Did the most of Germans who supported Hitler remained loyal to his ideas after the war or they were brainwashed?

[sfivdf21]

As we all know, the overwhelming majority of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime and his Führer Adolf Hitler from the first to the last day of the Third Reich Era. But, what was the Postwar attitude of the most of the NSDAP Leaders, Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals and soldiers, German intellectuals who supported the Third Reich and officials of the Nationalsocialist regime particularly and the German Generations who lived through the Hitler era in general about their perception of Nationalsocialism and the Third Reich? Did the most of them remain loyal to their ideals or deny their affiliation with Nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler?
I know there were cases of people who betrayed their Nationalsocialist ideals and other cases of people who remained loyal to their Nationalsocialist ideals. But if we balance the post-war attitude of the Germans who supported Hitler, did the majority of Germans of the generations living in Hitler's time remain loyal to Nationalsocialism and the memory of the Third Reich and they were not brainwashed or did they renege and distance themselves from their support for nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler?
I also know that Germany is an occupied and oppressed country since 1945 and they haven't freedom of speech, so obviously the Germans who voted for Hitler, supported him and remained loyal after the war had to be very careful and know how to measure their words very well because the lack of freedom of expression in the FRG, but that does not mean that they renounced or distanced themselves of the Nationalsocialism.
I think it is essential to clarify this point, because to prevent fallacies of the anti-revisionists in this aspect when they try to destroy our credibility.

[Dresden]

sfivdf21 said:

"As we all know, the overwhelming majority of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime and his Führer Adolf Hitler from the first to the last day of the Third Reich Era"

Yes, the support was overwhelming.

"But, what was the Postwar attitude of the most of the NSDAP Leaders, Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals and soldiers, German intellectuals who supported the Third Reich and officials of the Nationalsocialist regime particularly and the German Generations who lived through the Hitler era in general about their perception of Nationalsocialism and the Third Reich?"

That would be impossible to know for sure, in 2020.

To get a true idea, it would have been necessary to interview thousands of Germans before it was certain that the war was lost, so as to get their true feelings.

After the war, when Germany was occupied, whatever an NS leader, general, or intellectual had to say would be virtually worthless.

"Did the most of them remain loyal to their ideals or deny their affiliation with Nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler?"

It would have been socially, if not actually, suicidal to express ones loyalty to Hitler after the war.

Rudolf Hess said, at the Nuremberg Show Trial:

"I was permitted to work for many years of my life under the greatest son whom my people has brought forth in its thousand year history.
Even if I could, I would not want to erase this period of time from my existence. I am happy to know that I have done my duty, to my people, my duty as a German, as a National Socialist, as a loyal follower of my Führer.
I do not regret anything. If I were to begin all over again, I would act just as I have acted, even if I knew that in the end I should meet a fiery death at the stake.
No matter what human beings may do, I shall some day stand before the judgment seat of the Eternal. I shall answer to Him, and I know He will judge me innocent"

Last statement by Heß to the International Military Tribunal in Nüremberg (31 August 1946)

"I think it is essential to clarify this point, because to prevent fallacies of the anti-revisionists in this aspect when they try to destroy our credibility"

I don't get what you mean ..... can you clarify that?

[Waldgänger]

A Kultur documentary from around 2002, called "Voices from Hitler's Army" (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ZOASrdJYVH), featured some interesting words from veterans. By my estimation, around 75% of German veterans in the interviews I have watched had balked at the idea of war crimes, claiming they'd never heard of this during the war. It was only after their defeat that such rumours were 'confirmed' to them. Judging from the attitude of many, they were indignant at this propaganda for the rest of their lives, and I suspect they looked back with fondness to those days.

Many people were exhausted by the War and the NSDAP policies, but the generation that were adults in the 1940s, and teenagers often too, were not easily 'denazified' in the core of their beliefs. Otto Remer - the man who effectively ended the July 20th Plot to kill Hitler - helped to found the Sozialistische Reichspartei Deutschlands in 1949. It gained 11% of the vote in Niedersachsen, or 16 seats in the Landtag there, and in the regions northwest of Bremen, that Party received over 25% of the local vote. The SRP only ever had 2 seats in the Federal Parliament, however. Many Right Wing parties did arise in 1949-1952, but were shut down by early federal laws against them.

Remember also that Adenauer, the first Chancellor (1949-1963) of West Germany after Allied occupation, was himself anti-Nazi during the 1920s-1940s, but he sought the rehabilitation of army men. He wanted a reinforced and renewed army (Bundeswehr) to defend against possible Soviet attack. This is one reason that American & British war films of the 1950s-1960s tend to portray the Germans as honourable opponents, not depicting (and only rarely mentioning) any war crimes. In my experience, it is only since the grimy Nazi exploitation of the 1970s-1980s, and the film Schindler's List (1993), that we begin to see a real backlash against the War generation in Germany. This has become very prominent and 'ramped up' since Merkel took power (2005). Many army barracks and air fields that had been named after WWII German heroes have been renamed, for example.

One cannot look at the genuine joy of men like this (from Die Deutsche Wochenschau weekly newsreel, late May 1942), and imagine that he lost his convictions about his Fatherland because of American & British 'denazification' propaganda:

[sfivdf21]

sfivdf21 said:

"As we all know, the overwhelming majority of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime and his Führer Adolf Hitler from the first to the last day of the Third Reich Era"

Yes, the support was overwhelming.

"But, what was the Postwar attitude of the most of the NSDAP Leaders, Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals and soldiers, German intellectuals who supported the Third Reich and officials of the Nationalsocialist regime particularly and the German Generations who lived through the Hitler era in general about their perception of Nationalsocialism and the Third Reich?"

That would be impossible to know for sure, in 2020.

To get a true idea, it would have been necessary to interview thousands of Germans before it was certain that the war was lost, so as to get their true feelings.

After the war, when Germany was occupied, whatever an NS leader, general, or intellectual had to say would be virtually worthless.

"Did the most of them remain loyal to their ideals or deny their affiliation with Nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler?"

It would have been socially, if not actually, suicidal to express ones loyalty to Hitler after the war.

Rudolf Hess said, at the Nuremberg Show Trial:

"I was permitted to work for many years of my life under the greatest son whom my people has brought forth in its thousand year history.
Even if I could, I would not want to erase this period of time from my existence. I am happy to know that I have done my duty, to my people, my duty as a German, as a National Socialist, as a loyal follower of my Führer.
I do not regret anything. If I were to begin all over again, I would act just as I have acted, even if I knew that in the end I should meet a fiery death at the stake.
No matter what human beings may do, I shall some day stand before the judgment seat of the Eternal. I shall answer to Him, and I know He will judge me innocent"

Last statement by Heß to the International Military Tribunal in Nüremberg (31 August 1946)

"I think it is essential to clarify this point, because to prevent fallacies of the anti-revisionists in this aspect when they try to destroy our credibility"

I don't get what you mean ..... can you clarify that?

Hello Dresden, thanks for your reply and your information.
What I mean is that I have often heard anti-revisionist supporters using arguments in conversations against revisionist supporters like: "Muh, but the most of the Germans who supported Hitler and the Nazi Regime, after the War they had repented, denied their past, did not deny the atrocities of which they were accused and did not support Holocaust Revisionism, so these evil Holocaust Deniers and Conspiracy Theorists have no basis to support his allegations" (and then they often cite people like Albert Speer, Baldur von Schirach, Carl Gustav Jung, the former Nationalsocialist poet Hans Baumann or Konrad Lorenz).
That is why I think it is important to clarify this issue and refute this anti-revisionist claim against the revisionists, because they believe that this supposed fact that they claim is a weak point for the Holocaust Revisionism. Although knowing the anti-revisionists, their many lies, and their fondness for falsifying history and demonizing the ideological opponent, for me its very hard to believe the claim that "the most of the Germans who supported Hitler and the Nazi Regime after the war renounced their Führer and his ideology" its true. The Nationalsocialism, among his many positive values, always promoted Honesty, Honor, not falling apart in the face of adversity and the unwavering Loyalty in the hard Times. An entire nation firmly supported a statesman and an ideal from the first to the last day of the Third Reich era. And not only that: also an entire generation (those German who were born in the 1920s) grew up with this ideal and those values ​​from a very young age. So I find it very hard to believe that what the anti-revisionists affirm is true (for more Denazification laws, brainwashing programs and political repression of the victors and the vassal regimes of the BRD and DDR).
But it is also true that there were traitors like Albert Speer, Baldur von Schirach, Carl Gustav Jung, Hans Baumann or Konrad Lorenz who distanced themselves from their past and his Führer, and not only that: even supported the anti-German propaganda imposed by the Jews and the Allies playing the role of the "repentant ones who supported a criminal Regime and Ideology".
But it is also true that there were also prominent Nationalsocialists like Hermann Giesler, Werner Naumann, Otto Skorzeny, the famous poet and cultural figure of the Third Reich Hanns Johst, Sepp Dietrich, Rochus Misch, Wilfred von Oven, Hans-Ulrich Rudel, Hajo Herrmann, Herbert Schweiger, Hanna Reitsch or those mentioned by the user Waldgänger and for you Rudolf Hess and Otto Ernst Remer who always remained loyal to Nationalsocialism ideology and who always defended the memory of Adolf Hitler. So things were not entirely black or white. That is why I have also decided to open a debate so that this is clarified, to try to make (as much as possible) a balance between the loyal Nacionalsocialist figures and supporters and the traitors and check which of this two groups were more numerous. Because if it were true that the number of the Germans who supported Nationalsocialism and even after the War remained loyal to the memory of Hitler and the Third Reich was bigger than the number of the Germans who supported Nationalsocialism but after 1945 reneged and distanced themselves from Hitler and the Third Reich, then the anti-revisionist claim would be fully exposed.

[Dresden]

Ok, thank you for the clarification, sfivdf21.
I misunderstood you, but now I see what you mean.

And to your list of faithfuls, you can add:

Ursula Haverbeck
Knut Hamsun
Thies Christophersen
Leon Degrelle
and many more.

[Lamprecht]

What I mean is that I have often heard anti-revisionist supporters using arguments in conversations against revisionist supporters like: "Muh, but the most of the Germans who supported Hitler and the Nazi Regime, after the War they had repented, denied their past, did not deny the atrocities of which they were accused and did not support Holocaust Revisionism, so these evil Holocaust Deniers and Conspiracy Theorists have no basis to support his allegations" (and then they often cite people like Albert Speer, Baldur von Schirach, Carl Gustav Jung, the former Nationalsocialist poet Hans Baumann or Konrad Lorenz).

They can cherry-pick all they want. It's obvious why an individual, especially one with family, would publicly renounce a regime they formerly supported [and still agree with ideologically] which was conquered, criminalized, and portrayed as the ultimate evil.

Many did in fact deny the alleged atrocities, however.

see many examples:
istheholocaustreal.com exposed -- "Why Didn't Any Nazi Deny" and the scope of the "conspiracy"
viewtopic.php?t=12287

Just a few:

Dr. Horst Pelckmann, defense counsel for the SS at Nuremberg, exposed the fact that over 97% of the SS men who mentioned "The Jewish Problem" denied that it was to be solved by extermination. On 21 August 1946:

"On the question of whether the SS members recognized the destruction of Jewry as an aim of the leaders, 1,593 out of 1,637 affidavits which mention this problem state that the Jewish problem was not to be solved by killing..."

- IMT Proceedings, vol. 21, p. 368
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/08-21-46.asp or
http://archive.is/NNQf#selection-767.424-767.646

On 27 July 1945 the Jewish Telegraphic Agency stated:

"A report from the place where major German war criminals are now confined discloses that all of them have denied that the Nazis had any plans to exterminate the Jews of Europe."

- "German War Criminals Reported to Have Denied Any Intent to Exterminate Jews"
https://archive.fo/NJgOn or
http://web.archive.org/web/201603292105 ... inate-jews
Original JTA bulletin: http://web.archive.org/web/201412102130 ... 27_171.pdf

And:

Mirror: https://archive.fo/tOVER
April 1945: As Soviet-Allied atrocity propaganda about Nazi gas chambers grows bigger and bigger, Radio Berlin denies that Nazi Germany ever had any homicidal gas chamber in its concentration camps, and adds that the German gas chambers are "merely delousing devices" using poison gas only for "sanitary purposes."


I also suggest:

The Kinderladen movement: Child oversexuality in post-WWII Germany... "Because of Auschwitz"
viewtopic.php?t=12277

[Merlin300]

Loyalty.

Is This Grandma Aware She's Saluting Hitler?

[Hektor]

As we all know, the overwhelming majority of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime and his Führer Adolf Hitler from the first to the last day of the Third Reich Era. But, what was the Postwar attitude of the most of the NSDAP Leaders, Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals and soldiers, German intellectuals who supported the Third Reich and officials of the Nationalsocialist regime particularly and the German Generations who lived through the Hitler era in general about their perception of Nationalsocialism and the Third Reich? Did the most of them remain loyal to their ideals or deny their affiliation with Nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler? ....

My educated guess is that Hitler and National Socialism had very high general approval ratings at least until 1943. (I recall the popularity of giving Adolf as a birth name to babies). A high qualified approval persisted at least into the 1960s.
The question asked went more or less like this:
" If we disregard the war and the persecution of the Jews, did National Socialism have more good than bad sides."
Apparently two/thirds gave a yes or qualified yes to that question.
This only steadily declined afterwards until it went below 5% now.

Bear in mind that the percentage of people having memories of that time was also shrinking steadily. People that were youngsters during the 1930s are almost 100 years now. If you were 18 in 1939 (old enough to be drafted into the campaign against Poland), you are 99 years now. My educated guess is that between 15.000 and 20.000 people in Germany are 99 years or older. Also note that memory tends to fade with age and that over decades those memories can also get altered and people's experience undergo reinterpretation due to "new information" they are confronted with. There is an omnipresence of reeducation efforts in Germany's media and educational system. And I hear that has gotten worse over the years. The older Germans I recall did at least have a differentiated view about the time period. Some were indeed quite supportive of National Socialism. But consider most of them did not reside in Germany, instead lived in a country where those issues weren't pushed as much by government and media. So this may likely differ from people that resided in Germany all there life.

As for Reeducation aka "Brainwashing" (both terms are actually euphemisms relating to what the communists tried to do with "class enemies") In Germany that went through several phases. There were the Allied efforts during and immediately after the war. This was partially done in a rather blunt way and it was decided to rather leave that in the hands of ethnic Germans, because if non-Germans did it, this would raise suspicion as "enemy propaganda" (which indeed it was). The early reeducation efforts were more directed against the 'undemocratic practices' of the NS-rule. The war and what became known as the Holocaust did only play a minor role. This changed in the 1960s after the Adenauer era. The focus was on 'militarism' and with the Eichmann trial as well as the Auschwitz trial in the press a shift towards "extermination of the Jews" was detectable. When the soap Opera "Holocaust" was aired in Germany in the late 1970s, this finally imprinted that narrative into the German psyche. It was the main theme, since then and the hostility is now directed against anything deemed racist, ethnocentric, nationalistic or even patriotic, especially when Germans or other White nations are suspected of this. It's enough for a German expressing love for his own culture and ethnicity to get him a hit with the Nazi-mace. There are of course more signs of fatigue, now. Since the theme is getting boring and the words are losing their emotional load as well as magic potency over time and through repetition.

Interestingly several subjects are mostly left out from dealing with National Socialism. These are:
- The social state and welfare program.
- Advancement of social mobility among Germans.
- Aspects of Economic Dirigism.
- Price controls, minimum wages
- NS-environmentalism and preventive Health
- Monetary Policy, banking and related issues
- The vast number of foreign volunteers in German forces
- The partisan warfare against German forces (and civilians)

Incidentally you will of course hear about this, but it doesn't become part of longer debates, except in some fringe forums.

Fixed themes are Hitler's evil genius, suffering of Jews (only because they were Jews of course), and of course that Hitler started the war for no reason whatsoever, but as a starting point for world conquest.

This Reeducation fits Lifton's 8 criteria of thought reform pretty well. Put it to the test if you can. Other explanatory models of brainwashing and attitude change can be found back into it, too. They also explain why it is so difficult to change the mind of staunch Holocaust believers, especially when they are of German extraction.

With the artificial Corona crisis all those things may get shaken again, since it is to be expected that trust into government, academia and media will be shaken for quite a while from now. The present German state won't survive a crisis that is only a tiny fraction of what they went through during world war two. It's even dubious, if Germany would ever recover from this fully.

[sfivdf21]

A Kultur documentary from around 2002, called "Voices from Hitler's Army" (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ZOASrdJYVH), featured some interesting words from veterans. By my estimation, around 75% of German veterans in the interviews I have watched had balked at the idea of war crimes, claiming they'd never heard of this during the war. It was only after their defeat that such rumours were 'confirmed' to them. Judging from the attitude of many, they were indignant at this propaganda for the rest of their lives, and I suspect they looked back with fondness to those days.

Many people were exhausted by the War and the NSDAP policies, but the generation that were adults in the 1940s, and teenagers often too, were not easily 'denazified' in the core of their beliefs. Otto Remer - the man who effectively ended the July 20th Plot to kill Hitler - helped to found the Sozialistische Reichspartei Deutschlands in 1949. It gained 11% of the vote in Niedersachsen, or 16 seats in the Landtag there, and in the regions northwest of Bremen, that Party received over 25% of the local vote. The SRP only ever had 2 seats in the Federal Parliament, however. Many Right Wing parties did arise in 1949-1952, but were shut down by early federal laws against them.

Remember also that Adenauer, the first Chancellor (1949-1963) of West Germany after Allied occupation, was himself anti-Nazi during the 1920s-1940s, but he sought the rehabilitation of army men. He wanted a reinforced and renewed army (Bundeswehr) to defend against possible Soviet attack. This is one reason that American & British war films of the 1950s-1960s tend to portray the Germans as honourable opponents, not depicting (and only rarely mentioning) any war crimes. In my experience, it is only since the grimy Nazi exploitation of the 1970s-1980s, and the film Schindler's List (1993), that we begin to see a real backlash against the War generation in Germany. This has become very prominent and 'ramped up' since Merkel took power (2005). Many army barracks and air fields that had been named after WWII German heroes have been renamed, for example.

One cannot look at the genuine joy of men like this (from Die Deutsche Wochenschau weekly newsreel, late May 1942), and imagine that he lost his convictions about his Fatherland because of American & British 'denazification' propaganda:

Hello Waldgänger, thanks for your reply and your information, i'll see this interessant documentary.
You say that around 75% of the German veterans of World War II who appear in this Kultur's documentary fondly remembered Hitler's time, that is, they are nostalgic for Nationalsocialism. Which is appreciated, because then these German veterans were loyal to the end (as it should always be). But you also say that most of the documentary veterans were outraged by the anti-German propaganda we all know and they had never heard of the "Holocaust" and other alleged German war crimes until after the war. In other words: they claim to have no knowledge of the "Holocaust" but they did not dare deny it either (considering the existing legislation about the "Holocaust" in almost Western Countries it seems understandable to me). So could it be said that 75% of the German veterans of WW2 who appear in this Kultur's documentary are Holocaust Revisionists?
I do not understand what you mean when you say that many Germans were exhausted by the NSDAP policies, if their policy until 1943 (when Joseph Goebbels announced that Germany would also adopt total war policy) had always been to make many pace offers and try to convince the allies that the war should to be stopped and Germany did not want a war. The NSDAP was responsible for making Germany in only four years the world's leading power (both militarily, economically, intellectually, technologically, and scientifically) and totally eradicating poverty, crime (crime rates in Germany in Hitler's era were almost nonexistent), as well creating the best social improvements for the working classes in the all history and a self-sufficient economic system that did not depend on the International Jewish Financial Tiranny (this was the real reason for the war).
It may be "politically incorrect" to say it, but the historical reality shows that Fascism and Nationalsocialism are the only political systems that have been successful. Exactly for this reason both the main capitalist powers (United States, the British Empire and France) united with their supposed communist "enemy" to destroy Nationalsocialist Germany, Fascist Italy and the Empire of Japan (although the Japanese Empire was not a fascist regime, it shared many characteristics with the european fascisms, so it had no problem allying with them).
I know the inspiring story of the German war hero Otto Ernst Remer and his unshakable loyalty to Nationalsocialism and the Führer in the Postwar Germany, and also his contribution to Historical Revisionism. It is true that at the regional level the SRP was very successful, but at the Federal level it only obtained two deputies (even the Communist Party obtained more deputies, and it is evident that the communists were and are a minority in the German people). I am convinced (although at the same time somewhat confused) that after the war, in a large part of German society survived a sociological Nationalsocialism, but taking into account that more than 90% of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime from the first to the last day and only four years later, in 1949, the main postwar German party that vindicated the legacy and the memory of the Third Reich only obtained 2 deputies. This is very suspicious to me, perhaps the federal elections from the beginning were rigged and were not clean (in this case, what I am saying is just a theory, unfortunally I don't know of any evidence that proves it, but as I have said, the fact that the Nationalsocialists went from the absolute majority and the support of more than 90% of the German people in the Hitler's era to only 2 deputies in only 4 years after the war is very suspicious to me).
I know that Konrad Adenauer, despite being an anti-German traitor, sought the rehabilitation of many Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS men to prevent a communist invasion of the part of Germany that was occupied by the Western Allies (Konrad Adenauer like the all other FRG's Chancellors and Presidents was only a puppet imposed by the anti-German occupation forces, the last legitimate German head of state was the Großadmiral Karl Dönitz, appointed successor to the Führer Adolf Hitler in his political will as the new Reichspräsident), but it is important to say that he did not do it for love of Germany (if Adenauer had loved his country he would never have opposed the Nationalsocialist regime and would not have agreed to collaborate with the Western Allies during and after the war) but because the Western Allies ordered him to make many experimented Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals, officiers and soldiers available to the Bundeswehr (the army of the FRG) to fight the communist bloc in case a war broke out in Europe between the western capitalist bloc and the eastern communist bloc.
I don't know that the American and British war films of the World War II during the 1950s and 1960s portrayed the Germans as honourable opponents. I am quite surprised considering that the American and British media and his propaganda apparatus highly promoted the infamous Nuremberg "trials" (where the "Holocaust" lie and the other alleged "German war crimes" were officially created) and at the same time also portrayed in their war films the Germans as honourable opponents (who is undoubtedly Adolf Hitler and the Nationalsocialist leadership in particular and the Germans in general were the true heroes of the Second World War). I believed that the Americans and Englishmen always portrayed the Nationalsocialists/Germans in their films during and after the war as the "evil Nazis who wanted to conquer the entire world".
Could you tell me some of these British and American war films from the 50s and 60s where they show Germans/Nationalsocialists as honourable opponents? I would like to see them, thanks in advance.

[sfivdf21]

Loyalty.

Is This Grandma Aware She's Saluting Hitler?

Hello Merlin300, thanks for your reply and your information. I know this video. Of course she know it. I wish all Germans were like this venerable and loyal old woman.I didn't say that all the Germans who supported Hitler and the Third Reich were traitors who after the war abandoned their Führer and their ideology, I know that there were many Germans who even after the war remained loyal to the memory of Hitler and were nostalgics for the Nationalsocialist regime. But unfortunately there were also traitors and cowards who distanced themselves of their support of the Third Reich and his Führer after the war. That is the reason why I have opened this debate, to clarify whether the majority of the Germans of the generations that lived through the Hitler era remained loyal after the war or denied their ideology and distanced themselves to their Führer.

[sfivdf21]

What I mean is that I have often heard anti-revisionist supporters using arguments in conversations against revisionist supporters like: "Muh, but the most of the Germans who supported Hitler and the Nazi Regime, after the War they had repented, denied their past, did not deny the atrocities of which they were accused and did not support Holocaust Revisionism, so these evil Holocaust Deniers and Conspiracy Theorists have no basis to support his allegations" (and then they often cite people like Albert Speer, Baldur von Schirach, Carl Gustav Jung, the former Nationalsocialist poet Hans Baumann or Konrad Lorenz).

They can cherry-pick all they want. It's obvious why an individual, especially one with family, would publicly renounce a regime they formerly supported [and still agree with ideologically] which was conquered, criminalized, and portrayed as the ultimate evil.

Many did in fact deny the alleged atrocities, however.

see many examples:
istheholocaustreal.com exposed -- "Why Didn't Any Nazi Deny" and the scope of the "conspiracy"
viewtopic.php?t=12287

Just a few:

Dr. Horst Pelckmann, defense counsel for the SS at Nuremberg, exposed the fact that over 97% of the SS men who mentioned "The Jewish Problem" denied that it was to be solved by extermination. On 21 August 1946:

"On the question of whether the SS members recognized the destruction of Jewry as an aim of the leaders, 1,593 out of 1,637 affidavits which mention this problem state that the Jewish problem was not to be solved by killing..."

- IMT Proceedings, vol. 21, p. 368
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/08-21-46.asp or
http://archive.is/NNQf#selection-767.424-767.646

On 27 July 1945 the Jewish Telegraphic Agency stated:

"A report from the place where major German war criminals are now confined discloses that all of them have denied that the Nazis had any plans to exterminate the Jews of Europe."

- "German War Criminals Reported to Have Denied Any Intent to Exterminate Jews"
https://archive.fo/NJgOn or
http://web.archive.org/web/201603292105 ... inate-jews
Original JTA bulletin: http://web.archive.org/web/201412102130 ... 27_171.pdf

And:

Mirror: https://archive.fo/tOVER
April 1945: As Soviet-Allied atrocity propaganda about Nazi gas chambers grows bigger and bigger, Radio Berlin denies that Nazi Germany ever had any homicidal gas chamber in its concentration camps, and adds that the German gas chambers are "merely delousing devices" using poison gas only for "sanitary purposes."


I also suggest:

The Kinderladen movement: Child oversexuality in post-WWII Germany... "Because of Auschwitz"
viewtopic.php?t=12277

Hello Lamprecht, thanks for your reply and your information. I didn't know this information, it's a pleasant surprise for me that 97% of the Nationalsocialists who mentioned the Jewish Problem had the courage to say to their Soviet and Western Allies hangmen that there had not been an "extermination of Jews", they thought that the traitors and the cowards were more. Regarding those Nationalsocialists who "confessed" that the "Holocaust" was "real" (I don't mean people like Rudolf Höss who were brutally tortured to "confess" their alleged actions, I mean traitors and cowards like Albert Speer or Baldur von Schirach who to save themselves they betrayed the rest of his former comrades) I understand your point of view, but I don't fully share it. All the Nationalsocialists who were brave and honourable and remained loyal to their Fatherland, their people, their principles, and their Führer even after defeat in the WW2 also had family. In addition to the traitors who sold themselves to the enemy, their betrayal did not benefit them much either (perhaps with the exception of Albert Speer). For example Baldur von Schirach (another of the Nationalsocialists who renounced their service to the Third Reich after the war) despite having accepted the propaganda of the "Holocaust" in the allied "courts" of Nuremberg as an "unquestionable truth" was sentenced to 20 years in prison and ended his days in a very poor health and almost living in the poverty (as a curious fact: his ex-wife Henriette, unlike her ex-husband, always remained loyal to the memory of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler, even in a debate on the notorious Austrian television program of the ORF "Club 2" to which she was invited on October 28, 1976, Henriette dared bravely vindicate the memory of the Führer by calling the Austrians in particular and the Germans in general to be proud of Adolf Hitler, it was certainly a brave and honourable act by his part).
But now that I think about it  
it's not necessary to go to the infamous Nuremberg "trials", we have a much more recent cases that are similar to those of Albert Speer and Baldur von Schirach. For example the case of the former SS “Bookkeeper of Auschwitz” Oskar Gröning a few years ago. Gröning knew perfectly well that the real and only purpose of that Show Trial to which he was subjected (like all evil "trials" to which former SS Concentration Camps guards are subjected) was to imprison him and to end his days in jail. What he said was irrelevant, he would be condemned anyway. That is why the strategy that he used of "Ok, the Holocaust was real and it was an unforgivable act but I am innocent because I did not participate in its atrocities" is not only cowardly but also absurd, because it was condemned anyway. Gröning knowing that, should have decided to be honourable and die standing saying what he evidently as a former SS guard knows perfectly well: That the "Holocaust" is a grotesque lie and Anti-German black propaganda and be brave to able to prove it in a court at a unique opportunity. Obviously he would also have been imprisoned if he had said this in the court that tried him, but at least he would have ended his days with a clear conscience and also, if he had exposed the myth of the Holocaust in court giving his witness as the former “Bookkeeper of Auschwitz”, he would have It has been a great contribution to Holocaust Revisionism and a terrible blow for the propagandists of the Holocaust lie. But having said that "the Holocaust took place and it was an unjustifiable act but I am innocent because I did not participate in its atrocities" what he did was lose his dignity, be jailed anyway, and have made his contribution to anti-revisionist propaganda.
I am convinced that if there had been no people like Albert Speer, Baldur von Schirach, Carl Gustav Jung (although after the war he tried to deny it he was always a National Socialist enthusiast in Hitler's time), Hans Baumann, Konrad Lorenz or Oskar Gröning who after the war betrayed his comrades and somehow collaborated with the propaganda of the victors, perhaps the lie of the "Holocaust" would not have been so successful. 

[sfivdf21]

As we all know, the overwhelming majority of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime and his Führer Adolf Hitler from the first to the last day of the Third Reich Era. But, what was the Postwar attitude of the most of the NSDAP Leaders, Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals and soldiers, German intellectuals who supported the Third Reich and officials of the Nationalsocialist regime particularly and the German Generations who lived through the Hitler era in general about their perception of Nationalsocialism and the Third Reich? Did the most of them remain loyal to their ideals or deny their affiliation with Nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler? ....

My educated guess is that Hitler and National Socialism had very high general approval ratings at least until 1943. (I recall the popularity of giving Adolf as a birth name to babies). A high qualified approval persisted at least into the 1960s.
The question asked went more or less like this:
" If we disregard the war and the persecution of the Jews, did National Socialism have more good than bad sides."
Apparently two/thirds gave a yes or qualified yes to that question.
This only steadily declined afterwards until it went below 5% now.

Bear in mind that the percentage of people having memories of that time was also shrinking steadily. People that were youngsters during the 1930s are almost 100 years now. If you were 18 in 1939 (old enough to be drafted into the campaign against Poland), you are 99 years now. My educated guess is that between 15.000 and 20.000 people in Germany are 99 years or older. Also note that memory tends to fade with age and that over decades those memories can also get altered and people's experience undergo reinterpretation due to "new information" they are confronted with. There is an omnipresence of reeducation efforts in Germany's media and educational system. And I hear that has gotten worse over the years. The older Germans I recall did at least have a differentiated view about the time period. Some were indeed quite supportive of National Socialism. But consider most of them did not reside in Germany, instead lived in a country where those issues weren't pushed as much by government and media. So this may likely differ from people that resided in Germany all there life.

As for Reeducation aka "Brainwashing" (both terms are actually euphemisms relating to what the communists tried to do with "class enemies") In Germany that went through several phases. There were the Allied efforts during and immediately after the war. This was partially done in a rather blunt way and it was decided to rather leave that in the hands of ethnic Germans, because if non-Germans did it, this would raise suspicion as "enemy propaganda" (which indeed it was). The early reeducation efforts were more directed against the 'undemocratic practices' of the NS-rule. The war and what became known as the Holocaust did only play a minor role. This changed in the 1960s after the Adenauer era. The focus was on 'militarism' and with the Eichmann trial as well as the Auschwitz trial in the press a shift towards "extermination of the Jews" was detectable. When the soap Opera "Holocaust" was aired in Germany in the late 1970s, this finally imprinted that narrative into the German psyche. It was the main theme, since then and the hostility is now directed against anything deemed racist, ethnocentric, nationalistic or even patriotic, especially when Germans or other White nations are suspected of this. It's enough for a German expressing love for his own culture and ethnicity to get him a hit with the Nazi-mace. There are of course more signs of fatigue, now. Since the theme is getting boring and the words are losing their emotional load as well as magic potency over time and through repetition.

Interestingly several subjects are mostly left out from dealing with National Socialism. These are:
- The social state and welfare program.
- Advancement of social mobility among Germans.
- Aspects of Economic Dirigism.
- Price controls, minimum wages
- NS-environmentalism and preventive Health
- Monetary Policy, banking and related issues
- The vast number of foreign volunteers in German forces
- The partisan warfare against German forces (and civilians)

Incidentally you will of course hear about this, but it doesn't become part of longer debates, except in some fringe forums.

Fixed themes are Hitler's evil genius, suffering of Jews (only because they were Jews of course), and of course that Hitler started the war for no reason whatsoever, but as a starting point for world conquest.

This Reeducation fits Lifton's 8 criteria of thought reform pretty well. Put it to the test if you can. Other explanatory models of brainwashing and attitude change can be found back into it, too. They also explain why it is so difficult to change the mind of staunch Holocaust believers, especially when they are of German extraction.

With the artificial Corona crisis all those things may get shaken again, since it is to be expected that trust into government, academia and media will be shaken for quite a while from now. The present German state won't survive a crisis that is only a tiny fraction of what they went through during world war two. It's even dubious, if Germany would ever recover from this fully.

Hello Hektor, thanks for your reply and your information.
I don't know the fact of the Allied occupation forces and their puppet rulers of the BRD and DDR surveyed the Germans about their perception of Nationalsocialism after the war.
Could you pass me these surveys or tell me where I can find it? I would really appreciate, thanks in advance.
It's evident that with the passing of the decades, the generations that lived through the Third Reich era are disappearing. Today are alive only those Germans who grew up during Hitler's era and who were very young when the war ended (and they are now more than 93 years old in 2020) and those Germans who were babies or little children when the war ended and the Third Reich was collapsed (and they are now more than 80 years old in 2020 and that given their very young age at that time, they have very few memories of what they lived in the Third Reich era).
I know that memory tends to fade with age and with the pass of the decades those memories can also be altered by reinterpreting the "new information" (brainwashing/social engineering). But I agree with user Waldgänger when he claims that unlike post-war generations (and perhaps also the generation that was born during the 1930s and therefore were very young children during the time of Nationalsocialism and the Second World War) the generations that were adults and the generations that were teenagers during the Hitler era were not brainwashed, they lived that era and they know perfectly what is the historical truth about the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler. There were brave people of these generations who remained loyal to his ideals, who continued defending the memory of his Führer and who did not believe the anti-German propaganda of the "Holocaust" but unfortunately among these generations there were also traitors of who distanced themselves from their support for Hitler and accepted the anti-German propaganda of the "Holocaust" and the German "guilt" in World War II (in other words: they were intentionally lying). Precisely for this reason I have opened the debate on this post asking if among the German generations that lived through the Hitler era there were more people who did not renounce their ideology and their Führer or if there were more people who distanced themselves from their support for the NSDAP and accepted the "guilt" of Germany.
Unfortunately, it's true that Germany is an occupied and oppressed country since 1945 and that is the reason why there is a clear omnipresence to try to brainwash the German people so that they accept the lie of the "Holocaust" and the "guilt" of Germany as historical facts and also a brutal repression against the Nationalsocialist ideals and the historical revisionism about the Third Reich and WW2. It is therefore evident that due to the Orwellian ideological persecution by the part of the authorities of the anti-German vassal regime of the FRG, the Germans who remained loyal to Nationalsocialism and to the memory of Hitler after the war had to show their support for the Führer and their nostalgia for the Third Reich in a very discreet way, but the fact that they had to be very careful to measure their words in supporting Nationalsocialism to avoid the persecution and censorship does not mean that they stopped doing so.
It's also evident that the Germans and Nationalsocialists from other countries who continued to support Nationalsocialism after the war but who decided to go to countries where there was more freedom of speech were those who defended the memory of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler more openly and more directly (for example Otto Skorzeny and León Degrelle when they were exiled in Spain under the support and protection of the Generalísimo Francisco Franco, Otto Ernst Remer during his exile in Egypt or Hans-Ulrich Rudel and Wilfred von Oven when they lived in Argentina) but that doesn't mean that the German Nationalsocialists postwar activists living in Germany stopped defending Nationalsocialism and Hitler's memory due to the fact that they had much less freedom, as I said before they also vindicated the Third Reich but in a more discreet way. In any case, I think that the majority of the postwar Nationalsocialist activists remained in Germany, because those who left Germany were a minority due the most of the Nationalsocialists who went into exile were those that the Allies unfairly described as " nazi war criminals (what were the "crimes" they committed?), I speak of people like Josef Mengele, Adolf Eichmann, Walter Rauff, Aribert Heim, Klaus Barbie, Alois Brunner etc.
Indeed, fewer and fewer Germans of the postwar generations no longer believe the "Holocaust" lie (if I remember correctly, Ursula Haverbeck said in her famous interview on the "Panorama" program that she has the impression that the majority of the Germans who are reasonable at least they doubt it highgly, those were her exact words).
Totally agree with you. I find it totally outrageous not only that Adolf Hitler and the German people are slandered with the lie of the "Holocaust" and the so-called "guilt" of Germany but also that they omit to talk about all the social and economic achievements of the NSDAP Governament, especially during the glorious 6 years of peace (from 1933 to 1939). Adolf Hitler not only lifted Germany out of poverty, corruption and Jewish financial tyranny but also made his country the world's leading power... And only in 4 years! Something unique in history. Adolf Hitler is undoubtedly the greatest German national hero of all time and the glorious 6 years of peace and freedom of the Third Reich has been the best time in all entire German history, perhaps it is "politically incorrect" to say but this is the historical reality.
Thank you for the information on the explanatory facts on the operation of the effect that brainwashing has on a population.
It's true, the worst and most intransigent "Holocaust" believers are the believers who are Germans (although as Ursula Haverbeck said there are also many Germans who do not believe in the "Holocaust" lie). But they are also the ones who we must be convince that they have been deceived by a enemy propaganda.
And certainly the Corona crisis is probably going to destroy the occupation regime of the FRG, I hope it. The FRG is (along with Israel) without a doubt the most evil and inhuman government and political regime that exists today. But I remain optimistic about the recovery of Germany, because the recovery of Germany will only really be possible when the FRG whould be collapse. Perhaps even the result of this great crisis looming is the return of Nationalsocialism to power (Savitri Devi already predicted it after the war, she said that when the current political system reached its maximum point of decline the return of Nationalsocialism would be inevitable).

[sfivdf21]

As we all know, the overwhelming majority of the German people supported the Nationalsocialist regime and his Führer Adolf Hitler from the first to the last day of the Third Reich Era. But, what was the Postwar attitude of the most of the NSDAP Leaders, Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS generals and soldiers, German intellectuals who supported the Third Reich and officials of the Nationalsocialist regime particularly and the German Generations who lived through the Hitler era in general about their perception of Nationalsocialism and the Third Reich? Did the most of them remain loyal to their ideals or deny their affiliation with Nationalsocialism and Adolf Hitler? ....

My educated guess is that Hitler and National Socialism had very high general approval ratings at least until 1943. (I recall the popularity of giving Adolf as a birth name to babies). A high qualified approval persisted at least into the 1960s.
The question asked went more or less like this:
" If we disregard the war and the persecution of the Jews, did National Socialism have more good than bad sides."
Apparently two/thirds gave a yes or qualified yes to that question.
This only steadily declined afterwards until it went below 5% now.

Bear in mind that the percentage of people having memories of that time was also shrinking steadily. People that were youngsters during the 1930s are almost 100 years now. If you were 18 in 1939 (old enough to be drafted into the campaign against Poland), you are 99 years now. My educated guess is that between 15.000 and 20.000 people in Germany are 99 years or older. Also note that memory tends to fade with age and that over decades those memories can also get altered and people's experience undergo reinterpretation due to "new information" they are confronted with. There is an omnipresence of reeducation efforts in Germany's media and educational system. And I hear that has gotten worse over the years. The older Germans I recall did at least have a differentiated view about the time period. Some were indeed quite supportive of National Socialism. But consider most of them did not reside in Germany, instead lived in a country where those issues weren't pushed as much by government and media. So this may likely differ from people that resided in Germany all there life.

As for Reeducation aka "Brainwashing" (both terms are actually euphemisms relating to what the communists tried to do with "class enemies") In Germany that went through several phases. There were the Allied efforts during and immediately after the war. This was partially done in a rather blunt way and it was decided to rather leave that in the hands of ethnic Germans, because if non-Germans did it, this would raise suspicion as "enemy propaganda" (which indeed it was). The early reeducation efforts were more directed against the 'undemocratic practices' of the NS-rule. The war and what became known as the Holocaust did only play a minor role. This changed in the 1960s after the Adenauer era. The focus was on 'militarism' and with the Eichmann trial as well as the Auschwitz trial in the press a shift towards "extermination of the Jews" was detectable. When the soap Opera "Holocaust" was aired in Germany in the late 1970s, this finally imprinted that narrative into the German psyche. It was the main theme, since then and the hostility is now directed against anything deemed racist, ethnocentric, nationalistic or even patriotic, especially when Germans or other White nations are suspected of this. It's enough for a German expressing love for his own culture and ethnicity to get him a hit with the Nazi-mace. There are of course more signs of fatigue, now. Since the theme is getting boring and the words are losing their emotional load as well as magic potency over time and through repetition.

Interestingly several subjects are mostly left out from dealing with National Socialism. These are:
- The social state and welfare program.
- Advancement of social mobility among Germans.
- Aspects of Economic Dirigism.
- Price controls, minimum wages
- NS-environmentalism and preventive Health
- Monetary Policy, banking and related issues
- The vast number of foreign volunteers in German forces
- The partisan warfare against German forces (and civilians)

Incidentally you will of course hear about this, but it doesn't become part of longer debates, except in some fringe forums.

Fixed themes are Hitler's evil genius, suffering of Jews (only because they were Jews of course), and of course that Hitler started the war for no reason whatsoever, but as a starting point for world conquest.

This Reeducation fits Lifton's 8 criteria of thought reform pretty well. Put it to the test if you can. Other explanatory models of brainwashing and attitude change can be found back into it, too. They also explain why it is so difficult to change the mind of staunch Holocaust believers, especially when they are of German extraction.

With the artificial Corona crisis all those things may get shaken again, since it is to be expected that trust into government, academia and media will be shaken for quite a while from now. The present German state won't survive a crisis that is only a tiny fraction of what they went through during world war two. It's even dubious, if Germany would ever recover from this fully.

Hello Hektor, thanks for your reply and your information.
I don't know the fact of the Allied occupation forces and their puppet rulers of the BRD and DDR surveyed the Germans about their perception of Nationalsocialism after the war.
Could you pass me these surveys or tell me where I can find it? I would really appreciate, thanks in advance.
It's evident that with the passing of the decades, the generations that lived through the Third Reich era are disappearing. Today are alive only those Germans who grew up during Hitler's era and who were very young when the war ended (and they are now more than 93 years old in 2020) and those Germans who were babies or little children when the war ended and the Third Reich was collapsed (and they are now more than 80 years old in 2020 and that given their very young age at that time, they have very few memories of what they lived in the Third Reich era).

I know that memory tends to fade with age and with the pass of the decades those memories can also be altered by reinterpreting the "new information" (brainwashing/social engineering). But I agree with user Waldgänger when he claims that unlike post-war generations (and perhaps also the generation that was born during the 1930s and therefore were very young children during the time of Nationalsocialism and the Second World War) the generations that were adults and the generations that were teenagers during the Hitler era were not brainwashed, they lived that era and they know perfectly what is the historical truth about the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler. There were brave people of these generations who remained loyal to his ideals, who continued defending the memory of his Führer and who did not believe the anti-German propaganda of the "Holocaust" but unfortunately among these generations there were also traitors of who distanced themselves from their support for Hitler and accepted the anti-German propaganda of the "Holocaust" and the German "guilt" in World War II (in other words: they were intentionally lying). Precisely for this reason I have opened the debate on this post asking if among the German generations that lived through the Hitler era there were more people who did not renounce their ideology and their Führer or if there were more people who distanced themselves from their support for the NSDAP and accepted the "guilt" of Germany.

Unfortunately, it's true that Germany is an occupied and oppressed country since 1945 and that is the reason why there is a clear omnipresence to try to brainwash the German people so that they accept the lie of the "Holocaust" and the "guilt" of Germany as historical facts and also a brutal repression against the Nationalsocialist ideals and the historical revisionism about the Third Reich and WW2. It is therefore evident that due to the Orwellian ideological persecution by the part of the authorities of the anti-German vassal regime of the FRG, the Germans who remained loyal to Nationalsocialism and to the memory of Hitler after the war had to show their support for the Führer and their nostalgia for the Third Reich in a very discreet way, but the fact that they had to be very careful to measure their words in supporting Nationalsocialism to avoid the persecution and censorship does not mean that they stopped doing so.

It's also evident that the Germans and Nationalsocialists from other countries who continued to support Nationalsocialism after the war but who decided to go to countries where there was more freedom of speech were those who defended the memory of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler more openly and more directly (for example Otto Skorzeny and León Degrelle when they were exiled in Spain under the support and protection of the Generalísimo Francisco Franco, Otto Ernst Remer during his exile in Egypt or Hans-Ulrich Rudel and Wilfred von Oven when they lived in Argentina) but that doesn't mean that the German Nationalsocialists postwar activists living in Germany stopped defending Nationalsocialism and Hitler's memory due to the fact that they had much less freedom, as I said before they also vindicated the Third Reich but in a more discreet way. In any case, I think that the majority of the postwar Nationalsocialist activists remained in Germany, because those who left Germany were a minority due the most of the Nationalsocialists who went into exile were those that the Allies unfairly described as " nazi war criminals (what were the "crimes" they committed?), I speak of people like Josef Mengele, Adolf Eichmann, Walter Rauff, Aribert Heim, Klaus Barbie, Alois Brunner etc.
Indeed, fewer and fewer Germans of the postwar generations no longer believe the "Holocaust" lie (if I remember correctly, Ursula Haverbeck said in her famous interview on the "Panorama" program that she has the impression that the majority of the Germans who are reasonable at least they doubt it highgly, those were her exact words).

Totally agree with you. I find it totally outrageous not only that Adolf Hitler and the German people are slandered with the lie of the "Holocaust" and the so-called "guilt" of Germany but also that they omit to talk about all the social and economic achievements of the NSDAP Governament, especially during the glorious 6 years of peace (from 1933 to 1939). Adolf Hitler not only lifted Germany out of poverty, corruption and Jewish financial tyranny but also made his country the world's leading power... And only in 4 years! Something unique in history. Adolf Hitler is undoubtedly the greatest German national hero of all time and the glorious 6 years of peace and freedom of the Third Reich has been the best time in all entire German history, perhaps it is "politically incorrect" to say but this is the historical reality.

Thank you for the information on the explanatory facts on the operation of the effect that brainwashing has on a population.
It's true, the worst and most intransigent "Holocaust" believers are the believers who are Germans (although as Ursula Haverbeck said there are also many Germans who do not believe in the "Holocaust" lie). But they are also the ones who we must be convince that they have been deceived by a enemy propaganda.

And certainly the Corona crisis is probably going to destroy the occupation regime of the FRG, I hope it. The FRG is (along with Israel) without a doubt the most evil and inhuman government and political regime that exists today. But I remain optimistic about the recovery of Germany, because the recovery of Germany will only really be possible when the FRG whould be collapse. Perhaps even the result of this great crisis looming is the return of Nationalsocialism to power (Savitri Devi already predicted it after the war, she said that when the current political system reached its maximum point of decline the return of Nationalsocialism would be inevitable).

[sfivdf21]

A Kultur documentary from around 2002, called "Voices from Hitler's Army" (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ZOASrdJYVH), featured some interesting words from veterans. By my estimation, around 75% of German veterans in the interviews I have watched had balked at the idea of war crimes, claiming they'd never heard of this during the war. It was only after their defeat that such rumours were 'confirmed' to them. Judging from the attitude of many, they were indignant at this propaganda for the rest of their lives, and I suspect they looked back with fondness to those days.

Many people were exhausted by the War and the NSDAP policies, but the generation that were adults in the 1940s, and teenagers often too, were not easily 'denazified' in the core of their beliefs. Otto Remer - the man who effectively ended the July 20th Plot to kill Hitler - helped to found the Sozialistische Reichspartei Deutschlands in 1949. It gained 11% of the vote in Niedersachsen, or 16 seats in the Landtag there, and in the regions northwest of Bremen, that Party received over 25% of the local vote. The SRP only ever had 2 seats in the Federal Parliament, however. Many Right Wing parties did arise in 1949-1952, but were shut down by early federal laws against them.

Remember also that Adenauer, the first Chancellor (1949-1963) of West Germany after Allied occupation, was himself anti-Nazi during the 1920s-1940s, but he sought the rehabilitation of army men. He wanted a reinforced and renewed army (Bundeswehr) to defend against possible Soviet attack. This is one reason that American & British war films of the 1950s-1960s tend to portray the Germans as honourable opponents, not depicting (and only rarely mentioning) any war crimes. In my experience, it is only since the grimy Nazi exploitation of the 1970s-1980s, and the film Schindler's List (1993), that we begin to see a real backlash against the War generation in Germany. This has become very prominent and 'ramped up' since Merkel took power (2005). Many army barracks and air fields that had been named after WWII German heroes have been renamed, for example.

One cannot look at the genuine joy of men like this (from Die Deutsche Wochenschau weekly newsreel, late May 1942), and imagine that he lost his convictions about his Fatherland because of American & British 'denazification' propaganda:

Hello again Waldgänger, yesterday I saw the Kultur documentary called called "Voices from Hitler's Army" and I was terribly disappointed, with a mixture of anger and sadness. The "documentary" is the same typicall mainstream trash, it all comes down to: "Hitler was very evil, he started the war and he wanted to conquer the whole World". But the worst of all was what some interviewed German veterans said (especially in the last chapter called "Defending Berlin: The Last Battles").
Below I quote the most outrageous claims made by some interviewed veterans: - (2:25 - 2:40) "Together we learned that Hitler had shot himself, that "our powerful father" was gone, we felt that we had been left behind, absolutely abandoned, he had deserted us, and what now"?
In other words: this disgusting and ungrateful veteran literally accuses Adolf Hitler of having "deserted and abandoned" the German people by committing suicide when the war was already lost.

Obviously that is a grotesque lie, Hitler NEVER "abandoned" the German people, he simply committed suicide to avoid being tortured, humiliated in an illegitimate allied "court" to finally be murdered as it happened to many other Nationalsocialist leaders in the infamous Nuremberg "trials". Whether he committed suicide or not, it is irrelevant. It was clear that Hitler wouldn't have any chance to survive in the postwar period. Before committing suicide, Hitler redacted a political testament to designate the men who he considered most able of being his successors and trying to rebuild Germany once again (the result of Hitler's political testament was the Karl Dönitz government, which was quickly dismantled by the Allied occupation forces). If Hitler had really "abandoned" the German people, he would not have decided to stay in Berlin and fight to the end, if Hitler had really "abandoned" the German people, he would not have bothered to write a political testament to designate those men who he considered most competent to lead the German nation after his death. Adolf Hitler fought heroically his entire life for Germany, he made his country the world's leading power in only four years, he was able to totally eradicated unemployment and poverty, he saved Germany from the clutches of Judeo-Bolshevism and when he lost a war that he never wanted (and it was certainly not his fault that Germany lost the war) he gave his life for his people. this veteran is a very ungrateful, very deceitful and very miserable to clam that Hitler "abandoned and deserted" the German people (especially when the one who says it is a man who VOLUNTARILY served in the army that the Führer leaded).

Hitler made it very clear in his political testament why he decided to commit suicide and EXPRESSED HIS THANK to the German people for remaining loyal until the end: "After six years of war (which despite obstacles will one day be remembered as the most glorious and braveful demostration of a nation's life purpose) I cannot leave the city that is the capital of this Reich. As the forces are too small to attempt any opposition against enemy attacks, and because our resistance is has been weakening by the men who have deceived us with their lack of initiative, by staying in this cityI WANT TO SHARE MY DESTINY WITH THE MILLIONS OF OTHER MEN WHO HAVE DECIDED TO DO THE SAME.
Nor do I want to fall into the hands of an enemy, who will want to present a new show organized by the Jews, to the delight of the hysterical masses.
Therefore I have decided to remain in Berlin and freely choose death at the moment that I believe that the position of the Führer and the Chancellery itself could not be defended any more.
I die with a happy heart, aware of the incalculable legacies and achievements of our soldiers at the front, our women at home, the achievements of our peasants and workers in their work, unique in history, of the youths who bear my name.
To them, from the bottom of my heart, I express my gratitude, as it is evident is my desire that you, because of that, under no circumstances abandon the fight in this contest but rather continue it, against the enemies of our mother homeland, no matter where, faithful to the Clausewitz creed. From the sacrifice of our soldiers and through my communion with them in death, the seed of the radiant rebirth of the Nationalsocialist movement and therefore of a true community of nations will never disappear from the history of Germany.
Many of the brave men and women have decided to unite their lives with mine. Until the last moment I have begged and finally ordered them not to do it and take part in the last battle of the nation. I have asked the leaders of the Army, Navy and Luftwaffe to reinforce by all means the spirit of resistance of our soldiers in the Nationalsocialist sense, with special reference to the fact that I myself, as the creator and founder of that movement, I have preferred death to the cowardly abdication or worse the capitulation.
It must, in the future, be part of the honor code of the German officer, as it is currently of our navy, that to surrender a district or a city is impossible, and that above all, our leaders must march to the front as brilliant examples, fulfilling with faith in his obligation until death. "
- Adolf Hitler in his political will.

- (40:04 - 40:38) We heared that, "our Führer and Chancellor of the Empire, Adolf Hitler has been killed in action at the front line in the service of the Fatherland", we thought, thank God, the war is over. That was our impulse. We didn't regret the fact that he was no longer alive. We didn't know whether he had committed suicide or not but I can't imagine that he fought; we were relieved. We had know for weeks that we could no longer win the war, and we wanted to get out in one piece rather than lose our own lives at the very end.
Another interviewed veteran shows his cowardice, lack of honesty and ingratitude. He says he felt no sadness and was even relieved when he knowed that the Führer was dead, I was really very anger when I heard him to say that. The least that any decent German (and especially those Germans who served in the armed forces) must have felt sadness when they knowed that Hitler was dead. As I said before, Hitler did countless positive things for the German people (achieving enormous successes that are unique in the human history in a very few years) and he dedicated his entire life to fighting for the freedom of his people. The least that any decent German must have felt at the time his death was announced is sadness, not relief. And indeed the overwhelming majority of Germans reacted to the Hitler's dead anouncement with great sadness. Only a traitor could have been relieved when he knowed that Hitler was death. Relief from what? Of being his country destroyed by his enemies? Of losing their freedom and their national sovereignty? Of leaving Germany in ruins and with millions of dead? It is understandable that at the end of the war when everything was lost, the first thing that worries him was surviving, but one thing does not take away the other. And the fact that he was concerned with surviving and being safe does not justify that many decades after the war he turned up to be interviewed in a mainstream propaganda "documentary" smearing and scorning the man who served his people to the last consequences and the same man that when he was enlisted to the army swore loyalty to him. As much as one is concerned with surviving and for do it sometimes must having to adapt to unpleasant things, it does not mean that it is admissible to renounce certain moral principles such as gratitude and loyalty.

- (22:59 - 23:28) The two bodies hanging from the street lamps in Berlin, I have never forgotten them. The bodies had signs hanging on them saying: "I have to hang here, because I, as a Lieutnant, didn't come back from captivity". They were left hanging there for several days as a deterrent. That scared off soldiers who would rather stay alive than be hung.
If I didn't get it wrong, this interviewed veteran is accusing the German leaders of doing what the Soviets really did with their own troops: executing every soldier who dared to retreat and disobey orders. What I would have liked to ask this traitor and liar is that if the Nationalsocialist leaders at the end of the war were really executing all those German soldiers who decided to withdraw ... So why was there no military revolt against the dying Nationalsocialist regime or were there massive desertions towards on the Western Allied and Soviet side? Because if this had been the case, millions of German soldiers would have saved themselves from being executed, captured and having to pass through allied "courts" of dubious legitimacy.

- (21:43 - 22:14) We were morally equipped by the German propaganda and couldn't imagine that we would lose the war, we simply shut it out because the thought was unimaginable and because the propaganda hat let us know in the most dreadful terms what the Allies were supposed to have in a store for us.
Here another intervievew veteran says that if even with the lost war the German people continued to fight and remained loyal to the Nationalsocialist regime, it was because of the successful message of Nationalsocialist propaganda regarding what the Allies would do to the German people if they win the war.
In other words: this veteran blames the Nationalsocialist propaganda of scaring the German people by telling them that the abominable crimes and abuses that the Western Allies and the Soviets would commit against the defeated German people after the war if they won whould be the "peace" and the postwar period a hell. I wonder... Wasn't that so? Did the Allies not commit monstrous atrocieties and abuses against the German people during and after the war? Did the Allies not take away from the German people their national sovereignty? Did the Allies not defame the German people and their Nationalsocialist leadership in the most evil ways possible (and they still to do so)? I can only answer those questions in the following way: Unfortunately of course.

- (46:34 - 46:57) Why did the Russians commit so many rapes and murders? The reason; we started it, we killed millions of people there, we burned down towns and villages. The Russians' behaviour is understandable. Terrible but understandable.
Without a doubt this ist the most miserable and outrageous claim in the entire "documentary". For me is really hard to believe that someone so liar and hostile to his own people was serve in the German armed forces during the Second World War.
This interviewed veteran is literally validating all the anti-German propaganda that was invented by the enemies AGAINST HE FOUGHT to demonize his own country and commit all kinds of atrocities against the Germans with the excuse: "they deserved it for murderers", because that is what he has really done. He has justified the murder, rape and torture of millions of his German compatriots (and probably including some people in his own family). For me is really hard to believe that these words came from the mouth of a German WW2 veteran, what a shame.

Regarding the atrocities that his comrades-in-arms allegedly committed:
- The "Holocaust", it is not necessary to say anything about it, as we all know in this forum it is a lie and anti-German propaganda.
- The burning of Russian villages and towns: the German soldiers did not burn Russian villages and towns, it was the Bolsheviks themselves who did this by direct order of Stalin with the aim of leaving nothing that could serve the Germans as food or supply. Those Stalin orders certainly caused the death of millions of Russian civilians but it was the fault of the communists, not of the armed forces who he served.
- And I wonder if the Germans "killed" millions of Russians... So why did many Russian civilians in 1941 received the German soldiers as heroes and liberators (there are many pictures and footages that document this)?

And finally I wonder if the Nationalsocialist regime and Hitler were so bad... So why did he decide to serve them VOLUNTARILY until the end?
I have been terribly disappointed when I have seen this documentary, I hope that the views of these veterans are a minority among the German WW2 veterans and that the majority of the German WW2 veterans continue to defend the honor and the memory of Adolf Hitler and the regime that they decided to serve and they have not distanced themselves from the Führer and Nationalsocialism. Do you think this is so (I wish with all my heart that it is so, because if the majority of German WW2 veterans have the same points of view as those that appear in the documentary, it would lead me to another terrible disappointment)?
Well, I would like to know what you think about it, greetings and thanks in advance.