rarely mentioned statements on 'gas chambers'

[Juan]

I'd like to know the source for those "clean" testimonies. Thanks

[elvistheelf]

Working from memory (I am away from my library at present), I believe that there were showers in the "Reception Centre" at Auschwitz I, where new arrivals were inducted before the arrival of the mass transports (and perhaps even after the arrival of the mass transports).
These showers are a considerable physical distance from the kremas of Auschwitz-Birkenau, as well as being in what is essentially a different camp from the kremas.

Elvis.

[grenadier]

You can read the testimony of Maria Vanherwaarden in the book "Report of the evidence in the Canadian ' false news' trial of Ernst Zundel - 1988". It is available for free download on the internet.
Best regards.

[Turpitz]

What a thought! If you took away the pitiful few and highly dubious documents and the crap greasy Vbra and the other twenty "professional eyewitnesses" belch, the industry would cease to exist. Physically and practically the industry is completely devoid of any ammo, the bareness of the shelves is stark. This should be alarming to a rational mind, considering the nature of the accusations.

[kk]

As to my 'sophistry", I say (all in good sport, piss-off !)

My thought is this - Why and how should anyone's stated experience under Nazi control be treated differently than any one else's stated experience.

All I'm saying is if you throw out one account then, by necessity, you must throw out the rest.

IT IS a 'sophistry'.
Eyewitnesses with a contrary statement are among the standard weapons of
both the prosecution and the defence.

Since the testimonies of the exterminationist witnesses have been long taken
apart and shredded to nothingness by the revisionists, these testimonies serve
only to strengthen the revisionist thesis, because two contrary statements can NOT
be true at the same time.

Your argument dear Semplance7 is, I think, a fallacy known as "Tu quoque". ("You too"). Read: 'If my witnesses are liars, so are yours'.

PS:

-A fallacy is an irrational argument-

[Hotzenplotz]

My final point - then I'll stand down on this one:

Where would Maria Vanherwaarden have taken a shower? Were there such facilities for new arrivals? (I'm asking because I truly don't know.)

Yes, showers had to be taken upon entering a camp routinely. See for quotes from Elie Wiesel's The Night:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2223
section (3)

[Richard Perle]

Don't be hard on semblance. I get the impression that at the very least he is a skeptic of the holocaust, and he is trying to play devil's advocate which I feel is very useful.

[steve]

Because of a complete lack of physical evidence, the Big H lobby relies on 'eye-witness' testimony.
Mostly all one hears are totally insane tales of German cruelty, including gassings.

Now, I don't think anyone is claiming there were no gassings merely on the basis of testimony.
But we have testimony from people who were at the camps who claim they did not see any gassings.
The most natural thing is to mention them.

Now, Semblance, read some of the usual testimony and read the few that support no gassings. In general, who sounds more believable? Actually, can you produce one statement from a Big H witness that does not, in some way, sound insane? I do not think I have ever seen one.

Motive: If I were put into a camp against my will, I would probably be quite pissed at my captors. So, the only way I would claim something decent about them (i.e., no gassings), is if I was indeed telling the truth. The point is, there is more of a reason to believe a 'No gassings' eye-witness, than the usual "I saw gassings' witness.

Richard:

...and he is trying to play devil's advocate which I feel is very useful.

I disagree. While playing Devil's Advocate may be a good thing at times, Semblance7's point here was rather weak.

[ClaudiaRothenbach]

Yet another eyewitness on the "gas chambers" - Schreiber is not equivocating:

In an eyewitness statement made recently, one of the master builders at Auschwitz, Walter Schreiber, stated as follows on the planning of these crematoria:

Question: In which positions were you active?

Answer: As supervising engineer, I inspected the Huta Corporation and dealt with the Zentralbauleitung of the SS. I also audited the invoices of our firm.

Q.: Did you enter the camp? How did that happen?

A.: Yes. One could walk everywhere without hindrance on the streets of the camp and was only stopped by the guards upon entering and leaving the camp.

Q.: Did you see or hear anything about killings or mistreatment of inmates?

A.: No. But lines of inmates in a relatively poor general condition could be seen on the streets of the camp.

Q.: What did the Corporation build?

A.: Among other things, crematoria II and III with the large morgues.

Q.: The prevalent opinion is that these large morgues were gas chambers for mass killings.

A.: Nothing of the sort could be deduced from the plans made available to us. The detailed plans and provisional invoices drawn up by us refer to these rooms as ordinary cellars.

Q.: Do you know anything about introduction hatches in the reinforced concrete ceilings?

A.: No, nothing more from memory. But since these cellars were also intended to serve the auxiliary purpose of air raid shelters, introduction holes would have been counter-productive. I would certainly have expressed an objection to such an arrangement.

Q.: Why were such large cellars built, when the water table in Birkenau was so extremely high?

A.: I don't know. Originally, however, above-ground morgues were to be built. The construction of the cellars caused great problems in retention and sealing.

Q.: Would it be conceivable that you were deceived and that the SS nevertheless had gas chambers to be built by your firm without your knowledge?

A.: Anyone who knows anything about what happens on a building site knows that that is impossible.

Q.: Do you know any gas chambers?

A.: Naturally. Everyone in the east knew about disinfection chambers. We also built disinfection chambers, which look quite different. We built such installations and knew what they looked like, even after the necessary installations. As a building firm, we often had work to do after installation of the machinery...

Q.: When did you learn that your firm was supposed to have built gas chambers for industrial mass killing?

A.: Only after the end of the war.

Q.: Weren't you quite amazed about it?

A.: Yes! After the war I made contact with my former boss in Germany and asked him about it.

Q.: What did you learn?

A.: He also only learned about it after the war, but he assured me that the Huta Corporation certainly did not build the cellars in question as gas chambers.

Q.: Would building alterations be conceivable after the withdrawal of the Huta Corporation?

A.: Conceivable, sure, but I would rule that out on the basis of time factors. After all, they would have needed corporations again, the SS couldn't do that on their own, even with inmates. Based on the technical requirements for the operation of a gas chamber, which only became known to me later, the building erected by us would have been entirely unsuited for the purpose in regard to the necessary machinery and practicable operation.

Q.: Why didn't you publish that?

A.: After the war, first, I had other problems. And now it is no longer permitted.

Q.: Have you been interrogated as a witness in this matter?

A.: No Allied, German, or Austrian agency has ever taken an interest in my knowledge of the construction of crematoria II and III, I or my other activity in the former general government. I was never interrogated in this matter, although my services for the Huta Corporation were known. I mentioned them in all my later CVs and recruitment applications. Since knowledge of the facts is dangerous, however, I never felt any urge to disseminate it. But now, when the lies are getting increasingly bolder and contemporary witnesses like myself are slowly but surely dying off, I am glad that someone is willing to listen and set down the way it really was. I have serious heart trouble and can die at any moment, it's time now.

Source: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/5.html#5.4.

[Radar]

Personally I support a systematic gathering of ALL "eyewitness" testimonies. Every one welcome. For Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc. Separate them into each alleged killing area and method; line them up, compare them, examine them in light of each other, known facts and scientific possibilities. Let them speak for themselves. Gassing with various methods, Jewish soap, atomic bombing, let's hear every story. The result will be the most damning exposure of the lies supporting "the Holocaust" of popular imagination you have ever seen. It's a big job but worthwhile.

Then we'll take up the "six million" victims.

But who will do it?

[Haldan]

But who will do it?

Günther Deckert is working on a project, where he is collecting the stories of such holycaust survivors, that managed to survive 7 or more "gassings" etc,. He is apparently concentrating on the most bizarre ones - its a start, anyway.

-haldan

[gasto]

Sorry again for bumping a thread, but I think that what Radar says is a very good idea, in order to completely demolish the idea of using witnesses testimonies as evidence to support the holohoax tale...

I haven´t heard of Günther Deckert, so it would be nice if we could gather all this testimonies and unite them, so as to compare them all, establishing a proper division from one camp to another one...

We could organize and see who would be in charge of Treblinka, one (or more people) in charge of Auschwitz, etc..

Gassing stories, execution methods, soap and lampshade tales, medical experiments....they are a must IMO..


Feedback is appreciated..
regards

[Vallon]

Yet another eyewitness on the "gas chambers" - Schreiber is not equivocating:

Q.: Why didn't you publish that?

A.: After the war, first, I had other problems. And now it is no longer permitted.

Q.: Have you been interrogated as a witness in this matter?

A.: No Allied, German, or Austrian agency has ever taken an interest in my knowledge of the construction of crematoria II and III, I or my other activity in the former general government. I was never interrogated in this matter, although my services for the Huta Corporation were known. I mentioned them in all my later CVs and recruitment applications. Since knowledge of the facts is dangerous, however, I never felt any urge to disseminate it. But now, when the lies are getting increasingly bolder and contemporary witnesses like myself are slowly but surely dying off, I am glad that someone is willing to listen and set down the way it really was. I have serious heart trouble and can die at any moment, it's time now.

Source: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/5.html#5.4.

A footnote says:

See also Werner Rademacher, "In memoriam Dipl.-Ing. Dr. techn. Walter Schreiber", VffG 4(1) (2000), pp. 104f. (online: http://www.vho.org/VffG/2000/1/Rademacher104f.html). He died in 1999.

So this comes from a recent interview with an old man, published by a revisionist after Schreiber's death. Are the tapes available?

[ClaudiaRothenbach]

You would have to contact the editor of the VffG.
Unfortunately the industry put him into prison.

You find his current address here: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2682

Germar Rudolf
JVA Stuttgart,
Asperger Str. 60,
D-70439 Stuttgart
F.R.G./ BRD
[Germany]

Good luck!