Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

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Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:54 am)

A look into the New York Times archives on Auschwitz:

Inquiry Confirms Nazi Death Camps
1,715,000 Jews said to have been put to death by the Germans up to April 15

By Daniel T. Brigham
By Telephone to the New York Times
[July 3, 1944] [page 3]

This article article has the distinction of being the first time the word "Auschwitz" ever appeared in the pages of the New York Times, despite the camp existing for over four years by that point, under German authority and under that German name. The word 'Auschwitz' had never appeared, but the camp had made scattered appearances under its Polish name (more on that momentarily).

If you read the July 3 '44 article, you'll see the Auschwitz legend in close to its mature form:

Inquiry Confirms Nazi Death Camps 1715000 Jews said to have been put to death - New York Times - July 3 1944.png

It has elsewhere been reported that the ultimate source of the information in this report is Vrba and Wetzler, two Jewish Auschwitz inmates who escaped in April 1944 and began circulating gassing claims, finding a receptive audience and relishing their instant celebrity. Their sensational claims were passed up anti-Nazi networks' informational chains-of-command until percolating all the way to the pages of the New York Times within a few weeks. But the gassings claims only got space on page 3 and page 5, never page 1, which suggests to me the editors didn't believe them.

(Vrba himself was later at the Zundel Holocaust trial as a witness for the Holocaust Belief side.)

What about its Polish spelling, "Oswiecim"? That made nine appearances in the NYT between June 1941 and June 1944.

One from as late as January 1944 is a book review of The Black Book of Polish Jewry, a book which purported to document the dissolution-and/or-destruction of Polish Jews during the years since the 1939 Germany-Poland war, and which the New York Times headlined "Chapter and Verse of the Nazi Pogrom." The curious thing here is that while it does mention Oswiecim (only in its Polish name), it only says that "tens of thousands" of Jews had been sent there and "destroyed."

Only one article which uses "Oswiecim" and mentions gassings predates the July 3 article, and it only predates it by two weeks:

Czechs Report Massacre
Claim the Nazis Killed 7,000 in Prison Gas Chambers
[June 20, 1944] [page 5]

Czechs Report Massacre - Claim the Nazis killed 7000 in prison gas chambers - June 20 1944.png

Who is this "young Pole who had been imprisoned in both camps" who "confirm[ed] the existence of these gas chambers"?

The "report received from inside Europe" I believe also refers to the Vrba and Wetzler report claiming gassings, which they came up with a few weeks earlier.

On June 25, we see another Auschwitz gassing claim appearing in the pages of the New York Times. It specifies that "victims come from all groups," but Jews were given first place:

New Mass Executions in Poland Reported
Victims Come From All Groups, Underground Says
[June 25, 1944] [page 5]

New Mass Executions in Poland Reported - June 25 1944.png

Notice it says 100,000 Jews had been "sent to Auschwitz for execution." By 1946, this would become millions.

Notice also the prominence given to prisoners-of-war among those supposedly being gassed. One thing you notice in anti-Nazi atrocity propaganda closer to the war is how prisoners-of-war were given much more attention than Jews. In our time, no one remembers the Nazis for mistreating or killing prisoners-of-war, only for killing Jews. Plus maybe a handful of miscellaneous groups like Gypsies or Jehovah's Witnesses, but primarily Jews.
___________________

In line with another recent thread (Oswiecim - Camp of Death, 1944 booklet), earlier reports about Auschwitz did not mention Jews at all:

250 Poles Report Dying Daily in Camp
Exiled Government Gives Data on Oswiecim Prison
[March 8, 1943]

250 Poles Reporting Dying Daily in Camp - March 8 1943.png

Notice the wording of the causes of deaths at Auschwitz/Oswiecim in this March 1943 article: "[E]xecutions, inhuman treatment, hunger and epidemics" (all of which had then, or would have within the next two years, relatively good basis in reality, but the question of scale is debatable). Not only is there no gassing claim being made by this time, Jews are not even mentioned. A characteristic example of the kinds of people being shipped to Auschwitz in this brief March 1943 article are "sixty Polish miners."

This began to change only in summer 1944, as shown above, and then solidified in 1945/6.

___________________

A word on context: Recall what was going on in June and July 1944 when the first NYT Auschwitz gassing claims surface (albeit off the front pages). D-Day had occurred June 6 and the eventual British and American military conquest of Europe up to the Elbe was in motion. But -- at the time these two reports appeared in the New York Times, the whole thing was still stuck in Normandy, awaiting the breakout in August.

With the American-led coalition's military-industrial machine looking unstoppable, the outlines of the future world order were becoming clear, if they had the will to carry on the war until the end. Atrocity claims would be even more useful than usual at this stage, to give the fuel to continue the war and to justify a post-war new order under American leadership. People with a perceived stake in this can be forgiven for running with what was available, all kinds of atrocity stories. The one (of many) that would eventually become the "hegemonic" WWII narrative we see make its first meek appearances in June and July 1944.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:35 am)

A clarification and extension of the story of "Auschwitz in the New York Times":

Besides the handful of appearances in mid-1944 discussed above (none of which were on page 1) -- and which, apparently, largely or entirely trace to the April and May 1944 activities of two Jewish activists (Vrba and Wetzler) who escaped from Auschwitz after long internment there -- there were no further mentions of any gassings or killings at Auschwitz in the New York Times until late November 1944.

On November 26 (the Sunday after the US holiday of Thanksgiving 1944), this story ran on Page 1:

U.S. Board Bears Atrocity Details Told by Witnesses at Polish Camps
By John H. Crider
Special to the New York Times
[Nov. 26, 1944]

US Board bare Atrocity Details Told by Witnesses at Polish Camps - November 26 1944.png

This one now looks even closer to the final form of the immediate Auschwitz claim, but there are still key differences ("Jews and Christians alike"), in addition to the by-now obvious atrocity inflation going on.

As to why they would 'escalate' the unsubstantiated gassing claims previously reported but glossed over? Another look towards the military- and global-geopolitical situation would be useful. I don't know exactly when the War Refugee Board was preparing this report but in any case it's some time in the summer to November 1944 window, when the outcome of the war was still in doubt (if obvious in retrospect). The US Army was still fighting over Belgium. The first entry of a US attack force onto Belgian soil was in early September 1944; the final withdrawal of the last German troops from Belgian soil coming in early February 1945, a five-month slog in what took the Germans 18 days in 1940. Most observers must have believed the war's outcome was still highly uncertain.

In any case, this Nov. 1944 report was a big step in "systematizing" the Auschwitz myth, from the mid-1944 handful of downplayed mentions that bear the hallmarks of "any blunt object a brawling man finds lying around with which to strike his opponent, and which will be discarded after the brawl," to the ominous capital-lettered The Holocaust as we know it in our time.

This "War Refugee Board Report" of November 1944 is discussed by Mattogno here:

Jean-Claude Pressac and the War Refugee Board Report
Journal of Historical Review, Volume 10, No. 4 (Winter 1990-91)

[see also PDF of the full issue hosted at CODOH -- article begins on in-text numbered page 461 and PDF page 78]

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Archie » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:29 pm)

Right, these reports raise the same issue as the Camp of Death booklet.

This is another good one: "Deliberate Nazi Murder Policy Is Bared by Allied Official Body," NYT, 27 August 1943, page 7

Within the article, it says one million Jews have been exterminated in the past three years. Yet it also says this about Auschwitz: "Conditions are particularly severe at the Oswiecim camp where 58,000 people are believed to have perished." Yet another source from pre-1944 that talks about an extermination program and that inconveniently implies Auschwitz wasn't part of it.

The Black Book of Polish Jewry from 1943 that you mention is another good source that highlights this same problem. From page 116,

Adding together the population of all Ghettos, including the Ghetto of Warsaw where scarcely more than a few thousand Jews were left, and the population of all Jewish towns, we arrive at a figure of no more than 1,200,000 Jews who may be now living in the territory of the Government General. If to this figure be added a maximum of 200,000 Jews left in the German-incorporated territories of Poland, then a figure of 1,400,000 is obtained for the entire territory of Poland. Since the original population was 2,130,000, it appears that some 900,000 to 1,000,000 Jews were either killed by the Germans in the second half of 1942 or were deported to the East under the conditions described above and which mean the extermination of all these people within a very short period.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.48624

Much of it is not in accordance with the later Holocaust narrative. The numbers are too low and there's really nothing about Auschwitz, among other problems. Below is Wikipedia trying to spin by saying it was based on old data. Even if it's only 1942 data, the numbers are still too low since that was supposed to be the worst year. According to Dalton's "death matrix" you need about 2M deaths in 1942 just in the camps to make the numbers work.

The 1943 estimates of how many Jews have died in General Government, are based on data collected while the Holocaust was still in progress, mostly from the preceding year.[1][pp. 200–201] Notably, the Birkenau killing installations are missing from the book entirely, and only the concentration camps quota from 1942 are partially summarized. Nevertheless, it estimates the loss of over 700,000 Jewish lives directly due to Nazi persecution.[1][3]

The Report correctly identified Treblinka, Bełżec, and Sobibór, as extermination camps where prisoners were killed by means of poison gas..

And then they cite some hilarious mental gymnastics from academic historian Michael Fleming.
According to Michael Fleming, neither the editor, Jacob Apenszlak, nor his collaborators, stated the true scale and manner of the Holocaust in Poland, seeking to elicit empathy from an American public which at that time "was marked by a high level of antisemitism".[3] Fleming further wrote that "the fate of Polish Jewry was narrated without, in the most part, reference to the death camps". He attributed those issues to self-censorship and compromises made to satisfy the "US censorship and propaganda organs".

Fleming's strange explanation would require us to believe that the Allied "censorship" was fine with them claiming Treblinka as an extermination but not Auschwitz and fine with saying 1M deaths but not 2M or 3M even though all these claims are qualitatively very similar. Fleming has a book Auschwitz, the Allies and Censorship of the Holocaust. It looks like a more recent version of the Martin Gilbert book. The Amazon blurb says, "In a fascinating new study, the author reveals that the Allies had extensive knowledge of the mass killing of Jews at Auschwitz much earlier than previously thought; but the publicising of this information was actively discouraged in Britain and the US." In other words: the Allied governments didn't really believe this stuff.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Archie » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:54 pm)

Another point is that the big Auschwitz story surfaces in summer of 1944 but then you have the delay until November when it's back in the news thanks to the War Refugee Board. One might naively suppose that in the meantime, the WRB was busy corroborating all the information and that perhaps this could explain the delay. But I've never seen anything to suggest any of the sort. Rather it seems that Morgenthau released it opportunistically.

"David Irving Exposes the Vrba-Wetzler Report"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9920

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Hektor » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:37 pm)

Archie wrote:Another point is that the big Auschwitz story surfaces in summer of 1944 but then you have the delay until November when it's back in the news thanks to the War Refugee Board. One might naively suppose that in the meantime, the WRB was busy corroborating all the information and that perhaps this could explain the delay. But I've never seen anything to suggest any of the sort. Rather it seems that Morgenthau released it opportunistically.

"David Irving Exposes the Vrba-Wetzler Report"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9920


Internal communications of Allied intelligence services regarding the issue would be interesting. But I think we have to be patient there.
On the other hand we have e.g. radio addresses from German turncoats like Paul Tillich (Protestant Theologian):
https://archive.org/details/WarTimeRadi ... 9/mode/2up
Mind you those are radio addresses he made from the US during the 1940s.
He mentions "death trains", but I didn't find Auschwitz mentioned in name or homicidal gassings. Shootings are mentioned.
Anyway, ask yourself how Mr. Tillich could have possibly known about this, since he stayed in America.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:00 pm)

Archie wrote:"David Irving Exposes the Vrba-Wetzler Report"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9920

Not surprised to see that the Irving video on Vrba-Wetzler has been banned from Youtube.

Is there another copy up somewhere? I find nothing of this kind at Bitchute.

the big Auschwitz story surfaces in summer of 1944 but then you have the delay until November when it's back in the news thanks to the War Refugee Board. One might naively suppose that in the meantime, the WRB was busy corroborating all the information and that perhaps this could explain the delay. But I've never seen anything to suggest any of the sort. Rather it seems that Morgenthau released it opportunistically.

This is a key point; thanks for stressing it.

Reporting the mass exterminations at Auschwitz gas chambers preliminarily, and then, zero...nothing...for five months, not even a single off-hand reference, would seem really weird to those steeped in the viewing of WWII through the Holocaust lens, as are most people (under age 70?) living today. To me it points to the editors not believing the story and wanting to maintain the dignity of their newspaper.

During wartime you can excuse some exuberance by the newsmen, but maybe what happened here is the editors decided they really didn't want the New York Times to get the black-mark of being known for a long time after the war ended as "those guys who fell for a gas-chamber hoax and pushed it so hard," so they backed away from it and other sensationalistic claims. (They couldn't predict how influential the Auschwitz gas-chamber rumors would end up being, but they looked non-credible in mid-1944.)

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Archie » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:33 pm)

Sannhet wrote:Not surprised to see that the Irving video on Vrba-Wetzler has been banned from Youtube.

Is there another copy up somewhere? I find nothing of this kind at Bitchute.


Check out the very last post in thread. I posted a Bitchute video of the same speech.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Archie » 2 years 9 months ago (Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:40 pm)

Hektor wrote:Internal communications of Allied intelligence services regarding the issue would be interesting. But I think we have to be patient there.
On the other hand we have e.g. radio addresses from German turncoats like Paul Tillich (Protestant Theologian):
https://archive.org/details/WarTimeRadi ... 9/mode/2up
Mind you those are radio addresses he made from the US during the 1940s.
He mentions "death trains", but I didn't find Auschwitz mentioned in name or homicidal gassings. Shootings are mentioned.
Anyway, ask yourself how Mr. Tillich could have possibly known about this, since he stayed in America.


I don’t know which of those archives are available but I’ve seen quite a few quotes indicating skepticism of the extermination stories within the US State Department etc. Actually, you can find some of this in mainstream holocaust books by Jewish authors. They usually do it to try to guilt trip people for “not doing enough.” Revisionists find the same quotes useful because they show that the claims were not seen as credible.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby PrudentRegret » 2 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:32 am)

Sannhet wrote:A clarification and extension of the story of "Auschwitz in the New York Times":

Besides the handful of appearances in mid-1944 discussed above (none of which were on page 1) -- and which, apparently, largely or entirely trace to the April and May 1944 activities of two Jewish activists (Vrba and Wetzler) who escaped from Auschwitz after long internment there -- there were no further mentions of any gassings or killings at Auschwitz in the New York Times until late November 1944.

...

As to why they would 'escalate' the unsubstantiated gassing claims previously reported but glossed over?

...

In any case, this Nov. 1944 report was a big step in "systematizing" the Auschwitz myth, from the mid-1944 handful of downplayed mentions that bear the hallmarks of "any blunt object a brawling man finds lying around with which to strike his opponent, and which will be discarded after the brawl," to the ominous capital-lettered The Holocaust as we know it in our time.



A key series of events took place between the vague references to gassing in mid-1944 and the release of the "War Refugee Board Report" in November 1944.

Image
The Illustrated London News, October 14, 1944, p. 442

Late July 1944

  • The Soviet army conquered Majdanek on July 24, 1944.

August 1944

  • From August 10-12 a series of articles in the Red Star was published by Soviet journalist Constantin Simonov containing allegations of gassing at Majdanek.

Simonov collected eyewitness accounts of homicidal gassings, having been one of the first on the scene after liberation.

The naked people stood closely next to each other; they didn't take up much room. 250 people were packed together into 40 square meters of surface area. They were driven inside. The steel door was shut, and the cracks stuffed with clay to provide a hermetic seal. A special team wearing gas masks introduced the Zyklon contents of the round cans into the adjacent chamber through the pipes. 'Zyklon' consists of small blue crystals, harmless in appearance. Upon contact with oxygen, however, it immediately begins to release poisonous gas, simultaneously affecting all the vital centers of the human body. Zyklon was introduced through the pipes.[70] The SS man directing the operation turned on the light switch; looking through the little window, the SS man watched the entire suffocation procedure, which, as gathered from various eyewitness reports, lasted between 2 and 10 minutes. Looking through the window, he could see everything without danger: the cruelly distorted faces of the dying, the gradual effect of the gas. The peephole for the executioners is located in just the right spot, at eye level. When the victims died, the observer didn't need to look down, since the victims didn't fall down after their death. The gas chamber was in fact, full to the brim, so that the dead stood standing motionless".

This early description of gassing as Majdanek doesn’t describe Zyklon B being dropped into holes in the ceiling, it describes Zyklon being introduced through the small pipes in this room, which is technically impossible and no longer claimed to be the way such gassing occurred.

  • The "Polish-Soviet commission" conducted and released an investigation on Majdanek in August 1944. In an August press conference, the deputy chairman of the Polish-Soviet commission declared that the Germans killed 2,000,000 people at Majdanek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqFFYag ... u.be&t=343

  • The Polish-Soviet commission, in their August 1944 investigation, declared the existence of 7 homicidal gas chambers operated with Zyklon B and with carbon monoxide gas. 5 of those 7 have been revised and are no longer gas chambers in official historiography.

  • The alleged gas chambers had crudely-cut holes for introducing Zyklon B
:

      The Majdanek crematorium, no longer alleged to be a gas chamber:
      Image
      Chamber II, no longer alleged to be a gas chamber:
      Image
      Chamber I, still alleged to be a gas chamber (despite the lack of Prussian Blue in the chamber):
      Image

    Crucially, Siminov did not mention the existence of this crudely cut hole in Chamber I in his inspection of the room, despite describing in great detail the (real) vent in Chamber IV. The implication is that these holes were added at a later date.

October 1944

  • Most interesting of all is this photograph published in The Illustrated London News in October 1944. This photograph proves beyond doubt that the "Zyklon chimney" allegation of homicidal gassing was fully formed before the release of the War Refugee Board Report in November 1944, and months before the liberation of Auschwitz in 1945:

    Image

      This photograph was taken by the (real) ventilation shaft of a facility for drying laundry. It is no longer alleged to have been a gas chamber, and it is conceded that this is not a "Zyklon chimney".

      What is so striking is that this Soviet Army man is demonstrating the exact alleged operation of Krema I in Auschwitz... What an interesting coincidence that this Soviet Army man is doing a demonstration of gassing that never happened in Majdanek, but coincidentally demonstrating the operation of the gas chambers at Auschwitz, which were not even liberated yet!

      In a separate post I posited the "Soviet Army Man" dilemma for believers:

      Either:

        1. The Soviet-Polish committee was wrong, or lied, about the use of such chimneys at Majdanek to introduce Zyklon B into gas chambers for the purpose of killing inmates, but, by sheer coincidence their false conclusions aligned with the true operation of the gas chambers in the yet-to-be-liberated Auschwitz.

      OR

        2. Majdanek was a prototype for the "homicidal gas chamber" claim that was then applied to Auschwitz after it had been invented and published at Majdanek in 1944.


      viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12898&p=94793#p94793

It seems very likely that the mid-1944 rumors published in various newspapers informed the atrocity propaganda fabricated by the Soviets in August 1944 at Majdanek. These more-fully-formed atrocity claims from the Soviet-Polish Commission in turn heavily influenced the War Refugee Report in November 1944, which contains more specific allegations of the operation of the gas chambers which must be modeled after the false "Zyklon chimney" claims propagated by the Soviets no later than October 1944.

Wikipedia notes:

After the camp takeover, in August 1944 the Soviets protected the camp area and convened a special Polish-Soviet commission, to investigate and document the crimes against humanity committed at Majdanek.[32] This effort constitutes one of the first attempts to document the Nazi war crimes in Eastern Europe.


This effort propelled the gas chamber claims at Auschwitz to the front page of the New York times. Majdanek was a model, a prototype, for what was to be alleged later at Auschwitz.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:09 am)

PrudentRegret wrote:It seems very likely that the mid-1944 rumors published in various newspapers informed the atrocity propaganda fabricated by the Soviets in August 1944 at Majdanek. These more-fully-formed atrocity claims from the Soviet-Polish Commission in turn heavily influenced the War Refugee Report in November 1944, which contains more specific allegations of the operation of the gas chambers which must be modeled after the false "Zyklon chimney" claims propagated by the Soviets no later than October 1944.

[...]

This effort propelled the gas chamber claims at Auschwitz to the front page of the New York times. Majdanek was a model, a prototype, for what was to be alleged later at Auschwitz.

PrudentRegret, excellent and useful points. Thank you.

Helpful here might be a "motive-means-opportunity" analysis/discussion on why the Soviets escalated gassing claims in the period you describe. It was a mega-libel and there were people consciously and deliberately lying as part of it, or people who were pretty sure that what they were pushing was not true -- but pushed it anyway.

The extermination-gassing stories were themselves a crime, and crimes (in this case a mega-libel, which sticks with us 75+ years later and which is why we are reading and writing these words today) must fit the three conditions of: motive, means, opportunity.

  • The 'opportunity' (to escalate the mass-extermination-gassing stories): It looks to be the liberation of some concentration camps.

  • The 'means': Newspaper stories based on supposed eyewitness accounts and official or quasi-official government-sponsored inquiries, published with the full backing of the state apparatus and state-aligned media (which was all legal media in the USSR's case).

  • The 'motive' for the Soviets: I see two separate, if overlapping, goals for the Soviet state-apparatus for why exactly then, both associated with their rapidly approaching conquest of Eastern and Central Europe:
    • One: An escalation was needed at this time to justify Soviet geopolitical goals, including annexation of territory and the "satellitization" of non-Soviet countries in Eastern and Central Europe, up to the heart of Germany and the Czech-Bavarian border and down through the Balkans.
    • Two: Given their rapidly approaching position for co-world leadership, they needed to make sure the atrocity stories being attributed to the Nazis exceeded those known to be used by the Soviet state itself throughout its entire history up to that time, the millions of unnecessary deaths and systematized use of terror, the semi-artificial famines, the gulags, the forced relocations including of entire ethnic groups.
    • Outcome: Both goals succeeded in their time, and the mass-gassing stories played their part. We of the old NATO bloc who speak English point to the Holocaust's role in (by our time, certainly) underpinning the entire "Good War myth," but the Russians/Soviets had and still have their own version of the same.
As for the New York Times' role, you are no doubt right that there was an "escalation spiral" going on in 1944, and Archie is no doubt right that the reason we see no more reports at all in the Times for five months is the editors refused to print them because they were unworthy of the dignity of a serious newspaper, even in wartime. The big post-Thanksgiving 1944 escalation seems abrupt but may just be the editors finally lifting the gate to allow this kind of thing through.

Archie points to Morgenthau may have been personally responsible for the War Refugee Board report, so add to that whatever opportunistic motives he may have had at the moment, but no single individual is responsible for the Holocaust myth.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:43 am)

Archie wrote:
Sannhet wrote:Not surprised to see that the Irving video on Vrba-Wetzler has been banned from Youtube.

Is there another copy up somewhere? I find nothing of this kind at Bitchute.


Check out the very last post in thread. I posted a Bitchute video of the same speech.

Thanks! (direct link to post):



In case this ever goes down, it is a David Irving speech at Toronto, I believe in mid-August 1988, which was during one of Irving's US archival research tours. He had previously been in Toronto in April that year for the Zundel Holocaust trial. I don't know the exact setting and it's not clear from the recording. Originally released by Ernst Zundel on VHS. Zundel's VHS publishing outfit, Samisdat, titled the talk "David Irving: A British historian examines the 'Holocaust'."

Irving begins his speech with the words:

Meine sehr geehrter Damen und Herren. Ladies and gentlemen. I intend speaking to you in English this evening, as I am sure most of you understand English. Ich werde aber dazwischen einige Woerter deutsch einflechten, I will occasionally use a few words of German, to make the Germans among you feel at home.

Irving slams the Holocaust throughout the speech and says he is planning an Auschwitz book which would come out in a few years, i.e., the early 1990s. It appears that project never made it.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Archie » 2 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:47 am)

NYT ran this story on Majdanek. It actually made page one, although not as the main story.
"Nazi Atrocities Laid Bare in Camp," by W.H. Lawrence, NYT, 30 August 1944. page 1

The Soviets had been giving tours of the camps and this Lawrence guy seems to to have really fallen for it.

There is one sentence that says a lot more than perhaps the author realized: "After inspection of Maidanek, I am now prepared to believe any story of German atrocities, no matter how savage, cruel and depraved."

Also amusing is the description of the gassing procedure. Because of the arrangement of the rooms, they had to say that they bathed everyone first and then gassed them. They explained this odd procedure as follows: "We were told the victims always received a bath in advance of execution because the hot water opened the pores and generally improved the speed with which the poison gas took effect."

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby PrudentRegret » 2 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:14 pm)

Archie wrote:Also amusing is the description of the gassing procedure. Because of the arrangement of the rooms, they had to say that they bathed everyone first and then gassed them. They explained this odd procedure as follows: "We were told the victims always received a bath in advance of execution because the hot water opened the pores and generally improved the speed with which the poison gas took effect."


There are accounts of Majdanek tours where this is still told to visitors:

According to a guide at Majdanek, prisoners were given hot showers before being gassed, because the Germans believed that the hotter the body, the quicker the death. Presumably, the Nazi captors weren’t concerned about a quick and painless experience but with the efficiency of the process and the conservation of their resources.


https://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/10/ ... in-poland/

Ridiculous.

Eric Hunt discovered that a blueprint of "Bath and Disinfection II" shows the layout of the rooms is the opposite of the tour:

http://vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/Image86.gif

The eingang (entrance) is on the right and ausgang (exit) on the left.

The deception is explained in this image:

Image

Bath and Disinfection I was connected to the gas chambers by a new structure built post-liberation in Soviet-occupied Poland in 1946. This means the Majdanek tour moves in the opposite direction of the real building layout, with rooms mislabeled along the way. The implication of this is that tourists today enter through what was actually the exit and walk towards the gas chambers at the end of the facility (which had been connected by a new structure built in Soviet-occupied Poland). In reality, inmates walked through the entrance and away from the gas chambers, or fumigation rooms, as they bathed and had their clothes disinfected. They left through the exit at the main part of the camp.

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 9 months ago (Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:47 am)

Sannhet wrote:it is a David Irving speech at Toronto, I believe in mid-August 1988, which was during one of Irving's US archival research tours. He had previously been in Toronto in April that year for the Zundel Holocaust trial. I don't know the exact setting and it's not clear from the recording. Originally released by Ernst Zundel on VHS. Zundel's VHS publishing outfit, Samisdat, titled the talk "David Irving: A British historian examines the 'Holocaust'." [...]

Irving slams the Holocaust throughout the speech and says he is planning an Auschwitz book which would come out in a few years, i.e., the early 1990s. It appears that project never made it.

I should add here that the three members of the War Refugee Board were:

Cordell Hull, Henry Stimson, Henry Morgenthau.

Hull, the Secretary of State, was sick at the time and would resign due to ill health just one week after the report claiming extermination gas chambers was released.

Stimson, the Secretary of War, was a major "hawk" on US involvement in the war(s) of Europe throughout 1939, 1940, and 1941, and became Secretary of War in July 1940 (his final government position after a long career; he retired in Sept. 1945). Stimson may not have pushed these stories on his own authority.

Morgenthau, the mastermind of this gas chamber press release, the first of real importance and the first time the US government seems to have endorsed the gassing claims, did not even inform the other two that he was publishing the report out. Hull, in any case, was incapacitated by illness; Stimson was both unaware and angry, taken by surprise by a kind of sneak-attack over a holiday weekend (US Thanksgiving). Morgenthau was at this time pushing his Morgenthau Plan of a "Carthaginian Peace" with Germany, which Stimson opposed.

See the Irving video linked to above, in a section starting at the 20:20 mark (ending at 22:45), on Stimson's total unawareness of the report which was issued in his name (!).

Irving found, buried in an archive, a transcript of a phone conversation Morgenthau and Stimson had on the day the report was released. Stimson says he only learned of the War Refugee Board report on gas chambers via newspapers. Stimson says he was "mortified by not knowing anything about it." He angrily rebukes Morgenthau for his action in publishing such a thing and complains the report was released "without anyone showing it to me," and that he "ought to know about it, particularly when you and I are the only two members of the committee!" (referring to the incapacitation of Hull by illness).

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Re: Earliest mentions of Auschwitz gassings in the New York Times: June 20, June 25, and July 3, 1944

Postby Archie » 2 years 9 months ago (Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:00 pm)

Has anyone tracked down the actual transcript of the Stimson-Morgenthau conversation Irving refers to? It would be good to have a solid citation for it.

Maybe here?
https://www.fdrlibrary.org/


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