I see the question of if there was no Holocaust then what happened to all the Jews. In fact J-wish organizations have put full page ads in the New York Times with the very question - "If the was no Holocaust what happened to all the Jews".
Many revisionist fall for this and try to get into extravagent explanations when none of it is necessary.
The answer is simple, if there was no Holocaust then the alleged six million J-ws never were in the first place.
Just like the 3 million that was subtracted from the original 4 million once claimed for Auschwitz. No need to go out and look for the 3 million. They never were in the first place.
It's simple - If no Holocaust ...
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TMoran wrote:... Many revisionists fall for this and try to get into extravagent explanations when none of it is necessary....
You may be right, but the other side has miles of documents and eye witnesses to 'prove' their point. Just saying it didn't happen aint gonna cut it. To implant doubt about the official version into anyone, we have to be a little more sophisticated, IMHO.
Wilf
neugierig says:
But the so called "miles of documents" and laughable "eyewitnesses" have been utterly demolished by Revisionists. There is nothing they have which we haven't shot down.
So what's your point? Do you have something which you feel is convincing for the Believers case? If so, bring it. Be specific.
- Hannover
You may be right, but the other side has miles of documents and eye witnesses to 'prove' their point.
But the so called "miles of documents" and laughable "eyewitnesses" have been utterly demolished by Revisionists. There is nothing they have which we haven't shot down.
So what's your point? Do you have something which you feel is convincing for the Believers case? If so, bring it. Be specific.
- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.
As to my saying:
Many revisionist fall for this and try to get into extravagent explanations when none of it is necessary.
The answer is simple, if there was no Holocaust then the alleged six million J-ws never were in the first place.
Just like the 3 million that was subtracted from the original 4 million once claimed for Auschwitz. No need to go out and look for the 3 million. They never were in the first place.
neugierig replies:
You may be right, but the other side has miles of documents and eye witnesses to 'prove' their point. Just saying it didn't happen aint gonna cut it. To implant doubt about the official version into anyone, we have to be a little more sophisticated, IMHO.
===============================================
"Miles"?. "Mountains" and "millions" are other words by others that have been used to describe Holocaust evidence.
All it would take to show the 'miles', 'mountains' and 'millions' is all bunk is two guys with shovels and about two days digging into a few of the alleged mass graves that are marked by memorials.
It's all quite poetic wouldn't you think?
Many revisionist fall for this and try to get into extravagent explanations when none of it is necessary.
The answer is simple, if there was no Holocaust then the alleged six million J-ws never were in the first place.
Just like the 3 million that was subtracted from the original 4 million once claimed for Auschwitz. No need to go out and look for the 3 million. They never were in the first place.
neugierig replies:
You may be right, but the other side has miles of documents and eye witnesses to 'prove' their point. Just saying it didn't happen aint gonna cut it. To implant doubt about the official version into anyone, we have to be a little more sophisticated, IMHO.
===============================================
"Miles"?. "Mountains" and "millions" are other words by others that have been used to describe Holocaust evidence.
All it would take to show the 'miles', 'mountains' and 'millions' is all bunk is two guys with shovels and about two days digging into a few of the alleged mass graves that are marked by memorials.
It's all quite poetic wouldn't you think?
TMoran wrote: all it would take to show the 'miles', 'mountains' and
'millions' is all bunk is two guys with shovels.....
I agree, but until this happens, just saying it didn't happen won't do.
I've had discussions with true Believers and even if I present evidence to undermine the official story, all I get is 'I don't believe you', or, they discredit the source or both.
Wilf
The ground penetrating radar video posted here simplifies matters in an elegant way....1 guy and a GPR device and presto!!..the 900,000 allegedly murdered at Treblinka is shot down in a few hours work.
Science over superstition.
There are True Believers that cling to their superstitions a la flat earth, witchcraft, Elvis sightings, virgin births etc...let them go, it's their problem, they'll die dumb & ignorant.
Then there are those who can't admit to being fooled. Heck, we Revisionists once believed but woke up.
Then there are those that benefit from the scam, and oh how they benefit...$$$.
- Hannover
Science over superstition.
There are True Believers that cling to their superstitions a la flat earth, witchcraft, Elvis sightings, virgin births etc...let them go, it's their problem, they'll die dumb & ignorant.
Then there are those who can't admit to being fooled. Heck, we Revisionists once believed but woke up.
Then there are those that benefit from the scam, and oh how they benefit...$$$.
- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.
Singling out my statement to comment on:
... all it would take to show the 'miles', 'mountains' and
'millions' is all bunk is two guys with shovels.....
neugierig says:
I agree, but until this happens, just saying it didn't happen won't do.
I've had discussions with true Believers and even if I present evidence to undermine the official story, all I get is 'I don't believe you', or, they discredit the source or both.
===============================================
I believe the record shows that you yourself made the grand proposal about "miles" of Holocaust evidence and now you're implying firstly that "just saying it didn't happen" is all you may expect from revisionists?
Secondly you say you engage people in debates and propose that the Holocaust story is bogus even though you say there is 'miles' of evidence?
Interesting combination.
... all it would take to show the 'miles', 'mountains' and
'millions' is all bunk is two guys with shovels.....
neugierig says:
I agree, but until this happens, just saying it didn't happen won't do.
I've had discussions with true Believers and even if I present evidence to undermine the official story, all I get is 'I don't believe you', or, they discredit the source or both.
===============================================
I believe the record shows that you yourself made the grand proposal about "miles" of Holocaust evidence and now you're implying firstly that "just saying it didn't happen" is all you may expect from revisionists?
Secondly you say you engage people in debates and propose that the Holocaust story is bogus even though you say there is 'miles' of evidence?
Interesting combination.
To TMoran
I was referring to a contributor on the old CODOH forum who used to post 'miles' of documents, so they do exist. I should have been more specific. But yes, to me this thing is not black and white and no, I don't believe the official version, we are being lied to all the time.
If this is an 'interesting combination', so be it.
Wilf
I was referring to a contributor on the old CODOH forum who used to post 'miles' of documents, so they do exist. I should have been more specific. But yes, to me this thing is not black and white and no, I don't believe the official version, we are being lied to all the time.
If this is an 'interesting combination', so be it.
Wilf
Please post some of those 'documents', we'll see how they hold up.
Let's recall the 'documents' for human soap, the silly 'Bruns document', the phony documents which "prove" German responsibility for Katyn, the laughable 'gas chambers' documents, the impossible cremation rates 'documents', all debunked at this forum....this could be a long list, but well, you get the picture.
Claiming that there are 'documents' only works until they are actually examined.
- Hannover
Let's recall the 'documents' for human soap, the silly 'Bruns document', the phony documents which "prove" German responsibility for Katyn, the laughable 'gas chambers' documents, the impossible cremation rates 'documents', all debunked at this forum....this could be a long list, but well, you get the picture.
Claiming that there are 'documents' only works until they are actually examined.
- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.
Many of the documents referred to by Holocaust defenders are part of a whole, single sheets or letters taken out of a more complex "Briefverkehr" (letter correspondence) about the subject of interest, selected in order to proof a point of the Holocaust story. The complete correspondents about the subject matter seems to be withheld from critical inspection.
Why is that so?
Why is that so?
neugierig said:
For the overwhelming majority of people, it does not matter what evidence you present to them alleging the H is a fraud. It will carry no weight whatsoever. That is just the herdness of people. Reasoning means absolutely naught to the masses.
So, for the purposes of H discussion, let's assume we restrict ourselves to people who can admit the H just might possibly be a Big Lie (i.e. No magical Gas Chambers. No 6e6, No policy to kill jews 'just because they were jews'.)
Now, bearing that in mind, it seems pretty clear that the miles of documents, the so-called eyewitnesses, etc. have been pretty much shown to be worthless. Look at Elie Wiesel. Did his book not say something like "... looking into the children's eyes and they stood inside the flames"? And Wiesel is not some obscure 'witness'. And, of course, this is only one example out of many.
The problem for most people (referring to the ones who MAY be capable of being swayed), is that they simply find it too difficult to believe a Lie of this magnitude could be perpetrated. Hey, it took me about a year before it came crystal clear that the H is indeed a despicable Lie. I myself kept wondering how/why it was/is possible to invent and sustain such a Lie. But, as Sherlock Holmes once said, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbably, must be the truth."
I'm willing to listen to the Hoaxers' arguments. Really. After all, there may very well have been an event that gives significant evidence that maybe, just maybe, gives the hoaxers some credibility. I'll even entertain, for the sake of argument, the existence of Gas Chambers (though it certainly seems to me there simply weren't any.) I even posted a while back this very challenge. I don't want documents, etc. I want clear evidence. No one attempted it.
Steve
You may be right, but the other side has miles of documents and eye witnesses to 'prove' their point. Just saying it didn't happen aint gonna cut it. To implant doubt about the official version into anyone, we have to be a little more sophisticated, IMHO.
For the overwhelming majority of people, it does not matter what evidence you present to them alleging the H is a fraud. It will carry no weight whatsoever. That is just the herdness of people. Reasoning means absolutely naught to the masses.
So, for the purposes of H discussion, let's assume we restrict ourselves to people who can admit the H just might possibly be a Big Lie (i.e. No magical Gas Chambers. No 6e6, No policy to kill jews 'just because they were jews'.)
Now, bearing that in mind, it seems pretty clear that the miles of documents, the so-called eyewitnesses, etc. have been pretty much shown to be worthless. Look at Elie Wiesel. Did his book not say something like "... looking into the children's eyes and they stood inside the flames"? And Wiesel is not some obscure 'witness'. And, of course, this is only one example out of many.
The problem for most people (referring to the ones who MAY be capable of being swayed), is that they simply find it too difficult to believe a Lie of this magnitude could be perpetrated. Hey, it took me about a year before it came crystal clear that the H is indeed a despicable Lie. I myself kept wondering how/why it was/is possible to invent and sustain such a Lie. But, as Sherlock Holmes once said, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbably, must be the truth."
I'm willing to listen to the Hoaxers' arguments. Really. After all, there may very well have been an event that gives significant evidence that maybe, just maybe, gives the hoaxers some credibility. I'll even entertain, for the sake of argument, the existence of Gas Chambers (though it certainly seems to me there simply weren't any.) I even posted a while back this very challenge. I don't want documents, etc. I want clear evidence. No one attempted it.
Steve
I guess Sailor hasn't read many other posts here, because there are certainly plenty of Believer arguments at this bbs. It's just that we have guidelines and the Believers have this way of trashing this forum when they get demolished by Revisionsts, and so a few have been tossed (well, only 3 to date....who have tried switching names to no avail, and there have been 3 Revisionists tossed too... I would call that even handed)
Perhaps Sailor would care to post at the 'Third Reich Forum'....but wait, they don't even allow Revisionists. In fact the only bbs where Revisionists and Believers can debate free of threats, namecalling, dodging, spamming, etc. is right here. And everyone agrees to accept the guidelines when they register.
And what does it say at the top of the 1st page of Comments?.....:
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Perhaps Sailor would care to post at the 'Third Reich Forum'....but wait, they don't even allow Revisionists. In fact the only bbs where Revisionists and Believers can debate free of threats, namecalling, dodging, spamming, etc. is right here. And everyone agrees to accept the guidelines when they register.
And what does it say at the top of the 1st page of Comments?.....:
Please read the FAQ and Rules/Guidelines before you post!
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I think we're wasting time quibbling among ourselves here. Neugierig in my view was simply making the point that in the forum of public opinion revisionists don't get the time of day. He's right. It's not intelligent but it's true. Big time. They THINK there exists mountains of evidence. I got a letter once from a Catholic Bishop, a decent man of good will, who told me that the whole "Holocaust" enchillada had been proven beyond a doubt by scholars. That's what we're up against. My efforts to convince him that he is wrong have not yet met with success - and even if they do I doubt he will dare admit it.
On this board the revisionist win hands down and not just in terms of votes of posters but of substance for those who care to look. We know that.
The problem is and continues to be how to wake up the public to the fraud that has been perpetrated on them when you can't get your view presented in the "mainstream" media or get a book produced by the culture controllers. When the label "Holocaust revisionist" is seen as equivalent to "flat earth believer" by the masses. It's not intelligent but it's true.
We all do what we can to chip away at this Moloch but I know many who suspect the fraud who will not speak up for fear of the consequences. I think that we have to make use of the many concessions which have been made by the promoters and hammer them in the small areas left open to us in the public debate, e.g. the reduction of the deaths at Auschwitz, the Soviet death books, the preposterous nature of the "eye witnesses" stories, etc. It isn't easy when so many are intimidated. Does anyone have any other ideas?
On this board the revisionist win hands down and not just in terms of votes of posters but of substance for those who care to look. We know that.
The problem is and continues to be how to wake up the public to the fraud that has been perpetrated on them when you can't get your view presented in the "mainstream" media or get a book produced by the culture controllers. When the label "Holocaust revisionist" is seen as equivalent to "flat earth believer" by the masses. It's not intelligent but it's true.
We all do what we can to chip away at this Moloch but I know many who suspect the fraud who will not speak up for fear of the consequences. I think that we have to make use of the many concessions which have been made by the promoters and hammer them in the small areas left open to us in the public debate, e.g. the reduction of the deaths at Auschwitz, the Soviet death books, the preposterous nature of the "eye witnesses" stories, etc. It isn't easy when so many are intimidated. Does anyone have any other ideas?
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