Best and worst / least successful arguments

[forasanerworld]

If the Auschwitz death number was 4,000,000 subsequently reduced to 1,000,000 why did Rudolph Hoess "admit to 2 million gassed an 500,ooo killed by other means"?

Could that have anything to do with the gentle reminding exercise he was subjected to by the British Army Jewish Brigade who apprehended him and took some three days to arrive with him at the interrogation centre where the entertainment was continued?

[forasanerworld]

Prompted by the David Cole video post here (video link is "404 Not Found", can anyone post a link?) I found this:

https://everything.explained.today/David_Cole_(journalist)/

In short, a holocaust survivor thought his brother was dead, his brother, also a holocaust survivor also thought HIS brother to be dead; how many "missing in incarceration presumed dead" but actually alive are there?

[Hannover]

The standard narrative has it that hundreds of thousands were gassed on arrival while others, evidently unable to work, were put on starvation level rations, photographs there of abound.

The human body can persist quite a long time with no food whatever.

If there really was an intent on mass murder why were those penned at e.g Birkenau simply denied water, Zyclon-B and critical rations saved and three to eight days later everyone would be dead.


Such tactics were of course employed by the US in the Rhine Meadow camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

- Why would they starve those that they needed for labor?
- Why were so many send OUT of Auschwitz if it was an "extermination camp".

- Healthy Jews at Auschwitz 'liberation':




Revealing video about children in the Germans camps, who according to The Big Lie 'were murdered because they could not work.'
See both Jew and Gentile children, see actual Hanukah ceremonies in the "death camps".
'What happened to children in the German concentration camps':

"extermination camp / death camp" Auschwitz:

- An "extermination camp" where thousands of Jews chose to stay behind when the Germans left.
- An "extermination camp" where most of the inmates, more thousands, chose to leave WITH the Germans.
- An "extermination camp" where 1,250,000 human remains are supposedly buried, but no one can show us these remains.
- An "extermination camp" where many Jews gave birth.
- An "extermination camp" where the absurdly alleged homicidal 'gas chambers' could not have worked as alleged, as proven repeatedly, scientifically impossible.
- An "extermination camp" where fake 'gas chambers' were "reconstructed" AFTER THE WAR.
- An "extermination camp" where detailed aerial photos of the period show nothing that is alleged to have been happening.
- An "extermination camp" where there are even obvious, laughable attempts to tamper with aerial photos that make a mockery of the fake storyline.
see:
Auschwitz Aerial photos, tampered with to fit the fake story:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669
- An "extermination camp" where there are countless Jew "survivors", yet the fake narrative says 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.'
-An "extermination camp" where so called "survivors" say the most impossible and conflicting things that do not hold up to scrutiny, would be laughed out of a legit court of law.

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship.

[forasanerworld]

The named individuals at 21.45 in the YT film, has any attempt been made to locate any of them, even if now deceased?

[Lamprecht]

Quite a compelling argument, I'd say:

Germans destroyed the crematoria, but left "Gas Chambers" intact
viewtopic.php?t=12617

- At Majdanek, the crematorium building was destroyed, but not the alleged "Homicidal gas chamber" - Why? Revisionists claim that these rooms were delousing chambers, where Zyclon-B (a pesticide) was used to fumigate clothing

- Similarly, at Stutthof, the "Homicidal gas chamber" was left intact whereas the crematoria were destroyed

- At Auschwitz/Birkenau, the crematorium facilities were dismantled, but the main camp "homicidal gas chamber" rooms at Krema 1 and Block 11 were 100% intact when the Soviets 'liberated' the camp in January 1945

- From Andrew Allen's article below: "The two most important gas chambers of the entire Holocaust Myth are Leichenkeller 1 of Krema II and Leichenkeller 1 of Krema III. Leichenkeller 1 of Krema II was/is almost entirely complete, with its floor and walls untouched. The roof consisting of two layers of waterproofing and a thick concrete slab roof have partially fallen into the room below. About 35% of the room is still easily accessible. Leichenkeller 1 of Krema III was also left in a highly "inspectable" state, but with its roof completely dropped."

- How many "Sonderkommando" were supposedly forced to take care of these gassed corpses, but miraculously the Germans forgot to kill them?



Suggested reading:

Why the Germans Destroyed the Crematoria but left the Gas Chambers Intact
https://codoh.com/library/document/977/

Auschwitz, Destruction of Crematories
viewtopic.php?t=8240

Why did Germans dynamite "Gas chambers"???
viewtopic.php?t=5223

David Cole: Forty-Six Important Unanswered Questions Regarding the Nazi Gas Chambers
https://codoh.com/library/document/987/

Germar Rudolf: The Rudolf Report - Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

Stutthof as an "Extermination Camp": Critical Investigation of the Sources
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/ccs/4.html

Let me guess, they just forgot?

[Lamprecht]

I have some more:


Good Arguments

- Issues with gas chamber ventilation. For details, see: viewtopic.php?t=5493



Mediocre Arguments

- Anne Frank, specifically the diary being fake or whatever. Better to mention how nobody around Anne Frank was gassed at Auschwitz, such as here: viewtopic.php?p=93191#p93191

- Explosivity of Zyklon-B. Germar Rudolf discusses it here, I do not think it would have exploded under the conditons alleged, but maybe you can make an argument that they would have taken additional safety precautions: viewtopic.php?t=10422



Bad/unsuccessful/weak arguments

- No mention of "Holocaust" by Churchill, Eisenhower, de Gaulle; Churchill did claim "mass exterminations" in Nazi camps, actually, speaking of "The wholesale massacre by systematised processes of six or seven millions of men, women and children in the German execution camps...". Besides, it is claimed they were discussing military activities and whatnot. It's just not convincing

- Wooden doors on the alleged homicidal gas chambers. It's just not accurate in some cases, and supposedly the deadliest gas chamber of all is partially destroyed, so there is no door

- Fake video about people getting gassed. There is a video of people supposedly going in a gas chamber filled with Zyklon-B, it has the word "Amalek" featured on it. It's a fake video meant to discredit revisionism

[Breker]

- Explosivity of Zyklon-B. Germar Rudolf discusses it here, I do not think it would have exploded under the conditions alleged, but maybe you can make an argument that they would have taken additional safety precautions: viewtopic.php?t=10422

I think the argument is made rather well in thread linked to.
Given the huge amounts of Zyklon-B / cyanide that would have been necessary to kill as alleged and being very close to heat intensive cremation facilities, it would not have been a matter of if, but when an explosion would occur. The example shown of an exploded house drives that point home dramatically.

Is Zyklon B explosive ? New Germar Rudolf Video: viewtopic.php?t=10422
cyanide exploded house


Having said that, and given the fact that the alleged gassing process in general is quite impossible, all subsequent discussion could be said to somewhat irrelevant and superfluous
B.

[Lamprecht]

I would also like to take this opportunity to explain how to make a mediocre argument into a good one. When mentioning false confessions, do not dwell specifically on torture. Mention that not only was torture used in some cases, but other methods of persuasion as well. The fact is, torture is certainly is not the sole determining factor of a false confession. I have seen the "Torture" argument used in general, and then a tricky exterminationist will try to make it out as if you are saying that torture is the only reason a person would give a false confession.
Example:
Q: "Why did ____ confess to it then?"
A: "He was probably tortured"
Q: "But there is no proof of that guy specifically being tortured, you're just making that up!"

And it is quite impossible to prove that every single fake "confession" was acquired as a direct result of torture, even if it was. It certainly should be mentioned in known cases of torture, like Rudolf Hoess, but it is also important to explicitly state other possible reasons when mentioning false confessions. See:

The Psychology of False Confessions / Why people confess to crimes they did not commit
viewtopic.php?t=12804

So when asked about why they lied in confessions, it is better to say something like:
"In some cases people were tortured, but in other cases that was not necessary. This is because ...."

And it is also useful to point out those who did deny it:

"Why Didn't Any Nazi Deny" and the scope of the "conspiracy"
viewtopic.php?t=12287

As for:

- Explosivity of Zyklon-B. Germar Rudolf discusses it here, I do not think it would have exploded under the conditions alleged, but maybe you can make an argument that they would have taken additional safety precautions: viewtopic.php?t=10422

I think the argument is made rather well in thread linked to.
Given the huge amounts of Zyklon-B / cyanide that would have been necessary to kill as alleged and being very close to heat intensive cremation facilities, it would not have been a matter of if, but when an explosion would occur. The example shown of an exploded house drives that point home dramatically.

Is Zyklon B explosive ? New Germar Rudolf Video: viewtopic.php?t=10422
cyanide exploded house


Having said that, and given the fact that the alleged gassing process in general is quite impossible, all subsequent discussion could be said to somewhat irrelevant and superfluous
B.

Yes, but that is why I put it into "Mediocre". Mediocre = proceed with caution, if you intend to use the argument make sure you are well versed in it at the very least. Whereas "bad" arguments are things that probably should not be used very often, if at all. Not to say that they can't be effective, but when confronted with an exterminationist who is has read a lot, they will have some pre-canned arguments against it.

I just think it's a weak, inconclusive argument because the exterminationists can easily just claim enough was not used for that, and that quantity is not even required in the air for a person to die. Exterminationists will ignore the factor of Zyklon-B outgassing times (discussed here in multiple posts on this page: viewtopic.php?p=93737#p93737 ) in which case the Zyklon-B would still be out-gassing an hour after the supposed gassing started. Due to it releasing rather slowly, they would have needed to use a very large amount.

The issue is that we do not have any actual, real-world examples of huge rooms full of people being gassed with Zyklon-B. Just some 1-person gassings in the USA in highly elaborate conditions, with potassium or sodium cyanide dropped into sulfuric acid causing it to rapidly release the HCN rather than Zyklon-B pellets which don't (unless exposed to hot air blowing on them). So everything is based on calculations which the average person will not understand, so they will just go with "Well I trust the expert calculations not the ones by deniers" or whatever.

In my opinion, "Explosivity of HCN" argument shouldn't be in the top 10 of anyone's arguments against the gassings at Auschwitz. That is why Germar Rudolf does not really use it in his books. Even though I do agree the Germans would not have even taken the risk here.

[Lamprecht]

Another bad argument:
No, Americans didn't spray Mexicans with Zyklon-B / HCN on the border
viewtopic.php?t=12944

As for:

Mediocre arguments

- Crematory capacities at Auschwitz. Although I do not think the nazis had the cremation abilities at Auschwitz to kill 1+ million people and cremate them all, I think focusing on the AR camps, where jews were allegedly burned out in the open in massive pyres made with railroad rails.

See some strategies for this argument, if you choose to use it:
Auschwitz cremation ovens and the "four-story continuous operation corpse incineration oven" never built
viewtopic.php?t=12778


Another good argument can be to bring up the tiny, manual operated elevator where supposedly 500,000 gassed Jews were brought up to be cremated:

Auschwitz Krema II: The elevator / chute / lift - was it ever replaced/improved?
viewtopic.php?t=12891

[Hektor]

Another bad argument:
No, Americans didn't spray Mexicans with Zyklon-B / HCN on the border
viewtopic.php?t=12944
....

It's a good circumstantial argument that has been distorted. Hard evidence (or pointing out the lack thereof) is of course better than circumstantial arguments. The Holocaust narrative foots on bad circumstantial arguments and innuendo.

AFAIK Before DDT Zyklon B has been used for delousing in the US as well in order to prevent the spread of diseases. Zyklon B was used on clothing or non-living materials. People were showered. It may be of interest to look at the facilities or documentation thereof for the matter of comparison.

Here is a training film on what the US-Army did do to combat lice and the diseases they can spread:
https://archive.org/details/LouseBorneDiseases

[Lamprecht]

Hektor - the way I have seen it used is for something like "USA used Zyklon B to gas prisoners" etc with those photos. I posted no specific examples of it being used but I had seen it a few times. Like I said it probably wasn't used here on CODOH but If I see it again I can just send the link to them, for my own convenience

[Zenith1978]

In my opinion, the best argument is Caroline Colls archeological hoax at Treblinka, because it clearly shows how far are some individuals willing to go in order to make the Holocaust look real:
- she desecrated a Christian cemetery
- she misidentified the emblem of a terracotta factory as the star of David
- OK, so a tooth was found, a shark tooth. what does it proof,exactly? nothing.
- horse bones misidentified as human bones ! by the way, was there any police presence? any representative of the General Attorney's Office ( or the Polish equivalent) ? were the bones examined by a qualified forensic anthropologist?
- she identified, without a shadow of doubt, the structure where the terracotta tiles were found as the" gas chamber". were there any Prussian Blue stains? any clue that would lead to the positive identification of a gas ( or rather delousing) facility?
-the charred human bone fragments, is there a possibility they belonged to a person who had no connection whatsoever with the Treblinka concentration camp? could them belong to a farmer who lived nearby, or to a forest worker?
- where are the mass graves?

This entire story seems fabricated,falsified and makes people think and ask for actual proof of the alleged " WWII atrocities".

[Hektor]

Hektor - the way I have seen it used is for something like "USA used Zyklon B to gas prisoners" etc with those photos. I posted no specific examples of it being used but I had seen it a few times. Like I said it probably wasn't used here on CODOH but If I see it again I can just send the link to them, for my own convenience

That's of course complete nonsense (using the photo and the border control delousing as proof for this). The US did however gas prisoners using HCN (they derived this by mixing Sodium Cyanide and sulphuric acid - not using Zyklon B). Something that is not proven for Germany.
The American method of execution does sound far more viable, feasible and economical for executions. Perhaps something worthwhile to look into. Sulphuric Acid is a byproduct from various chemical and metallurgical processes. I can get that for free from certain mines, if I take care of the transport. Sodium Cyanide also got applications in that line. It should be quite easy to manufacture. It's save to transport as well, as long as it doesn't get exposed to acidity. Zyklon B is in a completely different ball park, since you have to soak a carrier with it and also have to can it, etc.

[stinky]

In my opinion, the best argument is Caroline Colls archeological hoax at Treblinka, because it clearly shows how far are some individuals willing to go in order to make the Holocaust look real:
- she desecrated a Christian cemetery
- she misidentified the emblem of a terracotta factory as the star of David
- OK, so a tooth was found, a shark tooth. what does it proof,exactly? nothing.
- horse bones misidentified as human bones ! by the way, was there any police presence? any representative of the General Attorney's Office ( or the Polish equivalent) ? were the bones examined by a qualified forensic anthropologist?
- she identified, without a shadow of doubt, the structure where the terracotta tiles were found as the" gas chamber". were there any Prussian Blue stains? any clue that would lead to the positive identification of a gas ( or rather delousing) facility?
-the charred human bone fragments, is there a possibility they belonged to a person who had no connection whatsoever with the Treblinka concentration camp? could them belong to a farmer who lived nearby, or to a forest worker?
- where are the mass graves?

This entire story seems fabricated,falsified and makes people think and ask for actual proof of the alleged " WWII atrocities".

I agree.
It's a very compelling demonstration as to how weak (at times, non existent) the evidence for the claims are - in this instance Trebilnka.
And it MUST be highlighted that Coles is not just the presenter of the utterly pathetic documentary;
wiki: “Sturdy Coles (born 1985) is a Professor Conflict Archaeology and Genocide Investigation at Staffordshire University specializing in Holocaust studies, identification of human remains, forensic archaeology and crime scene investigation."

A Professor of "Conflict Archaeology & Genocide" - "specializing in Holocaust studies, identification of human remains, forensic archaeology and crime scene investigation."?? Seriously!?
Inspector Gadget could have undertaken a more thorough and professional "investigation".

And the 2013 Channel 5 (UK) documentary “Treblinka - Inside Hitler’s killing Machine” is meant to convince people?
The documentary debunks itself!
As Zenith1978 noted

it clearly shows how far are some individuals willing to go in order to make the Holocaust look real:

[Callahan]

According to the current holocaust story all death camps were located in Poland and were either closed or overrun by the Soviet Army months before the Western Allies entered Germany. The U.S. and British Armies were at least four months to late and never got within five hundred miles of a so called death camp.

At another forum, this image and caption are shared:

Now gaskammer and death camps only reside in the Soviet area of control post war; the people who framed the Germans for Katyn, who also had 46 years to coerce people, forge documents, destroy documents; they had much to gain by demonizing the Germans. [...]

One of the responses clarifies that not all camps liberated by the Soviets became alleged "death camps", however it remains true that all of those that did become alleged "death camps" were liberated by the Soviets (and the Western allies didn't come anywhere near them):

Stutthof, Sachsenhausen, Gross Rosen were all liberated by the Soviets. As far as I'm aware no Western or neutral inspection was conducted in these camps.