Forward magazine / 'Revisionist: Time To Quit Shoah Fight'

[Michael Santomauro]

Revisionist: It's Time To Quit Shoah Fight

By Nathaniel Popper
Thu. Jan 15, 2009

http://www.forward.com/articles/14953/

One of the primary leaders in the fight to question and delegitimize the Holocaust has proclaimed that fight to be a lost cause, sparking a furious debate among his cohorts.

Mark Weber, a telegenic Californian, has served for 15 years as director of the Institute for Historical Review, which was founded in the late 1970s as a center for people dedicated to doubting and criticizing mainstream histories of the Holocaust.

This month, however, Weber released an essay on the institute's Web site, questioning whether this work has ever had any relevance. Weber argued that Holocaust revisionists are unlikely to have any success in convincing large numbers of people.

"It's been almost 30 years, and Holocaust revisionism has gotten almost no support in academic circles or society at large," Weber told the Forward. "It's gotten some support in Iran, or places like that, but as far as I know, there is no history department supporting writing by these folks."

The argument in Weber's essay, "How Relevant Is Holocaust Revisionism?" might appear, at first glance, to be good news for the Jewish organizations that have fought against Holocaust revisionists. But in his essay, Weber calls for his movement to shift to a new mission, one more purely directed to fighting against "Jewish-Zionist power."

Michael Shermer, a columnist for Scientific American who wrote a book about Holocaust revisionists, said that "for Weber, the Holocaust is just a minor skirmish. The real war to be won is about the Zionists."

Though Weber, like most Holocaust revisionists, is not a fan of the Jewish community, his essay has not even gained him popularity among his fellow travelers. Bradley Smith, a former employee of Weber's institute who is a prominent online publisher of Holocaust revisionist material, told the Forward that he is putting together a whole issue of his newsletter with arguments against Weber.

"It's hard for me to think of Mark Weber as betraying me, because we're friends. And yet, there are those who feel he has betrayed the institute and that he has betrayed the revisionist movement such as it is," Smith said in a phone interview from Mexico.

Smith said that a number of prominent revisionists will be calling for Weber's resignation from the institute.

The world of Holocaust revisionists — inhabited by people who are, by nature, disputatious and unconcerned with social norms — is not one in which divisions and fights have been foreign. Weber took over the Institute for Historical Review after a prolonged and expensive legal fight with its founder, Willis Carto, who had built the institute into what both antagonists and protagonists acknowledge was the premier forum for Holocaust doubters and deniers.

Since taking over, Weber has continued to publish writing on the Holocaust and on World War II. But he came to the institute after working with the white supremacist National Alliance party, and he has pushed to broaden the institute's mandate. The Web site that Weber has built features such articles as "The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution" and "Israel at 60: A Grim Balance Sheet."

In his new essay, published January 9, Weber does try to position himself as a more moderate voice in the debate about the Holocaust. He acknowledges Jewish suffering, and notes that Joseph Goebbel's diaries speak about a concerted campaign to eliminate the Jews — a heretical view for many Holocaust doubters.

"Much of the predictable hostility toward my piece has come from people who are basically cultists — or fanatics on this issue," Weber told the Forward. "They view it with an almost religious fervor."

Already, this has appeared to cause some questioning on revisionist Web sites. One commenter, writing under the handle Carto's Cutlass Supreme, responded to Weber's use of Goebbel's diary by asking: "What would people say about that here? Do we know the diary couldn't have been tampered with?"

Weber's discussion of Jewish suffering, though, is a lead-in to the historian's broader point, which is that the Holocaust doubters have not been effective agents in the broader battle against Jewish power.

Michael Santomauro, who runs an e-mail list dedicated to questioning Jews and the Holocaust, said that Weber's shift is a strategic mistake.

"I think it is an unfortunate path he is taking, because the Holocaust is an effective weapon," he told the Forward. "When the Holocaust is used as a weapon, it explains a lot of the lopsided foreign policy."

But for Santomauro and many of his online friends, much of the problem with Weber is not his ideology, but his work output. Most prominent revisionists are prolific writers who will publish anywhere in order to have their views distributed. Under Weber, the institute has ceased publication of its journal and stopped hosting international conferences.

"He hasn't done any work," Smith said.

Aryeh Tuchman, director of the Anti-Defamation League's Library and Research Center, said that Weber's slowed production hurt the doubters and deniers of the Holocaust long before his new essay. "There is not a central Holocaust denial organization or body anymore," Tuchman said. "There's no one who can serve to motivate them anymore."

The Iranian government, under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, tried to take up this mantle when it hosted a conference with Holocaust doubters last year. But even Weber said that the conference didn't do revisionists any favors.

"If the point of the conference was to be scholarly, the thing was a failure," Weber said. "The thing only strengthened and confirmed the views people already had about Iran, Ahmadinejad and Israel."

[Hannover]

Right, as if Mark Weber represents Revisionist research. As if Mark Weber even knows about the totality of Revisionist research. The entire piece is a strawman.

Michael Santomauro,
While you are quoted in this piece, which was written on behalf of desperate & wishful thinking Jewish supremacists, it would be nice to hear a bit more from you about it. What say you?

- Hannover

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Yea! I've been mentioned in Forverts as the publication was originally called in Yiddish.

[Moderator]

Considering the wave of new registrants, articles like this one in the misnamed Forward are assisting in brininging about revisionism awareness and reveals the desire of so many to get involved and show support for this forum.
M1

[Vlad]

Yea! I've been mentioned in Forverts as the publication was originally called in Yiddish.

The Yiddish edition still exists. See here:
http://yiddish.forward.com/

[Goethe]

Yea! I've been mentioned in Forverts as the publication was originally called in Yiddish.

The Yiddish edition still exists. See here:
http://yiddish.forward.com/

Looks like Hebrew to me.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Some of us who have known Weber for many years, in my case it is nearly thirty years, know that he was never a sincere or serious holocaust revisionist--ever! At best Mark Weber was a "backslider"--but he always was, in fact, something far worse which was, and still is, a two-faced opportunist and "pseudo-revisionist." Weber knew he could get money out of the holocaust revisionist crowd by making sympathetic noises that many would interpret as "revisionism." Worst of all, however, was that almost as soon as he had the chance, he destroyed the Journal for Historical Review and eventually reduced the IHR to a mere news clipping service while at the same time taking lots of money for himself from people who, at least when they were still alive, had high hopes that the IHR would continue to fight the holocaust hoax.

Weber is a kind of low-budget Bernie Madoff who even robs dead people of their money and the high hopes they had for the IHR.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Michael Santomauro]

Re: Exaggerations in Mark Weber's essay, "How Relevant is Holocaust Revisionism?" http://www.ihr.org/weber_revisionism_jan09.html

Dear ReportersNotebook:

Some of us who have known Weber for many years, in my case it is nearly thirty years, know that he was never a sincere or serious holocaust revisionist--ever! At best Mark Weber was a "backslider"--but he always was, in fact, something far worse which was, and still is, a two-faced opportunist and pseudo-revisionist. Weber knew he could get money out of the holocaust revisionist crowd by making sympathetic noises that they would interpret as revisionism. Worst of all, however, was that almost as soon as he had the chance, he destroyed the Journal for Historical Review and eventually reduced the IHR into a mere news clipping service while at the same time taking lots of money for himself from people who, at least when they were still alive, still had high hopes that the IHR would fight the holocaust hoax.

Weber is a kind of low budget Bernie Madoff who even robs dead people of the high hopes they had put in the IHR.

Fritz Berg
[email protected]

Dear Friends,

Re: Exaggerations in Mark Weber's essay, "How Relevant is Holocaust Revisionism?" http://www.ihr.org/weber_revisionism_jan09.html

Weber claims: "Millions [of Jews] lost their lives.

In order to support his case, Weber quotes this passage from Joseph Goebbels's diary entry of March 27, 1942: "The Jews are now being deported to the East from the Generalgouvernement [Poland], starting around Lublin. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely, and there's not much left of the Jews. By and large, one can say that 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated, while only 40 percent can be put to work. The former Gauleiter of Vienna, who is carrying out the operation, is proceeding quite judiciously, using a method that is not all too conspicuous. The Jews are facing a judgment which, while barbaric, they fully deserve. The prophecy the Führer made about them for having brought on a new world war is beginning to come true in the most terrible manner. One must not be sentimental in these matters."

(Evidence provided by David Irving strongly suggests the passage is authentic. I won't get into this in this short missive.)

Goebbels is referring to the Jews in the Generalgouvernement. He is saying that as of March 27, 1942, the Jews from this area are being cruelly and barbarically deported. Many will die due to disease, exposure to the elements, malnutrition, ad hoc atrocities, etc.

He also says that, in the near future, approximately 60 percent of this particular group of Jews will be eliminated due to the above causes. The question is: Sixty percent of what number of Jews????

In his "Report," as of December 31,1942, Nazi statistician Richard Korherr listed the number of Jews in the Generalgouvernement as 297, 214. Sixty percent of this number is 178,148.

So, how about the number of Generalgouvernement Jews who lost their lives between the months of March and December 1942? Let us give Weber the benefit of the doubt and throw in a very large exaggeration of 100,000 Jews.

Do the math. This comes out to 278, 148 Jews who died tragically as a result of the Nazi ethnic cleansing policy.

How does Weber arrive at the claim that "millions of Jews lost their lives?" That is to say, two million or more Jews. "Millions" implies at least two million.

Weber then writes: "When the war ended in 1945, most of the Jews of Germany, Poland, the Netherlands and others countries were gone."

Weber totally ignores the fact that many of these Jews were gone because there was a mass exodus of Jews from these areas. The Nazis had a large scale deportation plan, and many Jews were scattered about different parts of the world.

My problem with Weber is not that he views Holocaust revisionism as "socially and politically irrelevant." I disagree with this view, but I respect his right to hold it.

My problem with Weber is his laziness and lack of productivity. I am told he is paid about $50000 per year to do next to nothing. He publishes no journal, no newsletter, no new or original books; there are no large-scale yearly conferences and no weekly radio broadcasts, nor does he make world-wide lecture tours like David Irving. He does very little to earn his pay.

If he thinks that Holocaust revisionism is largely irrelevant, then so be it. But he should be publishing on a regular basis on other relevant issues (eg., Jewish political power, etc.) He cannot do this, because he is a lazy man who needs a boss like Willis Carto over his head to make sure he gets his work done.

Paul Grubach
[email protected]

Dear Friends:

Although in Mark Weber's 2-hour phone call to me he made the point
that I could not criticize him because I was not him (his point is a
good one, I am not him), I have to say that he has chosen the worst
moment in the last 60 years to abandon Revisionism.

As the Holocaust centers of America become the public, and open bases
for Jewish fanatics to advocate Holocausting Gaza, in fact as Jewish
fanatics are slaughtering Palestinians with real chemical weapons,
phosphorus bombs (and if you don't believe they used them three days
on Palestinian children today they attacked the UN headquarters in
Gaza with phosphorus bombs). Mark Weber has surrendered.

Just like his good buddy Jared Taylor, who described Holocaust
Revisionism as meaningless, Weber described it to me as meaningless.

Like Taylor, really quite an ignorant fellow, he is indifferent to
the ground shift that has taken in the Middle East, where in the last
decade Revisionism has swept the region. Weber complained that Arabs
have not given him lots of money to support Revisionism, but the
truth is that Arabs are probably even more politically inert than
Americans. There are different reasons, but it is true.

But how long can the Jews burn Palestinian children alive with
phosphorus bombs while screaming that they are the only victims in
history, as they celebrate the murders with champagne, in their
fortified Holocaust palaces.

Fire Mark Weber. Boycott his events.

James
--A FORMER CONTRIBUTOR OF THE IHR

Dear ReportersNotebook:

After re-reading this Forward article, I am once more persuaded that
Weber has not surrendered or abandoned the cause of Holocaust Revisionism.

What he has done is suggest that it is not a strong tactic in the struggle
against Jewish Power.

A tactic's success must be measured by whether it wins any battles. What are the battles? The battles are intellectual, and popular. Intellectually Holocaust Revisionism has won many battles. Popularly, it is far from clear that it has won any battles. Although it does help reinforce the activist soldiers.
Nowhere did I see Weber recommend giving up Holocaust Revisionism.
Please correct meif I am wrong.
What Weber has said is, that we need to promote other more
brand-worthy tactics. "Holocaust Denial" does not sell . "Anti-Zionism
sells", Anti-Israel (Gaza, etc.) sells, Pollard/Liberty sells, War for Israel
sells, and last but not least, KM seems to be selling beyond the choir.

I do not understand this almost rage against him.

Joe

Dear ReportersNotebook:

The fight to exonerate an entire people from the perpetual presumption of guilt for the murder of millions is a cult? Perhaps if it were your people accused, your parents slandered, you could understand better.

To the many who don't need that much to dutifully and honorably stand for truth, my family and I thank you most sincerely.

~Otto

Dear Friends:

Re: The Revisionist Cult?

I don't think Holocaust Revisionism is a cult, any more than the
Protestant Reformation against the excesses Catholicism was a cult.
I think Holocaust Revisionism is an important part of the broader
fight to liberate ourselves from the conformist version of the
history of WW2, to which we have been held hostages for more than
half a century. Every time the elites want to fire up the peasantry
in support of a new war, the rhetoric and rationale of WW2 are
invoked. The object of their hate propaganda is a new "Hitler",
a "maniac" who wants to "rule the world" and "take away our
freedom."

The Holocaust Legend is central to the issue of smashing through the
conformist version of WW2. It's the last refuge of WW2 supporters
and war mongers. The spectre of the Holocaust is invoked even by so
called "conservatives" (i.e. Sean Hannity, et al.) in their tireless
campaign to drum up support for Israel.

No one is in jail for speaking out against "Zionism." Germar Rudolf,
Ernst Zundel, Wolfgang Frolich and Sylvia Stolz, just to name a few,
are in jail for attacking the Holocaust fraud. The Jews think the
Holocaust is a weak link or they would not defend it so viciously.
If they believe it's their weak link, isn't that important?

Does anyone else agree with me?

---JE

Dear JE:

Re: [jacobandesau] Re: The Revisionist Cult?

Historical truth is always important in debunking anything ruling mythology. Everyday we are reminded of the "Holocaust" in the media, we are told it is the result of "Nationalism" or "Racism" the ultimate guilt trip, so they can suppress our racial consciousness as it is an evil "urge". Politicians use it as a scare tactic to whip up the Sheep to fight their wars against another "Hitler", the masses have been so conditioned to immediately associate the image of "Hitler" and "Nazism" with evil etc, we all know what we are dealing with. It's not all about Israel either.

The Jews have overplayed the "Holocaust" card that the cracks in the story are all too obvious that they have to pounce on these Heretics to safeguard their legend. It is also the basis of the postmodern world view that "Political Correctness" and "Multiculturalism" could never have been possible without the "Holocaust" legend. If the Jews had never challenged the Revisionists but ignored them, less people would be conscious of the reality of Jewish world domination. It is an essential component in the whole arsenal to demolish the power of the Jews and their political-cultural creations that are dominant today. I think it is most counter-productive for us to debate the validity of Revisionism. It just creates more division we don't need, it has a place but it also doesn't have to be the sole preserve, as many peoples are suffering because of this mythology.

Sepp

Re: The Revisionist Cult?

Really, the Holocaust belief is a cult of a tiny minority, perhaps
0.25% of the world population, If they have imposed it as a state
religion over White-Christians, a mere 10% of the world population it
remains a cult. Day by day, Revisionism is spreading among Muslims
and they are 25% of the world population.

Opposition to cults, is known as deprogramming.

James

Dear ReportersNotebook:

My concern with Mark is that in his last essay he appeared to embrace two of the basic tenets of the Holocaust story: millions of Jews perished during World War ll and that the Third Reich was responsible...as far as I know Weber does not claim that these deaths were part of a deliberate program e.g. ''the final solution'' nor does he say that the gas chambers were the principal instrument of their demise. On the other hand, Weber will not categorically discount the use of such mechanisms. Perhaps it's time to set the record straight...Mark can you hear me?
joe
[email protected]

To be continued...

[Vlad]

Looks like Hebrew to me.

Hebrew letters, Yiddish language.

[Michael Santomauro]

From: "Berkowitz, Jackie" <[email protected]>
To: "Berkowitz, Jackie" <[email protected]>

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:04:10 PM
Subject: U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Traveling Exhibition Opens at United Nations

I have attached a media advisory for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum’s acclaimed exhibition Deadly Medicine: Creating the Master Race opening at the United Nations on Monday, January 26. Please let me know if you need any other information from me or are interested in covering or attending the press preview, my contact information can be found below. Thank you.

Jackie

Jackie Berkowitz ׀ Communications Officer ׀ U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum ׀ 202-488-2637 ׀ [email protected].

“Nazism is applied biology.”

—Rudolf Hess, Deputy to Adolf Hitler

January 16, 2009 Jackie Berkowitz [email protected]

UNITED STATES HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM EXHIBITION

DEADLY MEDICINE: CREATING THE MASTER RACE

TO OPEN AT THE UNITED NATIONS

Traveling Exhibition to Premiere at United Nations—Commences Weeklong Schedule of UN Holocaust Remembrance Activities

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum’s traveling exhibition, Deadly Medicine: Creating the Master Race, examines how the Nazi leadership, in collaboration with individuals in professions traditionally charged with healing and the public good, used science to help legitimize persecution, murder and, ultimately, genocide. It will premiere on Monday, January 26, at the United Nations Headquarters in the Visitor’s Lobby and mark the beginning of a weeklong schedule of programming at the UN in recognition of the International Day of Commemoration in memory of the victims of the Holocaust. The annual observance is held around the world on January 27, the anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi killing center Auschwitz-Birkenau.

“Deadly Medicine explores the Holocaust’s roots in then-contemporary scientific and pseudo-scientific thought,” explains exhibition curator Susan Bachrach. “At the same time, it touches on complex ethical issues we face today, such as how societies acquire and use scientific knowledge and how they balance the rights of the individual with the needs of the larger community. We are pleased to be bringing this important exhibition to the United Nations and an international audience.”

This version of Deadly Medicine is based on the acclaimed exhibition of the same name that originally opened at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., in April 2004. Two other successful traveling versions of the exhibition have been on display in Canada and Germany.

A press preview with exhibition curator Susan Bachrach will be held on January 26 from 9:30 to 11:30 a.m. Deadly Medicine will be open through March 22. Media interested in attending the press preview or speaking to Susan Bachrach should contact Jackie Berkowitz at (202) 488-2637.

Eugenics theory sprang from turn-of-the-century scientific beliefs asserting that Charles Darwin’s theories of “survival of the fittest” could be applied to humans. Supporters, spanning the globe and political spectrum, believed that through careful controls on marriage and reproduction, a nation’s genetic health could be improved.

The Nazi regime was founded upon the conviction that “inferior” races and individuals had to be eliminated from German society so that the fittest “Aryans” could thrive. The Nazi state fully committed itself to implementing a uniquely racist and antisemitic variation of eugenics to “scientifically” build what it considered to be a “superior race.” By the end of World War II, six million Jews had been murdered. Millions of others also became victims of persecution and murder through Nazi “racial hygiene” programs designed to cleanse Germany of “biological threats” to the nation’s “health,” including “foreign-blooded” Roma and Sinti (Gypsies), persons diagnosed as “hereditarily ill,” and homosexuals. In German-occupied territories, Poles and others belonging to ethnic groups deemed “inferior” were also murdered.

In response to the medical community’s interest in Deadly Medicine, the Museum established its Science and Medicine Initiative to augment medical ethics education in the healthcare professions. The Initiative is creating collaborative opportunities to explore the implications for contemporary bioethics by presenting the history in Deadly Medicine to prompt exploration of such 21st-century ethical issues as the rapid advances in genetics and medicine, and the value of individual lives, especially those of people considered to be disabled. Following its presentation at the United Nations, the exhibition will travel to medical schools and universities around the country. Exhibition brochures in French, German and Spanish will be available on site.

Holocaust remembrance activities at the United Nations are led by the Holocaust and the United Nations Outreach Programme of the Department of Public Information. The programme, as established by General Assembly resolution 60/7, aims to mobilize civil society for Holocaust remembrance and education, in order to help to prevent future acts of genocide. In partnership with its international network of civil society groups and Holocaust institutions, the programme organizes a film series, briefings and training seminars, and publishes discussion papers on Holocaust-related topics and innovative online information products. For more information, please contact Kimberly Mann at [email protected] and visit www.un.org/holocaustremembrance.

For media accreditation, please visit: www.un.org/media/accreditation or contact Gary Fowlie, Chief, Media Accreditation and Liaison Unit, United Nations Department of Public Information, Tel (212) 963-6937; Fax (212) 963 4642. All visitors to the United Nations are required to pass through Security at the entrance on First Avenue and 46 Street, and should possess valid photo identification.

A living memorial to the Holocaust, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum inspires citizens and leaders to confront hatred, promote human dignity and prevent genocide. Its far-reaching educational programs and global impact are made possible by the generosity of donors nationwide through legacy and annual giving. For more information, visit www.ushmm.org.

[Moderator]

Michael Santomauro:
Make comments with your posts, we want to hear from you. Please read our guidelines.
M1

[Kiwichap]

Weber was never a General MacArthur, Rommel or Montgomery. His ability to take the lead was abysmal. Under fire, he would collapse. His essays always seemed to have two threads running through them. Fire off a couple of weak shots, then head down, and run for cover. I was never sure who's side the guy was on. I always had the feeling, 'I wouldn't like this fellow covering my back in a fight'.

I have listened again to some of his earlier interviews. In the early days, while consolidating control, he said all the right things, and seemingly took the battle to the enemy. But all the while, he was destroying the infrastructure, weakening the strategy, and betraying the troops.

At least he's finally come clean, and revealed what most already knew. He wasn't up for the job, totally inadequate, not brave enough, not committed, wishy washy, and in the end, he's tucked tail and run cowardly from the battlefield. Was he ever on our side?

This can only be good news for Revisionists and the IHR. An unproductive tree should always get the chop, Why let it encumbereth the ground and take up valuable space.

[Riley DeWiley]

I have never met Mark Weber, and will pass no judgment on the man.

I will say this, though: he is the head of an organization that was founded to advance the cause of Holocaust Revisionism. If he feels that cause is unworthy of his further efforts, he should simply resign. There is no dishonor in doing so.

Let those who wish to continue the effort, do so.

Riley

[Breker]

I have never met Mark Weber, and will pass no judgment on the man.

I will say this, though: he is the head of an organization that was founded to advance the cause of Holocaust Revisionism. If he feels that cause is unworthy of his further efforts, he should simply resign. There is no dishonor in doing so.

Let those who wish to continue the effort, do so.

Riley

Well said Mr. DeWiley. I suspect that Mr. Weber gains monetarily from controlling the IHR. However, I also suspect that his monetary rewards will diminsh after IHR supporters get wind of his decreasing credibility.
Also, there is a distinct smell of misinformation concerning revisionists in the article posted. The author writes as if revisionists were members of a formal political party, when in reality revisionism is simply grassroots awareness and resultant resistance.
Breker

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Where is Mark Weber hiding? Why doesn't he join this debate to at least try to defend himself?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
_________________