We hit the jackpot! / Jasenovac, Croatia lie exposed

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We hit the jackpot! / Jasenovac, Croatia lie exposed

Postby Vukdar » 1 year 9 months ago (Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:47 pm)

What is going on is obvious. They are scarred that more and more people will question whole story about Holocaust, so they try to silence those that are discrediting it. Ivo Goldstein is considered to be leading historian in Croatia when Holocaust is in question. Jerusalem Post is not attacking just anybody, they are attacking one of their own.

Also, it is really important that they are saying that the number of victims (in camp Jasenovac) was never scientifically determined, which means that there is need to do that. What they fail to realize is that it is not done in Auschwitz either, and that their stories are even more preposterous than those of Ivo Goldstein.

Right now this is huge news in Croatia. I am even seeing some comments on Facebook saying how in 20 years whole world will laugh at Holocaust story.

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/this-disgra ... now-676707

[Article text added by Moderator]
This disgraceful mocking of the Holocaust needs to stop now

In this era of hyper-antisemitism and a world of increasing hatred of all things Jewish, it’s high time that everyone stopped collaborating with malign actors to mock the Holocaust.
By DAVID GOLDMAN AUGUST 14, 2021 16:43

Image
THE MASSIVE cemetery-like Holocaust Memorial in Berlin. (photo credit: BARRY DAVIS)

When on a hot and balmy June weekend in 2018, as Dr. Ivo Goldstein was being interviewed for Croatia’s popular Sunday at 2 TV show on the increasingly problematic Jasenovac concentration camp, little did he know the maelstrom he would ignite.
Some 28 minutes into the interview, Goldstein was asked by the host: “Many have commented on the lack of any forensic evidence from this particular camp. Can you explain why this is the case?”

That’s when Goldstein, one of the most respected historians in the Balkans, dropped his bombshell. “…this is because in April 1945, Hitler flew special machines to Jasenovac. These machines were used to dissolve the bones that were left…,” he said.
At a time when antisemitism is growing exponentially with one in four American millennials believing the Holocaust was faked while just over half of Germans believe that Jews overplay the Holocaust, Goldstein’s claim that as Berlin was being pummeled into dust by Russian artillery, Adolf Hitler found time to fly a hitherto unheard-of machine into some Balkan boondoggle in order to “dissolve” human bones was not only tin-foil hat fantasy, but the last thing that Jews need right now.
More to the point, why allow the contamination of Holocaust history with a place that cannot provide any independent forensic evidence past a few thousand victims and that has an ever-increasing – including in 2021 – victim list that has repeatedly been proven to have been doctored?
Furthermore, why did groups like Yad Vashem and the US Holocaust Museum for decades look the other way as the Jasenovac Memorial Site stole pictures from Treblinka, Ukraine, Poland and elsewhere in order to bolster its inflated claims? And why do these organizations to this day continue to substantiate ex-Yugoslavia’s claims of an astronomical World War II death toll, despite three of its own official population censuses showing otherwise?

Located in Croatia about 100 kilometers south of the capital Zagreb, Jasenovac was established by the collaborationist Ustashi in August 1941. According to most sources, about 85% of inmates were Serbs, Roma, Bosnians and Croats, while the remaining 15% being Jews. In 1947-48 Yugoslavia’s forensic examination of the camp and surrounding county found that all up, between 2,500 and 4,500 were killed in the camp.
In 1980, a cash-strapped Yugoslavia rebranded Jasenovac as the “Auschwitz of the Balkans,” in a cynical attempt to try and extort money out of West Germany, with the camps’ death toll subsequently being pumped up to 59,000, then 72,000, 77,000, 99,000, 250,000 and all the way up to 800,000 victims, like some macabre game of “genocide bingo.”
However, not only could Belgrade not provide any physical evidence to back up these newly inflated numbers, rather it disgracefully announced that a camp with less than 4,500 proven (mainly non-Jewish) victims was now equal to Auschwitz, the site of the ghastly murder of nearly 1.5 million people, most of them Jews.

If there was ever a clear case of antisemitism and self-hatred – especially by those Jewish historians who have allowed the history of Holocaust to become hijacked for what is basically a Balkan territorial dispute – this was it.
It goes without saying that the growing legions of Holocaust-deniers around the world would love nothing more than to be helped in their quest to dent the veracity of the most tragic and evil event of the 20th century.

Historians have long commented how to the West, Serbia promotes Jasenovac as part of the Jewish Holocaust, but in the Balkans, Jews have been removed from the Holocaust altogether and replaced with Serbs.
As Dr. Lea David, professor of Holocaust Studies at the University of Haifa noted, “The Serbian political elite then hijacked the images and symbols of the Holocaust in order to equate Serbian victims with Jewish victims, and promote Serbian righteous victimhood as enduring throughout the 1990s wars.

“Having established Serbs as victims of the Holocaust, the Serbian government then moved to sideline the roles of Serbian Communist partisan fighters and to rehabilitate quisling Chetnik members and other right-wing figures,” she says.
As the University of Otago’s David McDonald also noted in Globalizing the Holocaust: A Jewish “Useable Past” in Serbian Nationalism: “Holocaust imagery pushed the envelope, allowing Serbian nationalist goals to gain wider, more universal appeal. It could resonate with domestic Serbs and those in the Diaspora, as well as with Jews and non-Jews... where myths of Serbian and Jewish suffering were interwoven, providing a new series of national myths.”

As for the US Holocaust Museum, on its website, it admits “Determining the number of victims… for Jasenovac is highly problematic, due to the destruction of many relevant documents, the long-term inaccessibility to independent scholars of those documents that survived…”
So why quote figures if they are “highly problematic,” especially considering the museum is aware Yad Vashem throughout the 1990s repeatedly tried obtaining the original Jasenovac documents from Serbia but has been flat-out refused to this day? Just as puzzling was Yugoslavia’s decades-old assertion that more victims’ remains are “to be discovered,” yet during its 47-year rule of the site, it never bothered once to try and locate these mysterious “missing” remains.

Those who have conflated the only wartime concentration camp without any verifiable data with scientifically proven Holocaust facts have done immeasurable harm to Jewish history.
In this era of hyper-antisemitism and a world of increasing hatred of all things Jewish, it’s high time that everyone – especially Jews – stopped collaborating with malign actors to mock the Holocaust.
The author is an Australian writer and freelance journalist and director of the thegoldmanreport.org, a site dedicated to exposing Nazi collaborators and neo-Nazis living Down Under.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby borjastick » 1 year 9 months ago (Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:48 am)

I love the new term of such exaggeration and hyperbole hyper-antisemitism.

Here's the reality. After decades of bowing down to the jewish holocaust and the extortion that accompanied it the truth is becoming clear to millions of people and also those politicians and influencers in life today. The internet and instant flow of info has caught these shysters and charlatans out, at last.

The claims of the holocaust are no longer credible and they see this open discussion and criticism of the holocaust as 'hyper-antisemitism' in a desperate move to garner what little support they can from those in charge of law making and enforcement of existing laws around the world.

The GIG IS UP. The house of cards is tumbling.

It was always going to happen. Science is unstoppable. The holocaust and its supporters such as the state of israel are under the spotlight like never before.

As they say 'you can't polish a turd'.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Merlin300 » 1 year 9 months ago (Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:28 pm)

Vukdar wrote:What is going on is obvious. They are scarred that more and more people will question whole story about Holocaust, so they try to silence those that are discrediting it. Ivo Goldstein is considered to be leading historian in Croatia when Holocaust is in question. Jerusalem Post is not attacking just anybody, they are attacking one of their own.

Also, it is really important that they are saying that the number of victims (in camp Jasenovac) was never scientifically determined, which means that there is need to do that. What they fail to realize is that it is not done in Auschwitz either, and that their stories are even more preposterous than those of Ivo Goldstein.

Right now this is huge news in Croatia. I am even seeing some comments on Facebook saying how in 20 years whole world will laugh at Holocaust story.

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/this-disgra ... now-676707

[Article text added by Moderator]


Thank you Moderator for posting the Article text. I am only getting Error 404.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Moderator » 1 year 9 months ago (Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:34 am)

Merlin:
Thank you Moderator for posting the Article text. I am only getting Error 404.

It worked earlier, but not now for me either.
No doubt they have been alerted that CODOH is now all over their nonsense and have changed the address.
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Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby cold beer » 1 year 9 months ago (Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:20 am)

What a bizarre article. Criticizing the inflated numbers at Jasenovac on the basis that the claimed death tolls are devoid of proof while at the same time reiterating the death toll at Auschwitz which likewise is devoid of proof! And anyone reading the article knows that the JP is doing so because the claimed victims are for the most part non-Jews, which infringes on their monopoly.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Vukdar » 1 year 9 months ago (Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:59 am)

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/shame-on- ... ion-676992

It gets even more bizzare. They removed article, and instead they posted this response to that article. Trying to fix damage and what reactions it created in public.

Wait till you read this.

From article text:
"Following the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific, anti-civilization and shameful logic which in this revisionist article denies the number of victims in Jasenovac solely on the grounds that there are no adequate forensic data (except for 2,500 to 4,500 victims, as the author falsely claims), we could ask a question as to whether it is possible to deny in the same way the number of 1,200,000 to 1,500,000 killed in Auschwitz since there is no forensic evidence for that claim either?"

This is hilarious. I've never seen anything like this. It's like they shoot their own foot twice.

[full text added by Moderator]
Shame on those who seek to revise history of the Holocaust - opinion

The one and only disgraceful mockery is that the author of this revisionist article tries to deny this tragic historical fact.
By Dejan Ristic AUGUST 17, 2021 20:50

Image
A MONUMENT TO honor the victims of the Jasenovac camp.
(photo credit: ANTONIO BRONIC/ REUTERS)

Museum of Genocide Victims, a national cultural institution of the Republic of Serbia that researches and nurtures the memory of victims of genocide committed against Serbs in World War II, victims of the Holocaust and other victims of Nazism and Fascism, expresses astonishment and sends a public protest to your daily newspaper.
Despite its carefully created reputation as a relevant daily, The Jerusalem Post published just before the sad 80th anniversary of the establishment of the concentration and death camp in Jasenovac (Croatia) – one of the most monstrous execution sites in all of Europe during the Second World War which functioned within the framework of the puppet Independent State of Croatia – a pseudo-scientific and revisionist text by journalist David Goldman.

With the text entitled: “This disgraceful mocking of the Holocaust needs to stop immediately,” an author, without any professional qualifications and completely unknown to the international scientific community, became involved in the ongoing debate on the phenomenon of Holocaust distortion as a phenomenon on a global scale.
And that’s where almost everything positive in this article ends.

Using a series of inaccurate statements and semi-information with only a few sentences, the author tried to make meaningless 76 years of continuous research, both by experts and institutions of Yugoslavia – later Serbia and Croatia – as well as institutions such as Yad Vashem and the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM).

The system of concentration and death camps in Jasenovac, founded and managed by the Independent State of Croatia, without the influence of Nazi Germany, was taken as an example of the mentioned distortion.
The only thing that is stated correctly refers to the geographical position of Jasenovac and the percentage share of Jews in human losses (15%).
And that is where the factual and historical reliability of the claims presented in the article ends.
In a series of problematic information contained in that revisionist review, we first point to the statement about forensic research conducted in Yugoslavia, which allegedly determined that the total number of Jasenovac victims was between 2,500 and 4,500, which is an absolute and shameful untruth.

The Museum of Genocide Victims, above all, points out that forensic research cannot yield results in the number of victims which ranges in a huge range from “from – to”.
Above all, no exhumations were performed in 1947 and 1948.
During 1946, four graves near the Uskocka forests were excavated in which 967 remains were found (311 men, 467 women and 189 children).

Based on the further research, it was estimated that there were about a thousand killed in the tomb near the Strug Forest, but experts concluded that due to the position and the intertwining of the victims as well as the condition of the bodies, it was not possible to perform a completely precise investigation.
Thus, there is no forensic examination that resulted in data on 2,500 to 4,500 Jasenovac victims, conducted during 1947 and 1948, as stated in this revisionist text.

It is also indicative that this article misses the opportunity to mention the actual forensic research conducted during 1964 by a commission of experts composed of Alojz Šercelj, Vida Brodar, Anton Pogacnik and Srboljub Živanovic. This research resulted in the discovery of the remains of a total of 284 victims in 7 probes (of which 197 were in one grave).

This extremely revisionist article also mentions various established and/or estimated numbers of people killed in the system of the concentration and death camp in Jasenovac, as follows: 59,000 (census of victims of World War II conducted in 1964), 72,000 and 77,000, which at one point represented an achieved result of supplementing the number of victims based on the revision of the already mentioned census from 1964 which was conducted by the Museum of Genocide Victims.

The Museum of Genocide Victims uses this opportunity to emphasize that its databases contain data on almost 90,000 identified victims of the Jasenovac concentration and death camp system which currently represents only the smallest possible, but not the final number of all those killed at that execution site.

As the research of the experts of the Museum of Genocide Victims – which is conducted according to the same methodology that has been done for decades in Yad Vashem – continues, it is to be expected that the number of identified Jasenovac victims will be corrected in the coming years. The estimated total number of Jasenovac victims is, unfortunately, far higher than the one that historical science will ever be able to identify with the precise data.
The same revisionist text also mentions the number of 99,000 victims of the system of the concentration and death camp in Jasenovac which at one time was an estimation of the USHMM, but also a scientifically completely unknown estimation of about 250,000 victims. Finally, the same text contains some alleged number of 800,000 killed at all Jasenovac execution sites.

The Museum of Genocide Victims possesses no information that Yad Vashem demanded “original documents from Jasenovac” from the Republic of Serbia during the last decade of the previous century since historical science does not know that there is a significant corpus of material other than the one Antun Miletić has already published in four books (three of which as early as the late 1980s).
It is also possible that this revisionist-intoned article refers to the evacuated museum material from the Jasenovac Memorial Centre (Republic of Croatia) which was located in Bosanska Dubica (Bosnia and Herzegovina) during the 1990s.
However, that is a question to which some others can and should give, but not the Republic of Serbia.

Moreover, in 1997, the Museum of Genocide Victims submitted to Yad Vashem a list with the names of 52,500 Jews killed in Yugoslavia during World War II (of whom 10,500 lost their lives in Jasenovac), which is included in the official Yad Vashem list of Holocaust victims.
Following the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific, anti-civilization and shameful logic which in this revisionist article denies the number of victims in Jasenovac solely on the grounds that there are no adequate forensic data (except for 2,500 to 4,500 victims, as the author falsely claims), we could ask a question as to whether it is possible to deny in the same way the number of 1,200,000 to 1,500,000 killed in Auschwitz since there is no forensic evidence for that claim either?

It would be interesting if the author of this revisionist text, denying the number of victims in Jasenovac, answered the question regarding where 30,000 Jews who lived within the territory of the Independent State of Croatia came from?
The Museum of Genocide Victims reminds that, according to available data, about 7,500 of them were killed in German concentration camps.
What happened to the remaining 22,500 of them?
Where did they “disappear” to?
Through many years of research by its experts, the Museum of Genocide Victims has shown that between 18,000 and 19,000 Jews from the Independent State of Croatia were killed in the Jasenovac concentration and death camp system, and that their share in total civilian casualties was many times higher than their population (10.23 times higher).

Experts from the Museum of Genocide Victims continuously clearly separate the suffering in the Holocaust victims from the victims of the genocide committed against the Serbian people on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia.
The research of the Museum of Genocide Victims continuously emphasizes that the loss of Jews in the concentration and death camp system in Jasenovac, given the representation in the population, was realistically 13 times greater than the loss of Serbs in the camp, which refutes the absurd claim that “Serbia is trying to oust Jews from the Holocaust and replace them with Serbs.”

Pointing out only the most obvious untruths presented in the article published in the Post, the Museum of Genocide Victims points out historical facts, but at the same time calls on everyone to treat the victims of the Second World War with full responsibility and reverence.
Museum of Genocide Victims points out that, among numerous others, even three presidents of the Republic of Croatia publicly stated that a genocide committed against the Serbs had been performed by the state system of the Independent State of Croatia between 1941 and 1945.
Having that in mind, the one and only disgraceful mockery is that the author of this revisionist article tries to deny this tragic historical fact.
The Museum of Genocide Victims publicly and resolutely rejects and condemns the untrue claims contained in the above mentioned revisionist article which attacks historical truth and dignified memory of the victims of World War II and request from you to publish this reaction so that The Post’s readers can be aware of what really happened in Jasenovac, one of the largest and most monstrous execution sites in all of Europe during the Second World War.

The writer is a historian and the acting director of the Museum of Genocide Victims in Belgrade.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby cold beer » 1 year 9 months ago (Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:39 am)

Vukdar wrote:https://www.jpost.com/opinion/shame-on-those-who-seek-to-revise-history-of-the-holocaust-opinion-676992

It gets even more bizzare. They removed article, and instead they posted this response to that article. Trying to fix damage and what reactions it created in public.

Wait till you read this.

It says:

"Following the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific, anti-civilization and shameful logic which in this revisionist article denies the number of victims in Jasenovac solely on the grounds that there are no adequate forensic data (except for 2,500 to 4,500 victims, as the author falsely claims), we could ask a question as to whether it is possible to deny in the same way the number of 1,200,000 to 1,500,000 killed in Auschwitz since there is no forensic evidence for that claim either?"

This is hilarious. I've never seen anything like this. It's like they shoot in their own foot twice.


We can see from these articles that both camps selectively view western standards of evidence for prosecution to be "ridiculous, pseudo-scientific, anti-civilization and shameful logic"

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Breker » 1 year 9 months ago (Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:41 am)

article says:
It is also indicative that this article misses the opportunity to mention the actual forensic research conducted during 1964 by a commission of experts composed of Alojz Šercelj, Vida Brodar, Anton Pogacnik and Srboljub Živanovic. This research resulted in the discovery of the remains of a total of 284 victims in 7 probes (of which 197 were in one grave).

Another shot in the foot.
There is no proof of that either, notice that we see no verifiable photos.
Reminds me of the equally fraudulent Andrzej Kola "excavations".
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Merlin300 » 1 year 9 months ago (Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:55 pm)

Breker wrote:article says:
It is also indicative that this article misses the opportunity to mention the actual forensic research conducted during 1964 by a commission of experts composed of Alojz Šercelj, Vida Brodar, Anton Pogacnik and Srboljub Živanovic. This research resulted in the discovery of the remains of a total of 284 victims in 7 probes (of which 197 were in one grave).

Another shot in the foot.
There is no proof of that either, notice that we see no verifiable photos.
Reminds me of the equally fraudulent Andrzej Kola "excavations".
B.


From Baba Yar to Jasenovac, there is no significant forensic evidence. The remaining argument of the Believers is, "well, explain where
they went."

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Hannover » 1 year 9 months ago (Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:51 am)

Merlin300 wrote:From Baba Yar to Jasenovac, there is no significant forensic evidence. The remaining argument of the Believers is, "well, explain where they went."

LOL.
They themselves have said: 'they went to enormous & specifically known mass graves' ... which do not exist as has easily been demonstrated.

Imagine making claims of "6M Jews & 5M others', without a shred of proof. That 11M total is equal to the city of London.
see:
Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps? / 'Where did they go?'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13204

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: We hit the jackpot! / Jasenovac, Croatia lie exposed

Postby Archie » 1 year 8 months ago (Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:30 pm)

Dalton has an article on this in Occidental Observer.

https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2021/09/26/jasenovac-the-latest-holocaust-embarrassment/

This is quite an amusing blunder. It's things like this that make me confident that we will win (eventually).

full text added by Moderator:
Jasenovac: The Latest Holocaust Embarrassment

September 26, 2021/43 Comments/in Featured Articles /by Thomas Dalton, Ph.D.

Funny how it goes with the Holocaust story: time and again, an ugly bit of truth slips out. When that happens, yet one more piece of the charade comes to light, for all to see. For a brief moment, one more embarrassing truth catches the public eye, only to quickly be cast into the depths of the memory hole. Only through diligence, hard work, and a bit of luck do such things come to assume a greater significance.

This time, sharp eyes caught the slip-up. The issue in question is an obscure World War II concentration camp in present-day Croatia, by the name of Jasenovac. The camp—which operated for around three and a half years, from mid-1941 until war’s end—is, by any reasonable accounting, all but irrelevant to the Holocaust story. Even according to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, only some “12,000 to 20,000 Jews” died there, which means that the camp accounts for, at best, 0.33% of the presumed Jewish death toll of 6 million. Were it not for a recent blunder by the Jerusalem Post, I would likely never have spent a moment on the topic. In the grand Holocaust narrative, there are much larger fish to fry. But the latest gaff gives us a chance to shine a light on the on-going fraud that is the Holocaust. When the Jews themselves put a foot in their collective mouths, we should make the most of it.

The subject at hand is an article that briefly appeared on the Post website, titled “This disgraceful mocking of the Holocaust needs to stop now” (now available here; the original URL has been deleted). Written by an Australian journalist named David Goldman, the short essay obsesses over a three-year-old Croatian television interview in which historian and Croatian Jew Ivo Goldstein expounds on the “increasingly problematic” camp at Jasenovac. The interview, from 2018, included this question of Goldstein: “Many have commented on the lack of forensic evidence from this particular camp. Can you explain why this is the case?” (meaning, why there is an absence of evidence). Goldstein then dropped his “bombshell” reply: “Because in April 1945, Hitler flew in special machines to Jasenovac. These machines were used to dissolve the bones that were left.”

Several points here: One, in all of Holocaust historiography, there is no actual or even rumored documentation of any such “bone dissolving machines.” There were alleged bone crushers, driven by diesel engines; here is one alleged photo. But these have been shown to be fraudulent.[1] The Nazis also allegedly used chlorinated lime (quicklime) to try to decompose corpses at Treblinka and Belzec, but this chemical, when used, only reduces the odor; it does nothing to hasten decomposition. “Dissolving,” especially for bones, implies the use of acid or some other strong chemical process, but again, such claims are completely unknown in the literature. Hence Goldman rightly refers to these as “hitherto unheard-of machines.” Perhaps there was some confusion on Goldstein’s part, and he actually meant ‘crushing,’ not ‘dissolving.’ But again, we have no reliable evidence that such crushing machines were ever used by the Germans.

Two, this idea seems to be a pure invention by Goldstein to explain away a troublesome fact, namely, lack of forensic evidence at Jasenovac—meaning any corpses, ash, or other human remains. And by “pure invention,” I mean an outright lie. By all accounts, Goldstein lied to cover up a critical and damning fact. Anyone who has studied the Holocaust story knows that such lies are legion.[2]

Three, the whole premise that the Germans, in the final throes of defeat, would take the trouble to send anything like “bone dissolving machines” to an obscure camp in Croatia is patently absurd, as Goldman points out. The whole idea is nonsense.

Perhaps most significantly, this little episode brings to mind similar claims about the more important camps like Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Belzec. Lacking physical evidence, how can we justify claims of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or a million Holocaust victims at these camps? For the journalist Goldman, however, the lies about Jasenovac only “contaminate” the larger Holocaust story, which he accepts unquestioningly. As he says, “Why allow the contamination of Holocaust history with a place [Jasenovac] that cannot provide any independent forensic evidence past a few thousand victims, and that has an ever-increasing—including in 2021—victim list that has been repeatedly proven to have been doctored?” Indeed; and we can ask the same question about virtually all of the conventional Holocaust sites. The implications are dire for Jews everywhere.

A Short Course on Jasenovac

It is worthwhile taking a moment to review the conventional history of this camp, given the many lessons it offers here. It is undisputed that Jasenovac was established under the auspices of the Nazi-aligned government of occupied Croatia known as the Ustasa (or Ustase, or Ustashi). The camp was constructed in August 1941, not long after Hitler began his invasion of the Soviet Union. It consisted of five separate facilities, two of which were short-lived, but the other three—Ciglana, Kozara, and Stara Gradiska—operated right until the virtual end of the war in April 1945. The purpose of the camp is disputed; some claim it was strictly a detention and work camp, whereas others declare it to be an extermination center on par with the worst camps of Poland. By all accounts, several thousand people died there—mostly Serbs, but also Jews, Roma, and scattered numbers of Muslims and Croatian political enemies.

The numbers of victims, and especially the numbers of Jews, are the main points of contention. Like most Holocaust camps and death sites, the range of estimates is vast. Individuals sympathetic to the Ustasa regime, like former president Franjo Tudjman, regularly gave figures of just 3,000 to 4,000 total. Such numbers date back to the first forensic examinations of the camp in 1947. But by the 1970s and 1980s, the numbers were rising; the 1990 Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (p. 189) claimed, without evidence, that around 300,000 bodies were discovered and exhumed there.

Yet even this number was insufficient for our Holocaust propagandists. One recent article notes that, over past decades, “historians have estimated that between 700,000 and 1,000,000 people were killed at Jasenovac.” Serbian publications of the 1990s cited figures as high as 1.2 million.[3] Of these, around 15% are claimed to have been Jews—meaning, potentially 100,000 to 150,000. At that upper estimate, this would put Jasenovac well ahead of Majdanek in terms of Jewish death toll, and approaching the status of a Sobibor. If, on the other hand, Jews were 15% of, say, 3,000 fatalities, it would mean an utterly inconsequential 400 or 500 deaths. Much is at stake.

Today, though, the more commonly accepted estimates are much closer to the low end than the high. The current Croatian government seems to accept a figure of 83,000 total deaths. The US Holocaust Memorial Museum claims that “the Ustasa regime murdered between 77,000 and 99,000 people in Jasenovac between 1941 and 1945.” Of these, some 12,000 to 20,000 are claimed to have been Jews. Still, the USHMM is not very sanguine about their own estimates:

Determining the number of victims for…Jasenovac is highly problematic, due to the destruction of many relevant documents, the long-term inaccessibility to independent scholars of those documents that survived, and the ideological agendas of postwar partisan scholarship and journalism, which has been and remains influenced by ethnic tension, religious prejudice, and ideological conflict. The estimates offered here are based on the work of several historians who have used census records as well as whatever documentation was available in German, Croat, and other archives in the former Yugoslavia and elsewhere.

As I noted above, even 20,000 Jewish deaths are largely irrelevant to the broader Holocaust narrative.

A Rebuttal

Goldman’s short essay drew a quick and furious response from Dejan Ristic, the acting director of the Serbian Museum of Genocide Victims. It was published in the Jerusalem Post just two days after Goldman’s original piece. Serbia, of course, has an incentive to promote high numbers of victims, and especially high numbers of Serbs, because it enhances their victimhood status and promotes their nationalist agenda. But more important than high numbers is the overall integrity of the camp as a legitimate Holocaust site and not as a whimsical political ragdoll that has victim numbers ranging over nearly three orders of magnitude, and that is entirely lacking in relevant evidence.

Ristic’s rebuttal—“Shame on those who seek to revise history of the Holocaust”—is as poorly argued as it is poorly written. (Though, oddly, the Post website still displays this rebuttal, whereas the original essay is long gone.) Ristic expresses “astonishment” at the “pseudo-scientific and revisionist text” by Goldman, which contains, he says, little more than “a series of inaccurate statements and semi-information.” Ristic is incensed that Goldman dares to cite the ragged history of victim numbers; the Museum clearly accepts a figure in the mainstream range (80,000 to 90,000), though with the opportunity for higher figures in the future. Ristic writes, “As the research of the experts of the Museum…continues, it is to be expected that the number of Jasenovac victims will be corrected. … The estimated total number of victims is, unfortunately, far higher than the one that historical science will ever be able to identify with the precise data.” He is anxious to quell all thoughts of a mere few thousand deaths, and he equally seeks to avoid any suggestion that the figure approaches a million or more; as he well knows, both extremes threaten to undermine all credibility about the camp.

Most amusingly, in his entire lengthy rebuttal, Ristic never once mentions the “bombshell” about the bone-dissolving machines—not once. This is a tacit admission that the point holds, that no evidence was sought or found, and that the whole basis for Jasenovac as a top-tier death camp rests on little more than rumor and innuendo, if not outright falsehood.

The central problem for both Ristic and Goldman, however, is that their back-and-forth arguments promise to expose the far more consequential problems of the main Holocaust camps. In fact, Ristic does the nasty work for us. He writes, “we could ask a question as to whether it is possible to deny, in the same way, the number of 1,200,000 to 1,500,000 killed in Auschwitz since there is no forensic evidence for that claim either?” Touché, Mr. Ristic! The irony is that he is entirely correct, of course. No evidence (or scarcely any) for Auschwitz; none for Treblinka; none for Belzec—the same old story.

Grave Implications

Goldman’s main beef is with the ad hoc lie of the bone-dissolving machines, but this echoes the many, far more grievous lies about Auschwitz, Belzec, Treblinka, and indeed all six of the so-called death camps.[4] Of these, Goldman of course is silent. But he does decry the ongoing process of myth-formation surrounding a camp like Jasenovac, “where myths of Serbian and Jewish suffering were interwoven, providing a new series of national myths” (to cite the author David McDonald). Goldman, though, naturally avoids the similar but far greater myth-formation process about Auschwitz, the other camps, and the broader Holocaust. It is this very myth-formation process that has led to numbers like 1 million Jews gassed at Auschwitz, when, on the far more plausible revisionist thesis, perhaps 150,000 Jews died there—and none in gas chambers.

Likewise, Goldman ridicules the notion of human remains “yet to be discovered” at Jasenovac, and he rightly jabs a finger at the Yugoslav government, which, “during its 47-year rule of the site, never bothered once to try and locate these mysterious ‘missing’ remains.” The same, of course, can be said for the current Croatian government and its on-going 30-year rule. (One strongly suspects that there are simply no remains to be found there.) But this again raises the same question for the other camps: Where are the remains of anything approaching 1 million Jewish bodies at Auschwitz? Or 900,000 Jewish bodies at Treblinka? Or 600,000 Jewish bodies at Belzec? Do we have anything? Bodies, bones, ash—anything? Do we even have the holes in the ground where the Germans were said to bury the hundreds of thousands of victims, only to later dig them up and burn them “to ash” on open-air fires over wooden logs? Based on my years of research, the answer to all these questions is ‘no.’

What about the alleged 1 million Jews killed in the various ghettos? Where are their remains? What about the alleged 1.6 million Jews killed by shootings, mostly along the Eastern front; where are their remains? (Such figures are stated or implied by all of our experts, and are absolutely required to get us to the mandatory “6 million” total.) Not all of their remains, mind you, or even most of them. We would be satisfied with, say, half, or even a quarter, as long as we had a good explanation for the remainder. But instead we get stories of “600 bodies found here” and “250 bodies found there” and ashes consistent with perhaps “a few thousand bodies” at most. These are so far short of the “6 million” that they constitute an effective refutation of that very figure. Just as the “700,000 to 1 million” at Jasenovac is a farce, so too is the “6 million Jews” for the broader Holocaust.[5]

And yet, our intrepid reporter David Goldman has the gall to write, “Those who have conflated the only [!] wartime concentration camp without any verifiable data, with scientifically proven [!] Holocaust facts, have done immeasurable harm to Jewish history.” He is either ignorant of the truth or deliberately covering up the reality. The true “immeasurable harm” has been done by his fellow Jews and their intellectual lackeys who, for decades, have promoted an unsustainable myth of Jewish suffering.

The days of the “6 million” are numbered, and I suspect that Goldman, Goldstein, and friends know it. When that crumbles, so too collapses what little remains of Jewish credibility. When the orthodox Holocaust story goes down, the dominoes may well begin to fall. And when that happens, all bets are off.

Thomas Dalton, PhD, has authored or edited several books and articles on politics, history, and religion, with a special focus on National Socialism. His works include a new translation series of Mein Kampf, and the books Eternal Strangers (2020), The Jewish Hand in the World Wars (2019), and Debating the Holocaust (4th ed, 2020). Most recently he has edited a new edition of Rosenberg’s classic Myth of the 20th Century and a new book of political cartoons, Pan-Judah!. All these works are available at http://www.clemensandblair.com. For all his writings, see his personal website http://www.thomasdaltonphd.com.

[1] All alleged use of Nazi ’bone crushers’ to eliminate bodily evidence has been refuted in recent years. The machines in the few extant photos are likely conventional gravel ball mills used in road construction in the early 20th century. See the discussion in The Einsatzgruppen in the Occupied Eastern Territories (2018, C. Mattogno, Castle Hill Publishers), pp. 481-484. See also the online article “The bone mill of Lemberg” (2013).

[2] My all-time favorite Holocaust liar is Herman Rosenblat, who fabricated the whole “angel at the fence” story in the 1990s. His television interview in 2009, in which he openly confesses to the lie, is so audacious, so brazen, and so deluded that it stands as a monument to Jewish mendacity. The video is so instructive that it can’t be circulated enough.

[3] Benčić, A. (2018). “Koncentracijski logor Jasenovac: konfliktno ratno nasljeđe i osporavani muzejski postav.” Polemos XXI (41): 37–63.

[4] Such lies are vast, both in content and type. They cover all aspects of the Holocaust, and include overt lies, lies of omission, half-truths, dissembling, gross exaggeration, hyperbole, and many more. They were promoted by survivors, “eyewitnesses,” coerced and captive Germans, and present-day “experts.” I can’t begin to elaborate these here; they are the subject of several dedicated books. For starters, one might refer to Auschwitz Lies (G. Rudolf and C. Mattogno, 2017, Castle Hill), Treblinka (C. Mattogno and J. Graf, 2020, Castle Hill), or Belzec (C. Mattogno, 2016, Castle Hill). Or for a good overview of these issues, see my own work Debating the Holocaust (2020, Castle Hill).

[5] This is not to deny that many thousands of Jews did die during the National Socialist era. By most revisionist accounts, perhaps 500,000 in total died, from all causes. But this is more than a 90% reduction from the claimed 6 million. And it reduces Jewish deaths to a mere footnote in the larger catastrophe that was World War II.

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Hektor
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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby Hektor » 1 year 8 months ago (Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm)

cold beer wrote:What a bizarre article. Criticizing the inflated numbers at Jasenovac on the basis that the claimed death tolls are devoid of proof while at the same time reiterating the death toll at Auschwitz which likewise is devoid of proof! And anyone reading the article knows that the JP is doing so because the claimed victims are for the most part non-Jews, which infringes on their monopoly.


It's the same usual suspect pushing the narrative on both:
https://twitter.com/EZuroff/status/1430811207934652417

The one makes the other more credible in the minds of the gullible.

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Re: We hit the jackpot!

Postby cold beer » 1 year 8 months ago (Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:53 am)

Hektor wrote:
cold beer wrote:What a bizarre article. Criticizing the inflated numbers at Jasenovac on the basis that the claimed death tolls are devoid of proof while at the same time reiterating the death toll at Auschwitz which likewise is devoid of proof! And anyone reading the article knows that the JP is doing so because the claimed victims are for the most part non-Jews, which infringes on their monopoly.


It's the same usual suspect pushing the narrative on both:
https://twitter.com/EZuroff/status/1430811207934652417

The one makes the other more credible in the minds of the gullible.

The game plan becomes obvious.
You first have controversy where two 'victim groups' have a verbal war. Followed by the eventual assurance and confirmation of both groups' atrocity claims being historic truth.
An effective method to give holocaust stories another bump in the news keeping them ever present and cemented through repetition. All in the course of it making sure that you don't fail to vilify evil Catholic priests running ratlines along with indictment of other nationalistic villains.
Naturally communists fly under the banner of wholesome anti-fascists.


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