Autopsies

[Atigun]

Is there a good reason to think that the oft cited newspaper article doesn't say "Never was a case of poison gas uncovered"?

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

An exterminationist has posted what he purports to be the complete article from the Wichita Eagle (see above). His contention is that since revisionists lied about the autopsy reports of Dr. Larson showing no gassing deaths in German concentration camps, it supports the claims of the so-called death camps in Poland. If anyone has a link to the Wichita Eagle article or to a full paragraph/page of Dr. Larson's bio it would be convenient since I have access to neither. Until I can't resolve the issue I have to abandon O'Keefe as a reliable source.

[Hannover]

An exterminationist has posted what he purports to be the complete article from the Wichita Eagle (see above). His contention is that since revisionists lied about the autopsy reports of Dr. Larson showing no gassing deaths in German concentration camps, it supports the claims of the so-called death camps in Poland. If anyone has a link to the Wichita Eagle article or to a full paragraph/page of Dr. Larson's bio it would be convenient since I have access to neither. Until I can't resolve the issue I have to abandon O'Keefe as a reliable source.

I double checked the article from the Eagle as posted.
- The Eagles article clearly says no gassings were found via autopsies... period.
- There is no lies in stating the facts.
- Larson never autopsied labor camps in Poland.
- How is O'Keefe not a reliable source?
- You are conceding unnecessarily.
- Ask your opponent if Simon Wiesenthal and Martin Martin Broszat were lying when they said there were no gas chambers in Germany?
- Your opponent is grasping at straws, ask him to show the human remains for the '6M Jews, 5M others'.
- How does your opponent respond to this?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9535&p=72368&hilit=hannover+asmarques#p72368

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[Dresden]

"Larson said that in Southern Germany, where he served, autopsies showed that death by gassing and shooting were rare"

Probably as rare as hens teeth.

[Atigun]

O'Keefe footnotes his statements but I have no access to either Dr. Larson's bio or the newspaper article. My opponent claims that he does and has posted what he claims is a direct copy of the newspaper article and a quote from Dr. Larson's bio that contradicts what O'Keefe said. Until I can verify the facts of the matter it would be silly of me to use O'Keefe as a source.

[Atigun]

"Larson said that in Southern Germany, where he served, autopsies showed that death by gassing and shooting were rare"

Probably as rare as hens teeth.

My opponent is no paragon of veracity but in this case, I simply don't have the means to disprove the accuracy of what he has posted. He refuses to give a link for the newspaper article and I've not been able to find a pdf of Dr. Larson's bio.

[Dresden]

Atigun said:

"My opponent is no paragon of veracity but in this case, I simply don't have the means to disprove the accuracy of what he has posted.
He refuses to give a link for the newspaper article....."

There are quotation marks(" ") around some of the statements, but not around the "rare" part.
Your opponent may be putting words in Larson's mouth, and that's why he doesn't want to post a link to the article.

Maybe Hermod or the Rabbit can find the Newspaper article.....they seem to be pretty competent when it comes to digging up rare newspaper articles.

[Atigun]

Indeed, Steve, one of his favorite ploys is the out of context quote. Here's hoping that the Rabbit can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

Who is your youtube adversary Atigun, it's not timpovikings is it?

Geneologybank.com (Newsbank.com) gives online access to partial archives of the The Wichita Eagle—only the editions between 1967 - 1974. But I've ordered a copy of this article from a US library which claims to hold a full archive on microfilm. If and when they send me it, I'll post it here.

Here's more of the text from the book for better understanding of what Larson told McCallum:

To get into Dachau, you had to have a pass. Col. Larson's was signed by the Commanding General of the area. (He still has the original.) For the next 10 days, many nights with only an hour or two of restless sleep, Col. Larson worked among the dead. He performed about 25 autopsies a day and superficially examined another 300 to 1,000 bodies. He autopsied only those bodies that appeared to have died questionably. "Many of them died from typhus," Dr. Larson told me recently. "Dachau's crematoriums couldn't keep up with the burning of the bodies. They did not have enough oil to keep the incinerators going. I found that a number of the victims had also died from tuberculosis. All of them were malnourished. The medical facilities were most inadequate. There was no sanitation. Two of my assistants developed TB while working with me, but apparently I'd been exposed to it so often it didn't touch me. The only infection I suffered was a cutaneous tuberculous-ulcer on one knuckle."

There were no professional autopsy rooms available, so Col. Larson and his two assistants took the best precautions they could. There wasn't even any soap available, no green soap, no Lysol; most of the time their improvised morgues were not even heated. There was no way to sterilize their surgical instruments to stop the spread of infection. One of the boys who worked with Col. Larson developed TB of the testicle and later had it amputed. His other assistant was the son of a New York City undertaker. He developed pulmonary tuberculosis and was subjected to years of treatment after the war.

Dr. Larson picks up the story:

"Dachau was a city of the dead when we got there. We found heaps of bodies outside the crematoriums, 400 to 500 bodies to a heap. Such human waste. They were horribly emaciated, horribly scarred with infected ulcers. They died in all sorts of positions: some of the legs were flexed, some not flexed, there was little muscle tissue left in the legs; many of them weighed less than 100 pounds. Most of the bodies were eastern Europeans, civilians from Poland and Rumania, most of them Jewish. "Dachau was where they made most of the insignia worn by the German Army. I personally collected more than 1,000 Nazi emblems. A rumor going around Dachau after we got there was that many of the prisoners were poisoned. I did a lot of toxicological analysis to determine the facts and removed organs from a cross-section of about 30 or 40 bodies and sent them into Paris to the Army's First Medical Laboratory for analysis, since I lacked the proper facilities in the field. The reports came back negative. I could not find where any of these people had been poisoned. The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or another. However, we did probe into such questions as, 'What happened to those prisoners who became psychotic and developed a serious mental disease after internment at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with them?' Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First, however, they were taken into a big windowless building next to the crematorium where the ceiling was covered with false showerheads. The victims were then ordered to strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped in cyanide pellets. Then they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles. But, in my opinion, only a relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical facilities were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was imminent, and they grew so weak they could no longer work or function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi called them 'mercy killings' because there was no hope of them getting well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination was the answer."

- J. D. McCallum, Crime Doctor: Dr. Charles P. Larson, World's Foremost Medical-detective, Reports from His Crime File, Mercer Island, WA: The Writing Works, 1978, pp. 59-61.

__________
edited to correct quoting format error

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

- Ask your opponent if Simon Wiesenthal and Martin Martin Broszat were lying when they said there were no gas chambers in Germany?

Neither of them said that.

Wiesenthal said there were "no extermination camps on German soil", he didn't say anything about no gas chambers.

It is true that there were no extermination camps on German soil and thus no mass gassings such as those that took place at Auschwitz, Treblinka and other camps. A gas chamber was in the process of being built at Dachau, but it was never completed.

Gassing did, however, take place at Mauthausen, which at that time belonged to Germany.

[he went on to mention the gas chambers in the T4 institutes]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n3p-9_Staff.html

Broszat said there were no gassings in Belsen, Buchenwald or Dachau, he didn't refer to the alleged gas chambers of Neuengamme, nor Ravensbrueck, Sachsenhausen (both then in Soviet East Germany) and Mauthausen (Austria).

Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed. The gas chamber in Dachau was never entirely finished or put "into operation."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n3p12_Broszat.html

As has been documented elsewhere, the Dachau museum rewrote history in the early noughties when they began to claim that some experimental or test gassings did occur there, although they deliberately give the impression to tourists that the gas chamber was used frequently.

[Dresden]

The Rabbit said:

"Who is your youtube adversary Atigun, it's not timpovikings is it?"

He changed his user name to "GinSkimPivot" several months ago; it's an anagram of "timpovikings".

Here is his YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/GinSkimPivot

The way he cusses and calls names, he reminds me of someone else who anagrams his name (hint...hint).

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

He changed his user name to "GinSkimPivot" several months ago; it's an anagram of "timpovikings".

He was also using the GinSkimPivot account 4 years when I used to duel with him. I think I recall seeing a comment from him a year-or-so ago when he stated his timpovikings account had been suspended due to someone putting in a complaint about him.

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

O'Keefe quotes Dr. Larson as saying, "never was a case of poison gas uncovered." However, in the purported Wichita Eagle article, it says that, "...death by gassing and shooting were rare." Is there anyone who can resolve the difference between O'Keefe and the purported original article?

[emph. added]

There is no difference. Your youtube opponent has confirmed that the article does state what O'Keefe claimed it did.

“They worked these people to death.” He said. Fed on potato peelings, inadequately clothed and packed into shacks, they died of every known disease, he said. “In one camp, 90% died of TB. It went from shack to shack.” Larson said that in Southern Germany, where he served, autopsies showed that death by gassing and shooting were rare. Never was a case of poisoning uncovered, he said.

Perhaps you mean it's a contradiction.

At Dachau, Larson performed hundreds of autopsies and had the organs from 30 or 40 bodies examined in a French laboratory, but in no case did he or his colleagues find evidence that any of these people had died because of gas or poison.

Despite this, Larson still claimed:

in my opinion, only a relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner [death by gas chamber].

It is slightly odd he should say that, but as Hannover said, perhaps he was just "engaging in damage control / spin in order to avoid controversy", especially since he'd just uttered a career-suicide phrase:

What we’ve heard is that 6 million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax.

You should ask your youtube opponent if he believes that any gassings took place at Dachau in 1945. Because from approx 1960-2003, the story pushed by the Dachau museum and dozens of supposed authorities, was that no gassings ever took place at Dachau. Now the museum, and those up-to-speed with them, claim that only a few test gassings occurred there in early 1944. So when Larson arrived at Dachau in May 1945, no one is supposed to have been gassed at Dachau for over a year.

[Atigun]

Yes, Rabbit, Timpovikings aka GinSkimPivot aka Scummy Is the fellow. So, it would seem that Dr. Larson was of the opinion that some of the dead were killed with poison gas but had no autopsy reports listing cause of death as poison gas. It's also stated that,

"He autopsied only those bodies that appeared to have died questionably."

It would seem that death by poison gas would certainly fall in the category of questionable deaths.

Then we have the statement by Dr. Larson,

"However, we did probe into such questions as, 'What happened to those prisoners who became psychotic and developed a serious mental disease after internment at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with them?"

It would seem that Dr. Larson's conclusion that "some" prisoners died as the result of poison gas is the result of a non-medical investigation into camp lore. He did medically investigate the camp lore that prisoners had been administered poison by sending tissue samples from 30-40 cadavers to a laboratory for toxicological analysis. Results were negative.

The good Doctor's statement that "some" inmates, notably the terminally ill, the mentally ill and the incorrigible were killed with poison gas is based on hearsay rather than medical fact. It's also seems obvious that Dr. Larson made no categorical statement that nobody was killed at Dachau with poison gas.

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

It's also seems obvious that Dr. Larson made no categorical statement that nobody was killed at Dachau with poison gas.

True, but O'Keefe didn't claim that Larson made any such statement. And If Timpovikings is arguing O'Keefe misportrayed what Larson said, he should explain his reasoning behind insisting there's truth behind Larson's claim:

But, in my opinion, only a relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner [death by gas chamber].

Because the handful alleged victims of the gas chamber would have had their bodies cremated over a year before Larson rolled into Dachau.

[Atigun]

That's good to hear, Rabbit, I was under the mistaken impression that O'Keefe had attributed a nonexistent quote to Dr. Larson. At any rate, it was pretty much a side issue that Scummy was trying to use as a means to deflect away from the main discussion. That was the physical impossibilities of the Treblinka narrative. I eventually got him cornered on that and now he has apparently "left the building." I'm sure he will turn up elsewhere sometime. Just curious but has he ever tried posting on CODOH? He seems to be frightened to death of this forum.