Proof of planned Holodomor

[empirestatebuilding]

In debates with communists online I have been challenged multiple times to provide proof of the Holodomor. I have been unable to do so. what proof do we have that the Holdomor occurred and that it was deliberate?

[Lamprecht]

Have you tried reading some books and reports on the topic? Unfortunately, a lot of the information is in foreign languages. Soviet documents naturally would be in Russian, and since they are old someone would have to translate them.

I did find a website that has a lot of information, and it does have an English language feature.

Check out any random page, such as: http://resource.history.org.ua/item/0013353
Then choose the language as so, using the dropdown next to the magnifying glass


It will not change the contents of a decades old Russian- or Ukrainian-language document, but the website will translate so you can better navigate around to it. There are English-language works on there.

Anyway, here are some of the books and reports that I found (both on that website, but mostly elsewhere):


Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine
PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20200615231 ... kraine.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200144 ... inepdf.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200145 ... 21eef2.pdf
HTML: http://archive.fo/Gy6gW or https://web.archive.org/web/20200616045 ... n-ukraine/

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The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine
PDF: http://web.archive.org/web/202006200123 ... famine.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200130 ... inepdf.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200130 ... 63ea79.pdf
TXT: http://archive.fo/8Hb6z or https://web.archive.org/web/20200615232 ... e.it/5c1iq

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Holodomor - Ukrainian Genocide in the Early 1930s
PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20200615233 ... -1930s.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200139 ... 30spdf.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200140 ... b654e9.pdf
IMG: http://archive.fo/aPJf7 or https://web.archive.org/web/20200616033 ... e.it/46usx

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The Black Deeds of the Kremlin: A White Book — The Great Famine in Ukraine in 1932-1933
PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20200615235 ... e-book.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200123 ... ookpdf.pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/202006200125 ... af6a4d.pdf

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Holodomor Reader: A Sourcebook on the Famine of 1932-1933 in Ukraine
http://archive.fo/Ez82e or http://archive.vn/HGmBd or https://web.archive.org/web/20200616033 ... n-ukraine/

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50 years ago: The Famine Holocaust in Ukraine
PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20200616040 ... ialism.pdf or https://web.archive.org/web/20200616040 ... kraine.pdf or https://web.archive.org/web/20200616040 ... Russia.pdf

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Holodomor Studies - Vol 1-3
Vol 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20151208142 ... 1_2009.pdf
Vol 2: https://web.archive.org/web/20200616035 ... 2_2010.pdf
Vol 3: https://web.archive.org/web/20200616035 ... no-1-2.pdf

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A Selection of Soviet Documents on the Ukrainian Holodomor
PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20200616041 ... odomor.pdf or https://web.archive.org/web/20200616041 ... mor.pdf?v2

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The Soviet 1931–1933 Famines and the Ukrainian Holodomor: Is a New Interpretation Possible, and What Would Its Consequences Be?
PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20180801162 ... nesPDF.pdf
HTML: http://archive.fo/AZxcV or https://web.archive.org/web/20200615233 ... nesPDF.pdf

[Mortimer]

There is an interesting documentary on the holodomor called Harvest of Despair. It was made by Ukrainians who live in Canada.
http://www.ucrdc.org/Film-Harvest_of_Despair.html

[Otium]

PDF: https://pdfhost.io/v/uWLt.cmya_Stalins_Genocides.pdf Archive 1: http://web.archive.org/web/201704012325 ... 5/file.pdf Archive 2: https://archive.vn/GAyjR

Between the early 1930s and his death in 1953, Joseph Stalin had more than a million of his own citizens executed. Millions more fell victim to forced labor, deportation, famine, bloody massacres, and detention and interrogation by Stalin's henchmen. Stalin's Genocides is the chilling story of these crimes. The book puts forward the important argument that brutal mass killings under Stalin in the 1930s were indeed acts of genocide and that the Soviet dictator himself was behind them. Norman Naimark, one of our most respected authorities on the Soviet era, challenges the widely held notion that Stalin's crimes do not constitute genocide, which the United Nations defines as the premeditated killing of a group of people because of their race, religion, or inherent national qualities. In this gripping book, Naimark explains how Stalin became a pitiless mass killer. He looks at the most consequential and harrowing episodes of Stalin's systematic destruction of his own populace--the liquidation and repression of the so-called kulaks, the Ukrainian famine, the purge of nationalities, and the Great Terror--and examines them in light of other genocides in history. In addition, Naimark compares Stalin's crimes with those of the most notorious genocidal killer of them all, Adolf Hitler.

He'll probably dick around when comparing to Hitler, because the historical rule is that nobody is allowed to be worse than Hitler, even though many objectively were. All assuming that the orthodox narrative is true, which we know it isn't.

[Lamprecht]

The 2019 movie "Mr. Jones" is about the Welsh journalist who revealed to the West the reality of the USSR's famines in the 1930s. The above clip is just a trailer.

From: http://archive.is/azVJi

How fake news helped hide Soviet genocide in Ukraine
Mon, Jun 29, 2020

Stalin’s man-made famine in 1930s Soviet Ukraine ranks as one of the worst crimes of the totalitarian twentieth century. Millions died in the famine, which was orchestrated by Moscow in order to crush Ukraine’s independence movement and break rural resistance to the collectivization of agriculture in what was then the breadbasket of the Soviet Union. The scale of the atrocity is hard to fathom, with many of Eastern Europe’s most fertile regions transformed into apocalyptic wastelands and countless villages depopulated. However, unlike the far more notorious horrors of the Nazi regime, Stalin’s greatest crime remains relatively unknown.

It is a crime that in many ways foreshadowed today’s world of weaponized information and hybrid warfare. The deliberate starvation of the Ukrainian nation was only possible due to blanket Soviet censorship and the collaboration of a Western press corps in Moscow who enabled the crime in order to protect their own accreditation and maintain access to the Soviet elite. As the shadow of death spread across rural Ukraine, international correspondents in Moscow lined up to denounce isolated reports of famine as “fake news”.

One of the few to break through this wall of silence was intrepid young Welsh journalist Gareth Jones, who visited Soviet Ukraine during the famine. His eyewitness accounts alerted the outside world to the unfolding catastrophe and led to his denouncement by his journalistic colleagues.

Since the collapse of the USSR, renewed interest in the famine has led to greater posthumous recognition for Jones. A new film about his harrowing experiences in the 1930s Soviet Union is now introducing the story of the famine to twenty-first century audiences. Named “Mr. Jones” in his honor, it is a fitting tribute to a remarkable man that also serves as a timely warning about the dangers of disinformation.
[...]

[Mortimer]

Walter Duranty was the New York Times correspondent in Moscow. Instead of truthfully reporting on the holodomor he helped to cover it up and/or downplay it. This stooge of Stalin ended up winning the Pulitzer Prize.
https://codoh.com/library/document/stal ... uranty/en/

[Hopeingod]

It is very important in a discussion about the Holodomor for someone to mention where did all the stolen grain from the Ukraine go to, and there was a great amount of stolen grain.

The stolen grain from the Ukraine was most all of it shipped across the Atlantic Ocean from the USSR to the USA, and purchased by the USA at the highest top commodity grain prices in order to help the USA out with the USA western dust bowl drought that had already been going on for a few years at that time.

Proof is in the US government records of all shipping contents brought to and received in the USA. It is somewhere in the US Dept of Commerce records.

President FDR had to recognize the USSR in order permit this grain shipping to be received into the USA from the USSR.

Stalin used most of the payment money received from selling the stolen grain to purchase new technology from the USA, that was then shipped to the USSR from the USA.

[Mortimer]

Most people would be aware that part of the claims relating to the holocaust involve the use of "gas vans". But this is just more Soviet/Allied propaganda as the origin of the gas vans turns out to be the Soviet secret police the NKVD and the victims were not Jews but Ukrainians.
https://christiansfortruth.com/mobile-g ... holomodor/