Auschwitz death toll

[Malle]

I posted this on the old forum:

"What's amazing about this story? Well, let us see:

In 1948 it's alleged that 300.000 died in Auschwitz
In 1989 it's alleged that 4,000.000 died in Auschwitz
In 2000 it's alleged that 1,500.000 died in Auschwitz"

And got this answer from Hans:

The above list is an excellent example of the dishonest techniques of revisionism (some call it denial therefore). The truth is that the Auschwitz death toll hasn't changed significantly for over 50 years in the serious sources!

Höss admitted already in 1946 Nuremberg that 1.125.000 Jews were deported/killed in Auschwitz.

The expert opinion of Nachman Blumental at the Höss trial estimated that 1.3 to 1.5 Million perished in Auschwitz.

Historian Reitlinger estimated in the early 50s that at least 900.000 people perished in Auschwitz.

Hilberg estimated that 1 Million Jews perished in Auschwitz.

And in the most comprehensive and thourough study, the Historian Piper has shown in 1990 that about 1.1 Million people died in Auschwitz.

Latest research says that the figure is closer to 1 Million.

So what is amazing is that the Auschwitz death toll hasn't changed significantly for 50 years.

Hans actually calls me a liar or at least dishonest. But I haven't made these figures up. Let's look at the evidence.

300,000 figure


Click on picture to see movie

4,000,000 figure


The sign at the memorial between the 2 cremation buildings in Birkenau that was removed in 1989 (photo: 1988)

1,500,000 figure


The sign at the memorial between the 2 cremation buildings in Birkenau today

[Hannover]

Oh really? Hasn't changed in 50 years?

-Lucy Dawidowicz (1974) claimed 2-4 million at Auschwitz
-Yehuda Bauer (1982) claimed 2 million Jews.
-Konnilyn Feig (1979), p. 339f claimed four million.
-Martin Gilbert (1980), Auschwitz and the Allies, p. 337 claimed "minimum" "two million Jews" and "two million" others, i.e., Poles, Russians, homosexuals, the usual.
- Jean Claude Pressac claimed 470,00 in 1994
- Meyer in the journal, 'Ost-Europa', said 300,000 Jews...just this year...oops.

And there is no credible evidence to sustain any of it.

Yet there's lot's more:

Date - Official sources of information Figures

31.12.1945 French Investigation Panel on Nazi-War-Crimes 8.000.000
19.08.1998 Chief Rabbi from Poland (Süddeutsche Zeitung) 6.000.000
20.04.1978 Le Monde (French daily paper) 5.000.000
23.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper) 5.000.000
20.04.1989 Eugen Kogon, Der SS-Staat (famous book of a holocaust survivor, page 176) 4.500.000
31.12.1952 Der Neue Herder (Enzyclopedia, Germany) 7. edition (page 214) 4.500.000
01.10.1946 IMT-Document 008-USSR (Nuremberg Military Tribunal) 4.000.000
02.05.1997 USA-Today (daily paper USA) 4.000.000
24.11.1989 Head prosecutor Majorowsky, Wuppertal, Germany (indictment 12 Js 1037/89) 4.000.000
26.07.1990 Allgem. Jüdische Wo.Ztg. (Jewish weekly, Bonn) 4.000.000
08.10.1993 ZDF-Nachrichten (German TV) 4.000.000
25.01.1995 Wetzlarer Neue Zeitung (German daily paper) 4.000.000
01.10.1946 IMT-Document 3868-PS (Nuremberg Military Tribunal) 3.000.000
01.01.1995 Damals (official monthly magazine on history, sponsored by the Bonn government) 3.000.000
18.07.1990 The Peninsula Times (daily paper, S.Francisco, USA) 2.000.000
25.07.1990 Hamburger Abendblatt (daily paper Germany) 2.000.000
27.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper, quoting Chancellor Helmut Kohl. Minimum of 2 million) 2.000.000
02.05.1997 USA-Today (daily paper USA) 1.500.000
11.06.1992 Allgem. Jüdische Wo.Ztg (Jewish weekly, Bonn) 1.500.000
08.10.1993 ZDF (German TV) 1.500.000
23.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper) 1.500.000
01.09.1989 Le Monde (French daily paper) 1.433.000
02.02.1995 BUNTE Illustrierte (German weekly magazine) 1.400.000
22.01.1995 Welt am Sonntag (German daily, sunday edition) 1.200.000
27.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper) 1.100.000
27.01.1995 IfZ (Institut for Contemporary History, München, sponsored by the Bonn government) 1.000.000
31.12.1989 Pressac, Auschwitz, Technique ... (official report on Auschwitz, commissioned by the Jewish Beate Klarsfeld Foundation) 928.000
27.09.1993 Die Welt (German daily paper) 800.000
22.01.1995 Welt am Sonntag (German daily, sunday edition) 750.000
01.05.1994 Focus (German weekly magazine) 700.000
23.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper) 700.000
31.12.1994 Pressac, Die Krematorien ... (2nd official report on Auschwitz, commissioned by the Jewish Beate Klarsfeld Foundation) 470.000
08.01.1948 Welt im Film (British news reel, nbr. 137) 300.000
06.01.1990 Frankfurter Rundschau (German daily paper) 74.000
31.05.1994 Hoffmann, Stalins Vernichtungskrieg (Book, written by a renowned German historian, p.302 f.) 74.000
17.08.1994 Intern. Red Cross Arolsen - Department of holocaust investigations (Ref. nbr.: 10824) 66.206

- Hannover

[Sailor]

And got this answer from Hans:

Quote:
The above list is an excellent example of the dishonest techniques of revisionism (some call it denial therefore).

A typical smear by an anti-revisionist. It is designed to get one's gander up. If you don't agree with a believer, than you are a lier, denier, Nazi, anti-semite, stupid, pseudo, or just plain bad.

Höss admitted already in 1946 Nuremberg that 1.125.000 Jews were deported/killed in Auschwitz.

During the IMT Höß stated under oath that during his time as Lage Kommandant 2.5 Million Jews were gassed and 0.5 Million died from starvation, disease, maltreatment. Then he changed this to a million ore so, then back to 3 million, then in Poland back to 1 Million or so. He changed the numbers like others change their shirt. He also seems to be quite confused about the numbers of deportees from the various different countries. (Fridjof Meyer).

The expert opinion of Nachman Blumental at the Höss trial estimated that 1.3 to 1.5 Million perished in Auschwitz.

Not another expert!

Historian Reitlinger estimated in the early 50s that at least 900.000 people perished in Auschwitz.

Reitlinger a historian? He was a wealthy Jewish art dealer to my recollection. I don't have his book, how did he arrive at his number?

Hilberg estimated that 1 Million Jews perished in Auschwitz.

Hilberg is a Jewish lawyer. He did not even visit the Auschwitz camp or check through their archives before he wrote his book. I wonder how he arrived at his number. He gave a not very convincing performance during the first Zündel trial in Toronto, Canada, in 1985 and refused to participate in the second trial in 1988.

And in the most comprehensive and thourough study, the Historian Piper has shown in 1990 that about 1.1 Million people died in Auschwitz.

Dr. Piper based his studies on the Jewish communist agent Danuta Czech's 'Calendarium' which gives no sources.

Latest research says that the figure is closer to 1 Million.

That must be the research done by the poster himself, who was successfully re-educated and 'bewältigte die Vergangenheit' (came to terms with the past). One can only wonder how this number was arrived at without evidence of the murder weapon (gas chamber), without believable evidence of how these dead were disposed of and without traces of their remains!

So what is amazing is that the Auschwitz death toll hasn't changed significantly for 50 years.

The death-books discovered in some Moscow archives indicate some 70,000 dead, Pressac came up with less than 600,000 and Fridjof Meyer with 300,000 or 400,000 gassed. From the original estimate of 4 Million (8 Million by the French in 1945), that to me seems to be quite a significant change!

fge

[TMoran]

As for the well publicized announcement that the Auschwitz numbers were lowered from 4 million down to 1 million we can honestly say without any concern for objection that if we had the numbers at 4 million and now it's said 1 million that the 3 million never were in the first place.

In fact if we have that record of such people as Polish authorities and the Simon Wiesenthal Center acknowledging the reduction then we would have in that same record that they admit the 3,000,000 were total fiction.

[Hyman]

....
-Martin Gilbert (1980), Auschwitz and the Allies, p. 337 claimed "minimum" "two million Jews" and "two million" others, i.e., Poles, Russians, homosexuals, the usual.
....
- Hannover

From Gilbert's writing below one can conclude that he would have us believe not only did 2 million+ Jews die at Auschwitz, but that that's how many were gassed there. Revisionist argumentation has pointed to the physical impossibilites of such a high number. The Holocaust standard-bearers try to get around these huge inconsistencies by saying that 'serious' historians always wrote that the death toll for Auschwitz was around a million. But here we have a heavy-hitter amongst establishment Holocaust historians who has posited a number twice that, for gassing alone. Such variations did not prevent the Jewish Mr. Gilbert from being awarded a knighthood for his work on this and other historical writings.

From page 100, "Atlas of the Holocaust", Martin Gilbert, 1988

"The gassing of more than two million Jews at Auschwitz began on 4 May 1942, first at Auschwitz itself, then at the nearby camp of Birkenau, where four gas chambers and crematoria were built during 1942 and early 1943 for the purpose of mass murder."

[Dan]

I've felt for some time now that the Auschwitz number will go down to the 340,000 killed of all races. This was at the Polish trial, and why would they have failed to add more if there were proof of more?

As far as the current PC numbers, 750,000 is probably what we'll hear for some time to come. That Spiegel editor may have left out some Hungarians in his calculations, at least according to Hans Moderator on the other board.

[Sailor]

Dan wrote:
That Spiegel editor may have left out some Hungarians in his calculations, at least according to Hans Moderator on the other board.

Hans Moderator is wrong. He did not understand Fritjof Meyer's article. Meyer calculated his numbers on the alleged capabilities of Bunkers I and II as gas chambers and his idea of the capabitilies of the crematoria, using 3 bodies per muffle, a rediculous 10 hours operation a day (based on a Höß testimony in Cracow), and every day full operation regardless whether there were dead (or new Jew transport arrivals) or not.
Mattogno went over Meyer's article in: Auschwitz-Opferzahl: Das Zahlen-Roulett dreht sich weiter. Die neuen Revisionen Fritjof Meyers (The Auschwitz Number of Victims: The Number-Roulette Keeps on Turning. The new Revisions of Fritjof Meyer).

I think that Meyer had too much "Schnaps".

fge

[max]

Sailor has apparently not well read and well understood the study of Fritjof Meyer.

Meyer does take the approach of estimating the Auschwitz death toll by calculating the cremation capacity. However, and here Sailor is totally wrong, he also takes the demographic approach and estimates the deportees from Hungary (see Fritjof Meyer, Die Zahl der Opfer von Auschwitz, footnote 34, 35 in: Osteuropa, Zeitschrift für Gegenwartsfragen des Ostens, May 2002), as Dan mentioned, and he is entirely correct.

[max]

Hey Dan, but there is no Polish trial that found a 340,000 Auschwitz death toll.

Yes, you're right, the Wochenschau clip is a fraud!

[Dan]

Oh, well. Who was behind it, and who discovered it?

[Hannover]

Perhaps Max can tell us if he accepts the results of Meyer's article. If so, why? If not, why? If he doesn't accept it, then why would he be citing it?

- Hannover

[Sailor]

Max:
Sailor has apparently not well read and well understood the study of Fritjof Meyer.

Well,I try to do my best, you know. It has been a couple of months though since I read it the last time.

How about Max, had he read and understood Fritjof’s article well? And Hans Moderator, did he also read it and understand it well?

I love the part where Fritjof comes to the conclusion that the Birkenau morgue 1 could not possibly have technically functioned as a gas chamber for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews. The revisionists knew this actually since a long time. You may not have been aware of this.

The fact alone of a misdesign of the air ventilation system with an air flow short circuit: The alleged HCN gas being exhausted right back into the intake system! What a beaut’.

And then Fritjof’s calculations! Mattogno labels them “break neck calculations”. I plan to summarize those to post here. Great reading! Great stuff!

fge