Taubner Verdict - Proof of extermination?

[Hektor]

I have now received a photocopy version of the Taubner verdict. It is a typescript copy from 1959 signed (I presume by a Federal German legal investigator, court officer or similar) prepared for the then ongoing investigation into Reinecke. I'm not sure what use to make of it. Perhaps it would be as well to pause and consider what conclusions and hypotheses we wish to make before seeking further evidence.

Any thoughts?

There should at least be two files. One relating to alleged SS-Court proceedings during world war two. The others are post war.
Both may be of interest, but I think it's the WW2 ones that are of most interest for now. But still post them, they may give us a better idea of what's going on.

What Reinecke were the investigations about?

[Hannover]

I note that The Black Rabbit cites two authors on Taubner, Danny S. Parker and Jürgen Matthäus, but The Rabbit predictably fails to tell us what they claim about Taubner.

To no surprise as well, The Black Rabbit himself fails to gives us anything of substance about specific claims made against Taubner from any source.

That all follows since The Black Rabbit is a believer in the utterly impossible 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz / Birkenau.

- Hannover

"Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

- Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

[onetruth]

EtienneSC,

You can order a digital copy of the following microfilm from the NARA for $125.00:

Roll List for SS Officers, Microfilm Publication A3343, Series SSO

- Roll 171B [Svatschina, Emil to Tali, Juhan]

http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/Guides/NARA_A3343_Guide_SSOfficerIndex.pdf

It contains a copy of Täubner's personnel file and according to the authors quoted below it should contain copies of the original judgment and other documents relating to his trial.
It takes roughly a week for the NARA to process an order for a digital copy of a MF. They'll email you a link so you can download your copy.
Alternatively you could contact a research firm such as this and ask them to get you photos of just Täubner's file [frames 118-237] from the MF. That will probably cost around $50.00 but as they only take photos of the documents as displayed on a MF reader monitor, the quality won't be as good as what you can expect from ordering a digital copy of the MF.

Documentation of the SS case against Täubner can be seen in NARA, BDC [Berlin Document Centre] file A 3343-SSO, Roll B-171.
- Hitler's Warrior: The Life and Wars of SS Colonel Jochen Peiper, p.346

BDC-file Max Täubner, National Archives, College Park (NARA), A 3343, reel B-171, frames 118–237;

p.239: http://kislenko.com/data/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Matthaus.pdf

It's telling that this 'information' hasn't been made openly available by the 'holocaust' Industry.
They are trying to hide something.

mr Hanover

TheBlackRabbitofInlé provided you with a link to the Berlin Document Center where you can get a copy of Täubner file and judgement.
you try to argue that " they " are hiding something . Who exactly are " they " and how can " they " influence the Berlin Document Center to hide information ?

~~

[Hannover]

onetruth said:

mr Hanover

TheBlackRabbitofInlé provided you with a link to the Berlin Document Center where you can get a copy of Täubner file and judgement.
you try to argue that " they " are hiding something . Who exactly are " they " and how can " they " influence the Berlin Document Center to hide information ?

Yes, they are hiding something, obviously so. If the information on Taubner held up to scrutiny we would be seeing it without it being hidden behind a pay wall. Of course we see the same tactic for many alleged "documents", not to mention the complete unavailability of verbatim court transcripts for the post-Nuremberg trials.
Oh BTW, lest some of us forget, there are anti free speech laws which imprison anyone who scrutinizes the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'. Hiding something indeed. Truth needs no such protection.

"They" are supremacist Jews / Zionists, their cash cow "The Holocaust' Industry", and the neo-Marxists who use the scam for their own hateful, power hungry ends. Do follow the money.

again:

I note that The Black Rabbit cites two authors on Taubner, Danny S. Parker and Jürgen Matthäus, but The Rabbit predictably fails to tell us what they claim about Taubner.

To no surprise as well, The Black Rabbit himself fails to gives us anything of substance about specific claims made against Taubner from any source.

That all follows since The Black Rabbit is a believer in the utterly impossible 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz / Birkenau.

- Hannover

So why aren't we told what Parker and Matthäus claim about Taubner. Has The Rabbit even read what he cites? Why doesn't The Rabbit give us specific claims about Taubner from any source? Simple, he doesn't know what he is talking about and is afraid of stepping on yet another landmine.

And what about you, onetruth? Please give us, with proof, specific claims about Taubner. Back up what you say you believe in.

Also, why do you, one truth, and The Rabbit ignore this?

"Max Taubner, Aircraft engineer, joined NSDAP 1932 (expelled for unpunctual payment of membership dues and readmitted in 1937), joined SS January 1933. SS-Untersturmfuhrer in 1. Werkstattzug in Kommandostab RFSS-Nachschubfuhrer. Attempt to bring Taubner to trial after the war failed in 1960. Memmingen Landesgericht and the Munich Oberlandesgericht (Provincial High Court) refused to open the main trial on the grounds that the existence of a prior verdict by the SS court prohibited the carrying out of new criminal proceedings (although Taubner had neither been accused or judged for the murder of Jews). The Bundesgerichthof (Federal Court) upheld this decision on 24 May 1972 (2 ARs 80/72)."

- Hannover

"Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

- Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

[onetruth]

Yes, they are hiding something, obviously so. If the information on Taubner held up to scrutiny we would be seeing it without it being hidden behind a pay wall. Of course we see the same tactic for many alleged "documents", not to mention the complete unavailability of verbatim court transcripts for the post-Nuremberg trials.

in other words you are saying that there is some secret plot in germany involving the german government to hide documents and the truth from the public. A olot no one knows anything about but you.

That does not sound very reasonable to me. Germany happens to be one of the stronger countries in the world. What could they possibly benefit from being involved in such a conspiracy ?


~

[Hannover]

Yes, they are hiding something, obviously so. If the information on Taubner held up to scrutiny we would be seeing it without it being hidden behind a pay wall. Of course we see the same tactic for many alleged "documents", not to mention the complete unavailability of verbatim court transcripts for the post-Nuremberg trials.

in other words you are saying that there is some secret plot in germany involving the german government to hide documents and the truth from the public. A olot no one knows anything about but you.

That does not sound very reasonable to me. Germany happens to be one of the stronger countries in the world. What could they possibly benefit from being involved in such a conspiracy ?~

- "Secret plot"? You said that, not me. Stop using false arguments. Nothing secret about it.
- Prove me wrong, if you can, is there a pay wall or not? And try to get verbatim transcripts of post Nuremberg trials. You cannot and I am right.
- No "conspiracy", simply an obvious & open fact ... as I have shown.
- Of course the fact that scrutiny of the impossible 'holocau$t' storyline is illegal in Germany and many other countries is proof of it's fraudulence.

Again, you run from debate:

And what about you, onetruth? Please give us, with proof, specific claims about Taubner. Back up what you say you believe in.

Also, why do you, one truth, and The Rabbit ignore this:

"Max Taubner, Aircraft engineer, joined NSDAP 1932 (expelled for unpunctual payment of membership dues and readmitted in 1937), joined SS January 1933. SS-Untersturmfuhrer in 1. Werkstattzug in Kommandostab RFSS-Nachschubfuhrer. Attempt to bring Taubner to trial after the war failed in 1960. Memmingen Landesgericht and the Munich Oberlandesgericht (Provincial High Court) refused to open the main trial on the grounds that the existence of a prior verdict by the SS court prohibited the carrying out of new criminal proceedings (although Taubner had neither been accused or judged for the murder of Jews). The Bundesgerichthof (Federal Court) upheld this decision on 24 May 1972 (2 ARs 80/72)."

This is way too easy.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

"Max Taubner, Aircraft engineer, joined NSDAP 1932 (expelled for unpunctual payment of membership dues and readmitted in 1937), joined SS January 1933. SS-Untersturmfuhrer in 1. Werkstattzug in Kommandostab RFSS-Nachschubfuhrer. Attempt to bring Taubner to trial after the war failed in 1960. Memmingen Landesgericht and the Munich Oberlandesgericht (Provincial High Court) refused to open the main trial on the grounds that the existence of a prior verdict by the SS court prohibited the carrying out of new criminal proceedings (although Taubner had neither been accused or judged for the murder of Jews). The Bundesgerichthof (Federal Court) upheld this decision on 24 May 1972 (2 ARs 80/72)."

Here's the Federal Court's 24 May 1972 ruling:

BGH, 24.05.1972 - 2 ARs 80/72

In der Strafsache
- StL. 29/42 des Obersten SS- und Polizeigerichts in München,
II 204 AR 132/61 - T der Zentralen Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen in Ludwigsburg -
hat der 2. Strafsenat des Bundesgerichtshofs
nach Anhörung des Generalbundesanwalts
in der Sitzung vom 24. Mai 1972
beschlossen:

Tenor:

Der Antrag, gemäß § 13 a StPO ein zuständiges Gericht für die Entscheidung über die Wiederaufnahme des durch rechtskräftiges Feld-Urteil des Obersten SS- und Polizeigerichts in München vom 24. Mai 1943 abgeschlossenen Verfahrens zu bestimmen, wird abgelehnt.

Gründe

1
Der ehemalige SS-Untersturmführer in der Waffen-SS Max T... wurde im Sommer 1941 mit der Führung eines Werkstattzuges beim Nachschubführer im Kommandostab RFSS beauftragt und mit seinem Zug der ersten SS-Brigade zugeteilt. In der Zeit vom 12. September bis zum 12. November 1941 lag T... mit dem Zug in der Ukraine. Dort führte er in den drei Ortschaften Zwiahel, Scholochowo und Alexandria mit Angehörigen seines Zuges auf eigene Faust Erschießungen von Juden durch, bei denen 969 Personen (Männer, Frauen und Kinder) umgebracht wurden. Zum Teil wurden die Opfer auf sein Betreiben grausam mißhandelt. Er beteiligte sich selbst an den Mißhandlungen. Wegen dieser Vorfälle und anderer Delikte wurde T... durch Feldurteil des Obersten SS- und Polizeigerichts in München vom 24. Mai 1943 zu einer Gesamtstrafe von zehn Jahren Zuchthaus verurteilt. Daneben wurde er aus der SS ausgestoßen und für wehrunwürdig erklärt. Die bürgerlichen Ehrenrechte wurden ihm auf die Dauer von zehn Jahren aberkannt. Die Erschießungen sind unter dem rechtlichen Gesichtspunkt der Verabsäumung der Dienstaufsicht nach § 147 MStGB i.V.m. § 5 a der Kriegssonderstrafrechtsverordnung mit einer Einzelstrafe von fünf Jahren Zuchthaus geahndet worden. Wegen der Tötung als solcher wurde von einer Bestrafung abgesehen. Das Urteil ist durch den Reichsführer SS Himmler bestätigt worden. Der Verurteilte hat einen Teil der Strafe verbüßt.

2
Im Jahre 1960 erhob die Staatsanwaltschaft Memmingen wegen der Erschießungen aus dem Jahre 1941 gegen Täubner Anklage wegen dreifachen Mordes. Mit Beschluß vom 31. März 1960 (Aktenzeichen: AK 43/60) lehnte das Landgericht Memmingen die Eröffnung des Hauptverfahrens ab. Es begründete seine Entscheidung damit, daß das rechtskräftige Urteil des Obersten SS- und Polizeigerichts in München vom 24. Mai 1943 der Durchführung eines neuen Strafverfahrens entgegenstehe. Die dagegen gerichtete sofortige Beschwerde der Staatsanwaltschaft wurde durch Beschluß des Oberlandesgerichts München vom 27. Juni 1960 (Aktenzeichen: Ws 383/60) als unbegründet verworfen.

3
Darauf beantragte die Staatsanwaltschaft Memmingen beim Landgericht Memmingen die Wiederaufnahme des Verfahrens zuungunsten Täubners. Mit Beschluß vom 20. Juli 1960 (Aktenzeichen: I AR 22/60) verwarf das Landgericht Memmingen den Antrag als unzulässig. Zwar bejahte es seine Zuständigkeit nach § 18 Abs. 3 des Gesetzes zur Ergänzung von Zuständigkeiten auf den Gebieten des bürgerlichen Rechts, des Handelsrechts und des Strafrechts (Zuständigkeitsergänzungsgesetz) vom 7. August 1952 (BGBl I 407). Es legte § 18 ZustErgG jedoch dahin aus, daß die Bestimmung nur die Wiederaufnahme zugunsten des Verurteilten erlaube. Die dagegen gerichtete sofortige Beschwerde der Staatsanwaltschaft wurde durch Beschluß des Oberlandesgerichts München vom 31. August 1960 (Aktenzeichen: Ws 467/60) aus derselben Erwägung als unbegründet verworfen.

4
Nunmehr beantragt die Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen in Ludwigsburg über den Generalbundesanwalt, nach § 13 a StPO das zuständige Gericht für das Wiederaufnahmeverfahren zuungunsten des Verurteilten Täubner zu bestimmen. Dem Antrag kann nicht stattgegeben werden.

5
Der Bundesgerichtshof kann ein zuständiges Gericht nach § 13 a StPO nur bestimmen, wenn es im Geltungsbereich der Strafprozeßordnung an einem zuständigen Gericht fehlt oder ein solches nicht ermittelt ist. Diese Voraussetzungen für eine Bestimmung sind nicht gegeben.

6
Die Staatsanwaltschaft in Memmingen hatte die Wiederaufnahme des Verfahrens zuungunsten des Verurteilten "gem. §§ 362 Nr. 3, 364 StPO i.V. mit § 18 des Zuständigkeitsergänzungsgesetzes" beantragt. § 18 Abs. 3 ZustErgG regelt allgemein die Zuständigkeit für die Wiederaufnahme von Verfahren, die durch Urteile der in dem Gesetz genannten Gerichte abgeschlossen worden sind. Deshalb oblag dem Landgericht in Memmingen die Entscheidung, ob ein Wiederaufnahmeverfahren gegen das Feldurteil des Obersten SS- und Polizeigerichts in München vom 24. Mai 1943 zuungunsten des Verurteilten zulässig oder, wie es dann erkannt hat, gerade wegen der Regelung im Zuständigkeitsergänzungsgesetz ausgeschlossen war. Es hat durch den Beschluß vom 20. Juli 1960, der durch Beschluß des Oberlandesgerichts in München vom 31. August 1960 bestätigt wurde, dahin entschieden, daß das begehrte Wiederaufnahmeverfahren unzulässig ist. Die Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen in Ludwigsburg bezweckt mit ihrem Antrag gemäß § 13 a StPO, daß diese rechtskräftige Entscheidung überprüft und umgestoßen wird. § 13 a StPO schafft jedoch nicht die Möglichkeit, auf dem Wege der Zuständigkeitsbestimmung die Entscheidungen von Gerichten im Geltungsbereich der Strafprozeßordnung durch andere Gerichte überprüfen zu lassen.


https://www.jurion.de/Urteile/BGH/1972-05-24/2-ARs-80_72

Rudolf Wüstholz was one of Täubner's men who was not tried by the SS in 1943:

4. SS-Sturmmann Rudolf Wüstholz shot the Ukrainian captain of the militia, Chamrai. He did this on the orders of SS-Untersturmführer Max Täubner, who was acting contrary to the law, thereby making himself guilty of the crime of manslaughter.

Allowances have been made for the fact that the accused were, without exception, acting on the orders of and under the responsibility of SS-Untersturmführer Max Täubner. In this respect, their own culpability may be described as slight. . . . The cases against these accused have therefore been dismissed.

As Wüstholz had not been tried by the SS he did stand trial for these killings in 1973. The judgment to his trial can be found in volume 38 of JuNSV.

Case Nr.793
Crime Category: Other Mass Extermination Crimes, War Crimes
Accused:
Wüs., Rudolf Nikolaus 2 Years
Court:
LG Heilbronn 730524
Country where the crime was committed: Ukraine
Crime Location: Nowograd Wolynskij, Scholochovo, Alexandria, Konotop
Crime Date: 410913- 411112
Victims: Jews, Members of the Resistance
Nationality: Soviet
Agency: Waffen-SS 1.SS-Inf.Brig.(mot)
Subject of the proceeding: Mass and single shootings of Jews as well as of a commander of a Ukrainian militia unit suspected of partisan activities, by a unit of the 1st. SS-Infantry Brigade on arbitrary orders from the unit's commander, Täubner, who was tried and sentenced to 10 years imprsionment for these killings by the Supreme SS and Police Court of Munich

Published in Justiz und NS-Verbrechen Vol. XXXVIII
http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/JuNSVEng/Casenrsfr.htm

Max Täubner did appear as a witness at Wüstholz's trial:

Das Spiegel
21.05.1973

NS-PROZESSE

Nicht deutsche Art

Vor dem Helibronner Schwurgericht muß sich ein SS-Sturmmann wegen Beihilfe zum Mord verantworten. Der Hauptschuldige aber kann nicht mehr belangt werden: Er war schon vom SS-Gericht verurteilt worden.

Der Mordprozeß gegen den früheren SS-Sturmmann Rudolf Nikolaus Wüstholz, 60, in Heilbronn verläuft typisch -- die meisten Zeugen können sich nach 32 Jahren nur noch vage erinnern, haben verdrängt, wollen nichts mehr wissen. Der Angeklagte schweigt.

Befrachtet mit all den üblichen Schwierigkeiten, die sich bei Aufklärung und juristischer Wertung von NS-Verbrechen heute einstellen, ist dieser Prozeß gleichwohl -- so Staatsanwalt Rolf Sichting -- ein "einmaliger Fall".

Denn wie schon die Anklage, die Wüstholz Beihilfe "zu der aus niedrigen Beweggründen und grausam erfolgten Tötung von 6 Menschen" vorwirft, so wird sich vermutlich auch das für diese Woche erwartete Urteil in wesentlichen Punkten auf ein Feldurteil eben jener SS stützen, die den staatlichen Massenmord an fünf Millionen Juden organisierte.

Im September 1941 war ein Werkstattzug der 1. SS-Brigade unter dem Kommando des Untersturmführers Max Täubner in das ukrainische Dorf Zwiahel eingerückt. Dort ließ Täubner -- wie noch zu NS-Zeiten festgestellt wurde -- 319 jüdische Männer, Frauen und Kinder durch Genickschuß umbringen. In Scholochowo ermordeten die Männer des Werkstattzuges, dem auch Wüstholz angehörte, 191 Juden. 459 Opfer waren es wenig später in dem Ort Alexandrija.

Das war, grausig genug, an der Tagesordnung. Für die Reitende Abteilung des SS-Kavallerie-Regiments 2 galt damals beispielsweise der "ausdrückliche Befehl": "Sämtliche Juden müssen erschossen werden. Judenweiber in die Sümpfe treiben." Am 12. August hatte denn auch das Regiment vom "Einsatz Pripjet-Sümpfe" gemeldet: "Weiber und Kinder in die Sümpfe zu treiben, hatte nicht den Erfolg, den er haben sollte, denn die Sümpfe waren nicht so tief, daß ein Einsinken erfolgen konnte." Die Menschen wurden erschossen.

Gleichwohl machte Himmler zwischen dieser Massenerschießung und dem von Täubner angeordneten Massaker einen Unterschied: Die SS-Kavallerie hatte als Sonderkommando auf Befehl gehandelt. Täubner hingegen ohne "Kampfauftrag" auf eigene Faust. Das paßte nicht in das Konzept des Ordnungsfanatikers Himmler.

Besessen von der Idee, daß selbst die Massenvernichtung noch sauber-sachlich verwirklicht und der SS-Mann "dabei anständig" (Himmler) bleiben müsse, beantwortete der Reichsführer am 12. Oktober 1942 die Frage des Hauptamts-SS-Gerichts, wie bei eigenmächtigen Judenerschießungen zu verfahren sei, per Erlaß: "Bei rein politischen Motiven ... keine Bestrafung" außer zwecks "Aufrechterhaltung der Ordnung", gerichtliche Ahndung "bei eigensüchtigen oder sadistischen bzw. sexuellen Motiven".

So wurde dem SS-Mann Täubner 1943 der Prozeß gemacht -- das Urteil spiegelt die mörderische Moral. Nicht "wegen der Judenaktionen als solcher", so die Begründung. solle der Angeklagte bestraft werden ("... es ist um keinen der getöteten Juden schade"), wohl aber, weil er sich "zu Grausamkeiten" habe "hinreißen lassen, die eines deutschen Mannes und SS-Führers unwürdig sind".

Das SS-Urteil konstatierte "üble Ausschreitungen". Wüstholz etwa habe die Juden veranlaßt. "sich gegenseitig totzuschlagen, wobei versprochen wurde, daß der Überlebende nicht erschossen werde". Zugführer Täubner "prügelte selbst mit"; bei Pausen intonierte er auf seiner Ziehharmonika das Lied "Du bist verrückt, mein Kind". Die Mordszenen hielten Täubner und sein Sturmmann Ernst Fritsch, heute Ortsvorsteher einer Gemeinde bei Kehl, mit der Kamera fest.

Wegen Verabsäumung der Dienstaufsichtspflicht (Täubner ließ "seine Männer ... seelisch verkommen") und wegen militärischen Ungehorsams (weil die Erschießungen photographiert worden waren) verhängte das SS-Gericht eine zehnjährige Zuchthausstrafe -- als "Photographierfall" ging der Prozeß in die Annalen der Himmler-Truppe ein.

Eben diese Verurteilung aber bewahrt Täubner, der zwei Jahre der Strafe absaß, heute davor, erneut vor Gericht gestellt zu werden, diesmal wegen Mordes. Denn mit der Auflösung der Wehrmacht und der NS-Organisationen kassierte der alliierte Kontrollrat 1946 alle Sondergerichtsurteile. Und das westdeutsche Zuständigkeitsergänzungsgesetz von 1952 läßt die "Wiederaufnahme eines durch das Urteil eines Sondergerichts rechtskräftig abgeschlossenen Verfahrens ... nur zugunsten des Verurteilten" zu (Oberlandesgericht München zum Fall Täubner).

So sind im Heilbronner Schwurgerichtsprozeß 30 Jahre später die Rollen gleichsam vertauscht. Damals war Rudolf Wüstholz einer der Zeugen gegen Max Täubner, er selber ging straffrei aus. Heute ist Täubner Zeuge gegen Wüstholz. kann aber selber nicht mehr belangt werden.

Seinem einstigen Untergebenen schadete der Hauptverantwortliche der Mordaktionen freilich nicht. Auf alle Fragen des Heilbronner Gerichts antwortete Täubner das eine um das andere Mal: "Ich kann mich nicht mehr erinnern."

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-42001312.html

According to the JuNSV's site, another of Täubner's men who, like Wüstholz, wasn't tried by the SS in 1943, was tried in West Germany.

WEST GERMAN TRIAL JUDGMENTS

BRD Vol. 38

Volume 38 contains the trial judgments by district courts finalized between 1 January and 5 June 1973. Among other crimes, they address the so-called ghetto-liquidations of Pinsk, Radom and Zamosc, the mass shootings of Russian prisoners of war, and the activities of Einsatzkomando 10a in Southern Ukraine, during the early months of the German attack on the Soviet Union. After a twenty-year break, case nr. 789 forms the introduction to a series of trial proceedings before the Hamburg court concerning the extermination of the Jews from Riga (case nrs.789, 820, 843, 856 and 883).

Also contained in this volume is one of the two cases involving members of an SS-unit, whose commander was sentenced by the Supreme SS and Police Court in 1943 for indulging in excessive cruelties during the arbitrary shooting of Jews ("Täubner case"). Case Nr.792 sheds some interesting light on the contacts which defendants entertained both among themselves as well as with the Zentrale Stelle in Ludwigsburg, during the investigative, "pre-trial" phase.

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/junsveng/news.htm

I don't know who this second man was, but his case number would feature in a footnote to Wüstholz's judgement [JuNSV:38], so it could easily be found by anyone prepared to visit a library with the JuNSV volumes or access to the online volumes.

[Hektor]

"Max Taubner, Aircraft engineer, joined NSDAP 1932 (expelled for unpunctual payment of membership dues and readmitted in 1937), joined SS January 1933. SS-Untersturmfuhrer in 1. Werkstattzug in Kommandostab RFSS-Nachschubfuhrer. Attempt to bring Taubner to trial after the war failed in 1960. Memmingen Landesgericht and the Munich Oberlandesgericht (Provincial High Court) refused to open the main trial on the grounds that the existence of a prior verdict by the SS court prohibited the carrying out of new criminal proceedings (although Taubner had neither been accused or judged for the murder of Jews). The Bundesgerichthof (Federal Court) upheld this decision on 24 May 1972 (2 ARs 80/72)."

Here's the Federal Court's 24 May 1972 ruling:
...I don't know who this second man was, but his case number would feature in a footnote to Wüstholz's judgement [JuNSV:38], so it could easily be found by anyone prepared to visit a library with the JuNSV volumes or access to the online volumes.

That seems to be all post-war proceedings with the usual suspicious grounds.

What would interest me is the complete contemporary original document regarding the SS-verdict.

To me that sounds like reprisal killings against partisans. And Taeubner seems to have done something involving killings that exceeded his mandate, but as said the original document is what we'd be looking for first.

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

"Max Taubner, Aircraft engineer, joined NSDAP 1932 (expelled for unpunctual payment of membership dues and readmitted in 1937), joined SS January 1933. SS-Untersturmfuhrer in 1. Werkstattzug in Kommandostab RFSS-Nachschubfuhrer. Attempt to bring Taubner to trial after the war failed in 1960. Memmingen Landesgericht and the Munich Oberlandesgericht (Provincial High Court) refused to open the main trial on the grounds that the existence of a prior verdict by the SS court prohibited the carrying out of new criminal proceedings (although Taubner had neither been accused or judged for the murder of Jews). The Bundesgerichthof (Federal Court) upheld this decision on 24 May 1972 (2 ARs 80/72)."

Here's the Federal Court's 24 May 1972 ruling:
...I don't know who this second man was, but his case number would feature in a footnote to Wüstholz's judgement [JuNSV:38], so it could easily be found by anyone prepared to visit a library with the JuNSV volumes or access to the online volumes.

That seems to be all post-war proceedings with the usual suspicious grounds.

They are indeed post-war proceedings, but your brief comment shows you fail to understand their extreme relevance to Täubner's 1943 trial and conviction, Himmler's 1945 pardon, and the FDR court rulings that Täubner could not be tried again for the same offences.

What would interest me is the complete contemporary original document regarding the SS-verdict.

And I posted step-by-step instructions on how you could get hold of them several days ago:
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=80866#p80866

To me that sounds like reprisal killings against partisans. And Taeubner seems to have done something involving killings that exceeded his mandate, but as said the original document is what we'd be looking for first.

As I said, you know how you can to get those docs. Begging for them isn't a good look.

[Hannover]

The Rabbit said, after being challenged for verbatim text:

And I posted step-by-step instructions on how you could get hold of them several days ago:
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=80866#p80866

IOW, The Rabbit has no idea what's in the alleged text, but still has faith that something which is hidden away will surely pull his chestnuts from the fire.
again:

I note that The Black Rabbit cites two authors on Taubner, Danny S. Parker and Jürgen Matthäus, but The Rabbit predictably fails to tell us what they claim about Taubner.
That all follows since The Black Rabbit is a believer in the utterly impossible 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz / Birkenau.

And you just can't help but laugh again at The Rabbit as he presents text from leftist PC Spiegel, of all sources, as if it carries weight.
The Spiegel content is beyond loony with not a shred of proof presented.

More specifically, from the 1st page of this thread, we still have no proof for this nonsense which was taken from the debunked 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press,
NY, 1988, p, 196-207:

1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry himself. Real hatred of the Jews was the driving motivation for the accused. In the process he let himself be drawn into committing cruel actions in Alexandriya which are unworthy of a German man and an SS-officer. These excesses cannot be justified, either, as the accused would like to, as retaliation for the pain that the Jews have caused the German people. It is not the German way to apply Bolshevic methods during the necessary extermination of the worst enemy of our people. In so doing the conduct of the accused gives rise to considerable concern. The accused allowed his men to act with such vicious brutality that they conducted themselves under his command like a savage horde...
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/t/ ... 43-verdict

Too easy.

- Hannover

Dare to examine the absurd & laughable 'holocaust' storyline rationally, logically, scientifically and it falls apart like the house-of-cards that it is.

[EtienneSC]

What Reinecke were the investigations about?

I have now made a copy of the Bundesarchiv version of the Täubner verdict as a pdf and am uploading it here:
[UPLOAD FAILED - HTTP ERROR]

As you can see, it is a typescript copy of the original verdict (Verurteil) made for the use of a legal inquiry into Reinecke and signed and dated "Betzler. Ang, München, 14.8.1959" (page 3). There is a signature of "Huber" on page 15. Hence, we can conclude that there is some document alleged to be from December 1943 that is being copied for the proceedings against Reinecke around that time.

To answer Hektor's question, this is Günther Reinecke, SS judge during the war, a legal scholar who published a thesis on legal history (Münchener Privatrecht im Mittelalter) in 1936 and testified at the main Nuremberg Trial.

I would be interested to know from any native German speakers if the language of the whole document reads naturally. We have the published essay by Reinecke that indicates his style of writing. Perhaps there are other judgments that he issued that the attached document could be compared with. The content is widely at variance with the reasonable statements made in his scholarly writings and as a witness at Nuremberg.

As noted above, the original may be in the SS files linked to above. I would also be interested if there are any studies of the SS in light of this set of documents, whose custody it has been in, etc. If anyone could access the Täubner file, we might make further progress. Hannover has claimed that something may be hidden behind the paywall, but that is mere supposition. In addition, there are documents relating to the Reinecke investigation about which an article has been written. This does not seem to be available online, but may also shed further light on the matter.

[EtienneSC]

Hello, I am trying to upload a pdf file here. I get a message saying "HTTP ERROR", though the upload seems to take place.

Does anyone know how to upload pdf's here? Is it a permitted file type? I have uploaded pictures in the past, but not this file type.

[Hektor]

...

To me that sounds like reprisal killings against partisans. And Taeubner seems to have done something involving killings that exceeded his mandate, but as said the original document is what we'd be looking for first.

As I said, you know how you can to get those docs. Begging for them isn't a good look.

Fortunately constant whining about requests from others is very good looking.

What Reinecke were the investigations about?

I have now made a copy of the Bundesarchiv version of the Täubner verdict as a pdf and am uploading it here:
[UPLOAD FAILED - HTTP ERROR]
....

Unfortunately the upload appears to have failed. Try any of the online upload sites for linking. Archive.org seems to be the most reliable.

I recall that This Reineke did testify at the IMT and there are records.

RA. PELCKMANN: Wissen Sie etwas davon, Herr Zeuge, ob solche Anweisungen in den Konzentrationslagern auch tatsächlich durchgeführt worden sind?

REINECKE: Die Untersuchungskommissionen des Hauptamtes SS-Gericht haben mir wiederholt in persönlichen Vortragen bestätigt, daß solche Anordnungen in den Konzentrationslagern auch in die Tat umgesetzt wurden. Sie haben mir berichtet, daß die Unterbringung, die hygienischen Verhältnisse, die ärztliche Versorgung, die Verpflegung und auch die Behandlung der Häftlinge zum großen Teil gut war, ebenso das körperliche Aussehen der Häftlinge. Sie haben ebenfalls bestätigt, daß die strengen Verbote gegen Mißhandlungen von Häftlingen wiederholt in den Lagern bekanntgemacht wurden und auch eingehalten wurden. Das Bild der Konzentrationslager im Normalzustand ist daher ein ganz anderes. Von außen herfällt auf die Sauberkeit, die reibungslose Abwicklung des Arbeitsprogramms. Wenn in den Konzentrationslagern Verbrechen begangen worden sind, so geschahen diese so, daß sie der Umwelt verborgen blieben und auch selbst von den Lagerinsassen, soweit sie daran nicht beteiligt waren, nicht wahrgenommen werden konnten.

[475] VORSITZENDER: [zum Zeugen gewandt] Behaupten Sie, diesen Brief persönlich empfangen zu haben oder daß Ihnen diese Tatsachen vorlagen?

REINECKE: Ich habe von diesen Untersuchungskommissionen Berichte bekommen, die mir persönlich vorgelegt worden sind. Aus diesen Berichten war das zu entnehmen, was ich gerade gesagt habe.
http://www.zeno.org/Geschichte/M/Der+N% ... agssitzung

Now that could server for doing comparison on the way he expresses himself in German.

[Hektor]

....
It's telling that this 'information' hasn't been made openly available by the 'holocaust' Industry.
They are trying to hide something.

It contains a copy of Täubner's personnel file and according to the authors quoted below it should contain copies of the original judgment and other documents relating to his trial.

IOW, irrelevant information useless in reviewing the veracity of the case. No verbatim court testimony transcripts, no cross examination transcripts, and no list of evidence presented.

again:

"Max Taubner, Aircraft engineer, joined NSDAP 1932 (expelled for unpunctual payment of membership dues and readmitted in 1937), joined SS January 1933. SS-Untersturmfuhrer in 1. Werkstattzug in Kommandostab RFSS-Nachschubfuhrer. Attempt to bring Taubner to trial after the war failed in 1960. Memmingen Landesgericht and the Munich Oberlandesgericht (Provincial High Court) refused to open the main trial on the grounds that the existence of a prior verdict by the SS court prohibited the carrying out of new criminal proceedings (although Taubner had neither been accused or judged for the murder of Jews). The Bundesgerichthof (Federal Court) upheld this decision on 24 May 1972 (2 ARs 80/72)."

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.

I think any or most records are held by archives under the command of the subsequent governments. Yes and it's indeed telling that a lot of that information wasn't made available for open research in the decades after world war two. But there is various role players: Politicians, officials, lobbyists that may obstruct release. With the politicians it may be lack of interest, with officials simply laziness and as for lobbyists they may just work out anybody that pushes for a release.

[fireofice]

The German word "vernichtet" is translated as "exterminate" here, but it usually means "to destroy; to ruin; to wreck".

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vernichten

So "extermination" seems to be a mistranslation. Saying that the Jews have to be "destroyed" or "ruined" or "wrecked" doesn't really give the impression that they must all be killed down to the last Jew. Of course, killing some Jews would indeed be a part of this process of "ruining" them. And that the judge doesn't feel pity for the Jews killed is not indicative of an extermination plan either.