "    " Personalabteilung
1   "    " Haus der Waffen-SS
         


"The Leichenkellers of Krema II and III, at least, were equipped with extractor fans".

The document above says: "daß insbesondere beim Öffnen
der vergasten Räume von SS-Angehörigen ohne Maske wenigs-
tens 5 Stunden hindurch ein Abstand von 15 Metern von
der Kammer gewahrt werden muß. Hierbei ist besonders auf
die Windrichtung zu achten".

That means that protection mesures must be taken (for personel without gas masks) under five hours after the gassed rooms have been opened, in a distance of fifteen meters around the room, and that attention must be paid particulary to the wind direction.

To me it says that doors were opened to ventilate the gass out of the rooms and NOT that fans were used.

(sorry for my bad english)

[Peter H]

Don't want to be fuzzy but I read the date as Wednesday, 2 March 1943.

No, it says Diensttag = Tuesday.

[Peter H]

To me it says that doors were opened to ventilate the gass out of the rooms and NOT that fans were used.

So, the document talks about gaschambers above ground, delousing chambers most probably.

[kk]

http://www.vho.org/VffG/2003/3/Mattogno357-365.html

Did the german speaking members of this Forum didn't read this?
I wonder, what should be written more to convince the exterminationists?

[Hektor]

Malle's assertion that Vergasungskeller is translated not correctly as gassing cellar is also refuted by another Auschwitz document, where Vergasung is clearly used in Auschwitz in the context of Zyklon-B gassing and nothing else:

Code: Select all

Konzentrationslager Auschwitz          Auschwitz, den 12. August 1942
        Kommanantur                                 [handwritten]


                       S o n d e r b e f e h l.

       
Ein heute mit leichten Vergiftungserscheinungen durch
Blausäure aufgetretener Krankheitsfall gibt Veranlassung,
allen an Vergasungen [!!!] Beteiligten und allen übrigen SS-
Angehörigen bekanntzugeben, daß insbesondere beim Öffnen
der [b][color=red]vergasten Räume[/color][/b] von SS-Angehörigen ohne Maske wenigs-
tens 5 Stunden hindurch ein Abstand von 15 Metern von
der Kammer gewahrt werden muß. Hierbei ist besonders auf
die Windrichtung zu achten.
Das jetzt verwendete Gas enthält weniger beigesetzte
Geruchstoffe und ist daher besonders gefährlich.
Der SS-Standortarzt Auschwitz lehnt die Verantwortung für
eintretende Unglücksfälle in den den Fällen ab, bei denen
von SS-Angehörigen diese Richtlinien nicht eingehalten
werden.
       
                              gez.: H Ö ß
                    SS-Obersturmbannführer und Kommandant.

[...]

"The Leichenkellers of Krema II and III, at least, were equipped with extractor fans".

The document above says: "daß insbesondere beim Öffnen
der vergasten Räume von SS-Angehörigen ohne Maske wenigs-
tens 5 Stunden hindurch ein Abstand von 15 Metern von
der Kammer gewahrt werden muß. Hierbei ist besonders auf
die Windrichtung zu achten".
....

"vergasten Räume" - Wouldn't the correct German be "begasten Räume"?!

[ClaudiaRothenbach]

"vergasten Räume" - Wouldn't the correct German be "begasten Räume"?!

Yes, that is true.

"Vergasen" normally means to change the state of aggregation of a substance from solid/liquid to gaseous. For example every gasoline engine has a "Vergaser" bacause fuel (liquid) is made a gas before entering the cylindre.

At least since WWII "vergasen" also means to kill somebody with gas.

But these rooms (see above) were nor transferred into the gas phase neither kiled.

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden
betonieren im[sic!] Gasskammer[sic!]"

]

This is a forgery too, unless we are willing to believe not only that the person writing the document could not spell "Gaskammer", but also got the gender wrong.

Document 501-ps (both versions) are posted in graphic form at www.cwporter.com/501ps.htm.

See also www.cwporter.com/c2.htm
www.cwporter.com/501.htm

and
www.cwporter.com/letter12.htm

On Pressac, see www.cwporter.com/undocs.htm (or undoc.htm, I forget which).

The same site reproduces a lot of other forgeries as well, along with translations and discussions of the documentary procedures involved.

Whether the first document mentioned, with the 6/13 date, is a forgery, I don't know, but the date doesn't seem correct to me. Shouldn't it be 13/6/? Unless it is the 6th day of the 13th month. If it's 6/11 it would be 6 November. Or am I mistaken?

[Germania]

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden
betonieren im[sic!] Gasskammer[sic!]"

]

This is a forgery too, unless we are willing to believe not only that the person writing the document could not spell "Gaskammer", but also got the gender wrong.

yes we should believe this,that the person who wrote the document (and concreted floor in the gaschamber)was a foreign worker and that German wasnt his first language.

The same site reproduces a lot of other forgeries as well

I dont see any frankly.

[Bergmann]

yes we should believe this,that the person who wrote the document (and concreted floor in the gaschamber)was a foreign worker and that German wasnt his first language.

But you have to admit that the German sentence in the foreman’s time sheet does sound a bit odd.

Having said that, I believe that the document in question here seems to be legitimate.

See also my comment in the thread "Now you see it, now you don't. The disappearing gas-chamber".
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3614

[Hannover]

Germania says:

yes we should believe this, that the person who wrote the document (and concreted floor in the gaschamber) was a foreign worker and that German wasnt his first language.

But the story says that the Germans went to great lengths to hide their 'secret extermination program'. It makes zero sense that they would allow a 'foreign worker' access to the alleged 'gas chambers', then allow that foreign worker to write alleged incriminating documents about this supposed secret, AND THEN allow this alleged incriminating document to fall into others hands ... IF the homicidal gas chambers story was true.

It makes perfect sense if the alleged homicidal gas chambers were merely delousing chambers.

Once again, the contortions and acrobatics that the 'Holocaust' Industry must resort to are simply bizarre. Due to a multitude of reasons (all covered at this forum), the 'gas chambers' as alleged could not have possibly worked the way that is claimed.

- Hannover

[ClaudiaRothenbach]

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden
betonieren im[sic!] Gasskammer[sic!]"

This is a forgery too, unless we are willing to believe not only that the person writing the document could not spell "Gaskammer", but also got the gender wrong.

A real good explanation. Haha!

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden
betonieren" makes sense. The rest is not only wrong but could have been easily added. Or: A fake could only be done wrong -

The correct fragment would be:

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden in der Gaskammer betonieren"

But this correct version of the fragment is not so easy to fake because Gasskammer [sic!] has to stand between "Fußboden" and "betonieren"

So there are in fact three errors:
- one gender error with subsequent error (im instead of in der)
- one spelling error (Gasskammer)
- one syntax error

Any serious historican would have to have doubt.
It is easy to analyse the ink chemically (see Hitler Tagebücher).

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden
betonieren im[sic!] Gasskammer[sic!]"

This is a forgery too, unless we are willing to believe not only that the person writing the document could not spell "Gaskammer", but also got the gender wrong.

A real good explanation. Haha!

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden
betonieren" makes sense. The rest is not only wrong but could have been easily added. Or: A fake could only be done wrong -

The correct fragment would be:

"Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden in der Gaskammer betonieren"

But this correct version of the fragment is not so easy to fake because Gasskammer [sic!] has to stand between "Fußboden" and "betonieren"

So there are in fact three errors:
- one gender error with subsequent error (im instead of in der)
- one spelling error (Gasskammer)
- one syntax error

Any serious historican would have to have doubt.
It is easy to analyse the ink chemically (see Hitler Tagebücher).

I forgot to say that the document is a microfilm copy and this notation is handwritten in its entirety. It's in Pressac. Whether the original is available, I don't pretend to know. So presumably the entire phrase was added later, to an ordinary work sheet.

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

I made a mistake. I don't recognize this document. There is another document, a worksheet, a microfilm copy (probably like the one shown), bearing the same notation: Fußboden betonieren... im Gasskammer.
But it's not the same document. Curiouser and curiouser. Not only do they make a stupid mistake, but on two different documents. The handwriting looks roughly similar but it is not the same document. The one I'm thinking of is in Pressac someplace.