hatemonger David Cesarani taken to school in letter to ed.

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10395
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

hatemonger David Cesarani taken to school in letter to ed.

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:56 am)

David Cesarani is a shyster, plain and simple.

When he's not lying in his fraudulent writings on 'history', he's attacking those who advocate free speech about it. It follows that men like Cesarani want no scrutiny of their easily debunked efforts and tinfoil hat wishful thinking.

Liars are always haunted by their lies and often seem to cry for help. Note this Cesarani quote when interviewed by Die Zeit about the Irving trial:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/trial3/DieZeit120400e.html
There were indeed some scary moments. When Robert Jan Van Pelt testified we were all mildly shocked that even such an outstanding expert as he was not in a position to establish clarity on such things as the disposal of the murdered Jews.

Search 'Van Pelt' at this Forum to see just how scary those moments were then, and now.

And there's Cesarani's embarrassing True Believer Cult attempt to promote the so called 'holocau$t' as a religion:
Hitler was the Devil, and Auschwitz was Hell; that's how we understand and define evil today. That may not be the best way, but the Holocaust has without doubt become one moral absolute in a world in which not many still believe in God.


While profiting monetarily from the 'holocaust' scam, his hateful judeo-supremacist flavored corruption oozes from every word he writes. Read below as Joseph Bellinger demolishes this clown.

With fools like Cesarani who needs Revisionists?

- Hannover

Dear Editors:

I just finished reading the highly critical article of David Irving authored by David Cesarani, 'There's no martyrdom in this pathetic denouement.'

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?ar ... _analysis/

What struck me as offensively inappropriate was Mr. Cesarani's apparent personal hostility toward Mr. Irving, which he allowed to seep into his blistering commentary. Whatever the nature of Mr. Irving's 'offence', the idea of placing a human being behind bars for three or more years solely on the basis of violating an unjust law designed to punish individuals for 'thought crimes' is abhorrent to people who value freedom of speech, thought and _expression.

We have all heard over and over again from the usual pundits that the 'holocaust' is an event 'unique' in history, yet the statement itself is intrinsically and provably false. It seems to me that the mainstream version of the holocaust is 'unique' only insofar as it is the only event in history which compels rigid compliance from the public by means of repressive laws designed to stifle dissident historians and researchers attempting to sort through the maze of contradictory evidence and testimony which by and large characterizes this tragic event in modern history.

In the case of David Irving, his critics have sidestepped the primary issues at stake by focusing nearly all their attention upon his supposed 'intent' in publishing opinions and interpretations with which they are at variance. Often their own interpretations of Mr. Irving's 'intent' leads to quite erroneous conclusions on their part, as in the following, where Mr. Cesarani writes:

"But Irving is not an innocuous buffoon, and he is hardly a martyr to free speech. He courted disaster by revisiting a country in which he had previously been charged with a serious crime."

The point here is that if Mr. Irving is not currently a 'martyr to free speech,' then he shall assuredly become one in the course of time. Furthermore, 'denying the mainstream Sovietized version of the holocaust' can hardly be described as a 'serious crime' warranting the imposition of jail sentences which are usually reserved for hardened criminals

There are scores of books and articles which deny that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were guilty of treason, but are their authors charged and tried for denying the fact of their guilt? Daniel Kertzer and Daniel Goldhagen both unjustly accuse Pope Pius XII [and concomitantly Christianity itself] of 'anti-semitism' and complicity in setting the foundations for the holocaust, but these infamous characterizations are blatantly false and the purveyors of these published slurs and mischaracterizations bring millions of Christians into contempt in the eyes of the general public and unformed. Does this not constitute an abuse of free speech? We cannot maintain two standards here-either all must fall under the provenance of these unjust laws, or the laws themselves must be repealed. We cannot accuse men such as David Irving of 'serious crimes' whilst ignoring the hateful rants of people such as Kertzer, Goldhagen and Eli Wiesel, the latter advising people that one should continue to nurture hatred in their hearts for the German people. [Elie Wiesel, "Legends of our Time," 1968, pp. 177, 178]

Mr. Cesarani downplays the uncomfortable fact that Austria's laws pertaining to holocaust denial are unjust and undemocratic. In adopting this position the author stands self-exposed as a partisan advocate of legal repression directed against those whom he personally dislikes. It is, therefore, not simply a question of the message which alienates Mr. Cesarani, but ultimately the messenger himself.

Gloating over Irving's current predicament in an Austrian court strikes me as petty and revanchist, evoking images of Stalin's numerous show trials in the forties and fifties, imagery which seems to be entirely lost on Cesarani.

The concluding paragraphs of Mr. Cesarani's article afford a deeper insight into his rather convoluted thinking on the subject and nature of bona fide holocaust revisionism. His rather fanciful description of holocaust revisionism, in which he inappropriately refers to it as 'holocaust denial' is illogical and ill-informed, reflecting an irrational belief that 'holocaust denial is a particularly vicious form of anti-Semitism.' In point of fact, the holocaust is a matter of definition which calls for a proper reevaluation of forensic evidence, documentation and testimony in order to sort out the facts from the Soviet inspired fictions. Referring to legitimate historical revisionism as a form of 'anti-Semitism' severs one from practical realities. The clever use of simple buzz words equating historical revisionism with racial 'anti-Semitism' represents an undignified attempt to evoke emotional, rather than pragmatic, responses in otherwise intelligent human beings. It constitutes an attempt to divorce people from the real issue at hand. While Mr. Cesarani's colourful, somewhat distorted description may indeed reflect the opinions of a radical but insignificant element among Mr. Irving's supporters, they cannot be said to reflect the opinions of reputable revisionists. To my knowledge, holocaust revisionists do not claim that 'the Jews' forged evidence. In fact, in his book, "Holocaust Victims Accuse,"

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/resou ... Accuse.pdf

Rabbi Moshe Shoenfeld maintains that the Zionists not only collaborated with the Nazis, but that they took advantage of the holocaust to further their plans to establish a Jewish State in the Middle East.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antis ... holocaust/

This theme is more fully developed by Jewish historian Lenni Brenner in his book "Zionism in the age of the Dictators."

The focus of responsible historians must be properly redirected toward the former Soviet Union and Stalin's propagandists as being the primary culprits suspected of disseminating false reports inundating the West with stories of abhorrent atrocities and inflated casualties. These points are incidentally addressed and documented in my book, 'Himmlers Death.' Conversely, these indisputable facts should not be interpreted as implying that no atrocities at all had been committed.

In conclusion, Mr. Cesarani's statement equating 'holocaust denial' to "allowing a man to shout fire in a crowded theater," appears to reflect his own methodology rather than any presumed methodology of revisionist historians. No one but Mr. Cesarani is shouting fire where none exists. Whatever the causes for the assumed 'rise of anti-Semitism' triumphantly proclaimed by Mr. Cesarani at the conclusion of his article, they are certainly not attributable to the legitimate efforts of historical revisionists in their quest to establish the truth in regard to what did or did not happen to the Jewish population of Europe during the Second World War.

J. P. Bellinger
Author: "Himmlers Tod" [Himmlers Death-The Final Days of the Reichsfuehrer-SS]

http://www.arndtverlag.de/homepages/him ... index2.htm
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Ajax
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:27 pm
Location: The Real World

Postby Ajax » 1 decade 7 years ago (Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:28 am)

I have always been ever so slightly disturbed with Cesarani's attitude, particularly towards David Irving. Part of me thinks that this bile has nothing to do with anything that has a basis in fact, and everything to do with Irving's calling him 'ratface' on occasion.

The man is the king of Holocau$tomaniacs.
Scour the surface throughly until it is glistening...

User avatar
comrade seinfeld
Member
Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:27 pm

Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 7 years ago (Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:34 pm)

David Cesarani is a shyster, plain and simple.

When he's not lying in his fraudulent writings on 'history', he's attacking those who advocate free speech about it. It follows that men like Cesarani want no scrutiny of their easily debunked efforts and tinfoil hat wishful thinking.

Liars are always haunted by their lies and often seem to cry for help. Note this Cesarani quote when interviewed by Die Zeit about the Irving trial:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/trial3/DieZeit120400e.html

The above was posted by Hannover (I can't put it in quotes as I have to use a proxy server to overcome censorship).
[quotes added by Moderator]

I would not agree with the above. Cesarani's recent biography of Adolf Eichmann is well worth reading for revisionists. In many respects it has a revisionist flavor, although, Cesarani, as a conventional historian, does not see fit to dispute the basic exterminationist narrative.

Why the Eichmann biography by Cesarani could be said to be semi-revisionist, in my opinion, is because, in contemporary times, any worthwhile historian has to delve much deeper in terms of objective facts, if he wants such a biography to be taken seriously, especially in regard to the wide spread interest in "Holocaust" revisionism today -- I would think that the propagation of such objective facts would raise questions about the veracity of the exterminationist narrative. In this respect I would think that the revisionist dogmatism I find in this forum would be more likely to turn people away from revisionism, since, in my opinion, if we are ever going to defeat the exterminationists then it is all ultimately a question of accumulating many objective facts and then pointing out what is the interrelatedness between such facts, rather than making bald statements which cannot really be confimed objectively.

As far as what Cesarani said in his Mail & Guardian article, nowhere does he actually say that he agrees that there should be laws against "Holocaust denial". He does not make any comment one way or another, but merely confirms that the Austrians had little choice but to arrest Irving, and that Irving simply made a gamble that did not come off. The basic problem with Cesarani is that he is such a conventional historian is that he simply cannot conceive how the revisionists could possibly be correct (as I think it is only rational to adopt an agnostic perspective), which is why he is so unsympathetic to Irving; but, as with his Eichmann biography, he is just undermining his own perhaps ideological perspective by seeking to delve into what are the objective facts about the "Holocaust".

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10395
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:50 am)

comrade seinfeld ignores this from Cesarani:
What mattered was to prove that here was a rationally thinking man deliberately ignoring historical sources for evil motives. In other words, Irving is evil, not crazy.

That's as good as calling for Irving and other 'evil' doers to be burned at the stake. Unmitigated hate and madness from judeo-supremacist Cesarani who profits from the 'holocau$t' lie.

and he says:
He does not make any comment one way or another, but merely confirms that the Austrians had little choice but to arrest Irving, ...

Incorrect, they had plenty of choice, arrest him or do not arrest him, very simple. The choice was either to ignore an anti human rights law against free speech, or arrest Irving for Thought Crimes.

comrade seinfeld also says:
I would think that the propagation of such objective facts would raise questions about the veracity of the exterminationist narrative. In this respect I would think that the revisionist dogmatism I find in this forum would be more likely to turn people away from revisionism, since, in my opinion, if we are ever going to defeat the exterminationists then it is all ultimately a question of accumulating many objective facts and then pointing out what is the interrelatedness between such facts, rather than making bald statements which cannot really be confimed objectively.

The utter demolition of the 'holocaust' lie through science is somehow not 'objective' to comrade seinfeld. Curiously he calls it "dogmatism", others call it rational thought, logic, and ofcourse, science. Take note that nowhere in his discussions here can comrade seinfeld refute the endeavors of the likes of Germar Rudolf and other Revisionists of note.

Take note that nowhere is comrade seinfeld able to defend the standard storyline about Eichmann. No wonder, neither can anyone else who debates informed Revisionists.

But then, pointing out the obvious may not be "objective".

- Hannover

ps
See Cesarani shredded when he says:
'By the summer of 1944, the British government knew that Auschwitz was a place of mass murder. Why, given this information, didn't the Allies act sooner, and why specifically didn't they bomb Auschwitz?'

here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1514
'Gassing photo? And what photo would that be?'
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests