Escape Tunnel, Dug by Hand, Is Found at Holocaust Massacre Site

[diaz52]

See below for the link and the full article following my 8 points o' interest:

1. They discovered the mouth of this tunnel in 2004, and only now were able to find the rest of the tunnel? Seems to me that the rest of the tunnel would've been right behind the mouth of the tunnel. IDK. I'm no 'tunnel building expert', but that's where I would've looked: Right behind the mouth of the tunnel.

2. The dramatic footage of this 'tunnel discovery' will be on PBS next year which will no doubt live up it's name 'Pure BS'. Hopefully Carolyn Sturdy Colls won't be around, getting in the way and crying all over the broken pieces of tile.

3. The article states:

"From 1941 until 1944, tens of thousands of Jews from the nearby city of Vilnius, known as the Jerusalem of Lithuania, were brought to Ponar and shot at close range. Their bodies were dumped into the pits and buried."

Well now that's cutting it rather close, isn't it? The Germans invaded in June 1941. It's possible those bodies belong to people murdered by the communists, isn't it? The article further states that the victims were shot at close range. This is the first I've heard of the Germans shooting people at close range as a means of mass murder. This is rather too sensible. The Germans usually are said to have used these Rube Goldberg machines of extermination. The Soviets, the NKVD specifically and the Cheka before them, were the ones who used the single shot to the back of the neck to murder their victims. Easy, peasy, Japanesy. So, needless to say evidence would need to be gathered such as any identifiers such as what remains of their clothing, the caliber and make of the bullets recovered, etc, to determine more.

4. Again with the whole 'burying, exhuming and burning of the bodies. And then the re-burying of the ashes' thing. We've seen this before. And again with the colorful names for these specialist groups of Jews doing the work: the 'corpse unit', the 'burning brigade' just as we have the 'sheissmeisters' supposedly timing latrine use and the sonder kommandos at other camps, etc. Same old song, same old songbook.

5. Of course one guy finds his wife and two sisters among the corpses. Right. It's an incredibly disgusting thing to consider, but very very dramatic. Like the girl in the red dress in Speilberg's famous fictional movie. You can be sure they'll include this story in the PBS show next year. SMH.. Such drama queens...

6. At the beginning of the article, it states that "80 Jews dug [the tunnel] by hand..." then later it states that only half the group did the digging. So 40, 80.. meh, whats the difference. Furthermore it states that they spent 76 days digging this tunnel, emerging on April 15th 1944 which was the last night of passover 'when they knew the night would be darkest'? What? Nevermind.

Most importantly about this however are the dates and time spent digging. If they emerged on April 15th 1944 then that means that they started digging 76 days earlier which is January 30th. So, in Lithuania, in the dead of winter, these people dug a tunnel using their hands and spoons? Really? Wasn't the earth frozen? They must have been very well fed prisoners to have had all that energy to do that...

7. Isn't it interesting that the one Israeli archaeologist at the end immediately starts talking about how this will help stop people from questioning the established holocaust narrative. Holocaust revisionism is ALWAYS foremost on their mind.

8. And lastly, they're "using those FM radio waves that people listen to in their car and we’re putting them into the ground,” to help them see whats below. One can only imagine the lame ass Neil Diamond they're cranking into the earth at full volume... As if those poor souls haven't suffered enough... LOL..


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/scien ... .html?_r=0

Escape Tunnel, Dug by Hand, Is Found at Holocaust Massacre Site
By NICHOLAS ST. FLEURJUNE 29, 2016

A team of archaeologists and mapmakers say they have uncovered a forgotten tunnel that 80 Jews dug largely by hand as they tried to escape from a Nazi extermination site in Lithuania about 70 years ago.

The Lithuanian site, Ponar, holds mass burial pits and graves where up to 100,000 people were killed and their bodies dumped or burned during the Holocaust.

Using radar and radio waves to scan beneath the ground, the researchers found the tunnel, a 100-foot passageway between five and nine feet below the surface, the team announced on Wednesday.

A previous attempt made by a different team in 2004 to find the underground structure had only located its mouth, which was subsequently left unmarked. The new finding traces the tunnel from entrance to exit and provides evidence to support survivor accounts of the harrowing effort to escape the holding pit.

“What we were able to do was not only solve one of the greatest mysteries and escape stories of the Holocaust,” said Richard Freund, an archaeologist from the University of Hartford in Connecticut and one of the team leaders. “We were also able to unravel one of the biggest problems they have with a site like this: How many burial pits are there?”

Dr. Freund and his colleagues, working with the PBS science series NOVA for a documentary that will be broadcast next year, also uncovered another burial pit containing the ashes of perhaps 7,000 people. That would be the 12th burial pit identified in Ponar; officially known today as Paneriai.

From 1941 until 1944, tens of thousands of Jews from the nearby city of Vilnius, known as the Jerusalem of Lithuania, were brought to Ponar and shot at close range. Their bodies were dumped into the pits and buried.

“I call Ponar ground zero for the Holocaust,” Dr. Freund said. “For the first time we have systematic murder being done by the Nazis and their assistants.” According to Dr. Freund, the events at the site took place about six months before the Nazis started using gas chambers elsewhere for their extermination plans.

An estimated 100,000 people, including 70,000 Jews, died at Ponar. Over four years, about 150 Lithuanian collaborators killed the prisoners — usually in groups of about 10. In 1943 when it became clear the Soviets were going to take over Lithuania, the Nazis began to cover up the evidence of the mass killings. They forced a group of 80 Jews to exhume the bodies, burn them and bury the ashes. At the time they were called the Leichenkommando, or “corpse unit,” but in the years that followed they were known as the Burning Brigade.

For months, the Jewish prisoners dug up and burned bodies. One account tells of a man who identified his wife and two sisters among the corpses. The group knew that once their job was finished, they, too, would be executed, so they developed an escape plan.

About half of the group spent 76 days digging a tunnel in their holding pit by hand and with spoons they found among the bodies. On April 15, 1944 — the last night of Passover when they knew the night would be darkest — the brigade crawled through the two-foot-square tunnel entrance and through to the forest.

The noise alerted the guards, who pursued the prisoners with guns and dogs. Of the 80, 12 managed to escape; 11 of them survived the war and went on to tell their stories, according to the researchers.

Dr. Freund and his team used the information from survivors’ accounts to search for the tunnel.

Rather then excavate and disturb the remains, he and his team used two noninvasive tools — electrical resistivity tomography and ground penetrating radar.

Electrical resistivity tomography is like an M.R.I. for the ground; it provides a clear picture of the subsurface. It uses electricity to identify stones, metal and clay as well as soil disturbances like those made by digging.

“We used the tool to pinpoint the locations where people most likely tunneled through,” said Paul Bauman a geophysicist with WorleyParsons, an Australian engineering company, who handled the tomography tool. “We’re highly confident we’ve identified exactly where the tunnel is.”

With the tool, they also found a previously unknown pit which they think is the largest ever discovered in the area. They estimate that it might have contained as many as 10,000 bodies.

The other tool, the ground penetrating radar, uses FM radio waves to scan about 10 feet under the surface.

“What we are doing is using those FM radio waves that people listen to in their car and we’re putting them into the ground,” said Harry Jol, professor of geology and anthropology at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire. “We’re getting reflections off the archaeological features or landscapes in the subsurface so we can image what’s happening.”

The team also used the ground penetrating radar to search for the Great Synagogue of Vilnius, which was destroyed by the Nazis.

“The Holocaust is so overwhelming that we only really look at the end of the story — and that isn’t the whole story,” said Jon Seligman, an archaeologist with the Israel Antiquities Authority, who also led the team. “The whole story is the history of Jews who lived in this area for many, many centuries.”

Before World War II, Vilnius was a bustling Jewish center with more than 100,000 people. When the Soviets took over Lithuania, they erected an elementary school over the rubble of the city’s Great Synagogue. Using the radar, the team uncovered artifacts from the synagogue, including its ritual bath house.

“If we had never discovered the tunnel, people would have thought in another 20 years it was a myth, and they would have questioned – What do we really know happened?” said Dr. Freund. “This is a great story about the way that people overcame the worst possible condition, and still had this hope that they could get out.”

[borjastick]

Diaz, there are various categories of holohoax tale and this one is firmly in the 'here we go again' drawer.

I was just reading the story when your post popped up.

I agree with everything you said but would add that once again they claim massive numbers of dead jews and others but with no, none, rien, de nada, zero human remains. How does that work then?

They then claim that 80 men dug up 100,000 decaying bodies. Really?

Why, having found the tunnel entrance 12 years ago, would they not have clearly marked its location???

Why? I'll tell you why, because this story hadn't been made up then.

[diaz52]

Diaz, there are various categories of holohoax tale and this one is firmly in the 'here we go again' drawer.

I was just reading the story when your post popped up.

I agree with everything you said but would add that once again they claim massive numbers of dead jews and others but with no, none, rien, de nada, zero human remains. How does that work then?

They then claim that 80 men dug up 100,000 decaying bodies. Really?

Why, having found the tunnel entrance 12 years ago, would they not have clearly marked its location???

Why? I'll tell you why, because this story hadn't been made up then.

Yeah the idea that so few men could dig up all those putrescent corpses, burn and then rebury the ashes is just absurd beyond belief. Nevermind the ton of forensic evidence that would've been left behind. And indeed why didn't they mark the entrance? So weird, as always with this hoax. The discovery process and release of information is always so weird and complicated by their stupid lies. They can never just release new discoveries without first hiding it until they can figure out a way to fit it into the existing narrative. It's always so weird and deceitful how they handle new information about this absurd hoax. Its like the Rabbi instructing Colls at Treblinka to clear everything with him before she digs here or there. Information is to be tightly controlled and kept from the goyim, until it can be properly vetted. Its all so rotten.

[Hannover]

The propaganda article says:

Using radar and radio waves to scan beneath the ground, the researchers found the tunnel, a 100-foot passageway between five and nine feet below the surface, the team announced on Wednesday.

Then why don't they show us this laughable "tunnel".

An estimated 100,000 people, including 70,000 Jews, died at Ponar. Over four years, about 150 Lithuanian collaborators killed the prisoners — usually in groups of about 10. In 1943 when it became clear the Soviets were going to take over Lithuania, the Nazis began to cover up the evidence of the mass killings. They forced a group of 80 Jews to exhume the bodies, burn them and bury the ashes. At the time they were called the Leichenkommando, or “corpse unit,” but in the years that followed they were known as the Burning Brigade.

There would literally be tons of human remains that could be seen if the lie was fact, we see nothing.

Dr. Freund and his colleagues, working with the PBS science series NOVA for a documentary that will be broadcast next year, also uncovered another burial pit containing the ashes of perhaps 7,000 people. That would be the 12th burial pit identified in Ponar; officially known today as Paneriai.

Then why is there no photos of this phantom "pit"?
"12 pits", but not a single one to be seen. Laughable 'holocaust' propaganda at it's most absurd.

The discredited storyline says that 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on' yet we have Jews all over the place 'digging tunnels, escaping, surviving', all the while the Germans were completely ignoring them I suppose. Talk about a childish fantasy tall tale, this is just another in the 'holocaust' library of the impossible. No wonder Revisionist are constantly winning over so many converts.

Electrical resistivity tomography is like an M.R.I. for the ground; it provides a clear picture of the subsurface. It uses electricity to identify stones, metal and clay as well as soil disturbances like those made by digging.
“We used the tool to pinpoint the locations where people most likely tunneled through,” said Paul Bauman a geophysicist with WorleyParsons, an Australian engineering company, who handled the tomography tool. “We’re highly confident we’ve identified exactly where the tunnel is.”
With the tool, they also found a previously unknown pit which they think is the largest ever discovered in the area. They estimate that it might have contained as many as 10,000 bodies.
The other tool, the ground penetrating radar, uses FM radio waves to scan about 10 feet under the surface.

"Estimated 10,000 bodies"? Based upon what? Wishful thinking?

Then again, why don't we see what is alleged, verified human remains of Jews?

And why hasn't this technology been used and results displayed for places like Treblinka where an alleged mass grave of 900,000 Jews is said to exist, or at Babi Yar where an alleged mass grave for 34,000 Jews is claimed? Oops.

They are hiding their lack of results by relying on bluff, aka: chutzpah.

Before World War II, Vilnius was a bustling Jewish center with more than 100,000 people. When the Soviets took over Lithuania, they erected an elementary school over the rubble of the city’s Great Synagogue. Using the radar, the team uncovered artifacts from the synagogue, including its ritual bath house.
“If we had never discovered the tunnel, people would have thought in another 20 years it was a myth, and they would have questioned – What do we really know happened?” said Dr. Freund. “This is a great story about the way that people overcame the worst possible condition, and still had this hope that they could get out.”

"Ritual bath house"? Hardly the stuff of '6M Jews'.
"Myth"? No, an easily debunked lie.

Bring in the clowns.

Odd how some people want '6M Jews' to be dead while Revisionists don't.

- Hannover

"Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."
- Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

[Free Speech]

I saw the article today too, this is the most unbelievable part:

the brigade crawled through the two-foot-square tunnel entrance and through to the forest.

Does anyone proofread this or ??? Worst thing is it will be on PBS.

[Dresden]

My guess is that it is a sewer drain for waste water.

[hermod]

Every mining worker in this world, or anybody who has already watched the movie 'The Great Escape,' knows that one needs wood, a lot of wood, to build a tunnel !



In 'The Great Escape,' the prisoners partly dismantled their barracks and beds to get enough wood for their tunnel. But the alleged 'Blobel Kommando' of Ponary had no barracks and no beds, it's said. Instead, it's claimed that...

Each night the eighty prisoners were forced to sleep in a deep pit to which the only access was by a ladder drawn up each evening. Each morning, chained at the ankles and waist, they were put to work to dig up and burn tens of thousands of corpses.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... onary.html

So where did they find the wood they needed to build their tunnel?

They couldn't bring wood from oustide, from out of their 'sleeping pit,' since they could of course not hide some wood in a pit.

Where do some Jews find the wood they need to build their tunnel IN A PIT??? Digging is good, but that doesn't build a tunnel. Without wood, their story would be known today as 'Burried Alive!' not 'Escape Tunnel' ...

[Hannover]

Notice that in the promotional video in the NYT piece given in the OP, http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/scien ... .html?_r=0
we see the so called 'execution pit' as being completely surrounded by a wall of rocks.

However, in the so called 'Holocaust Research Project' link at: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... onary.html
we see this contrivance:

"Another view of the Ponary execution pit"


Then we see these beauties:

"Jews lined up at the execution pit in Ponary"
and:

"Lithuanians stand guard over the prisoners to killed"

Now try to imagine an alleged 'top secret operation' where taking pictures is allowed. It wouldn't happen.

And notice the bizarre cut & paste quality of the "Jews / prisoners" within this 'pit'. Laughable.
Yes, I know, the communist Zionists would never stoop to such behavior, not a chance.

Not to be outdone by such silliness we have:

"Ponary dead lying in the dirt 1943"

There is absolutely no proof:

1. that these are dead Jews murdered by the Germans and / or by their alleged 'collaborators', they could just as well be those murdered by Stalin's creeps, in fact the bottom row looks highly suspect, like props from 'The Body Snatchers'.

2. that this is even Ponary, could be anywhere where people died; but wait a minute, we're told the 'murderers cremated everyone and buried the remains' .... Oops!

And the cherry on top is:

As the doctor later recalled:
"She was among the corpses up to sunset and then she heard the wild shouting of those who carried out the murder. She somehow or other managed to get out of the heaps of corpses, she got to the barbed wire entanglements – she managed to cross them and she found a common Polish peasant woman who bandaged her wounds, gave her flowers and said, “Run away from here, but carry flowers as if you were a common peasant, so that they shouldn’t recognise that you are a Jewess.”

"Somehow or other" indeed. Another 'holocaust' "miracle".

Now let's see if the hapless 'Holocaust Research Project' changes the links I've given.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

- Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

[Review]

.....Not to be outdone by such silliness we have:

"Ponary dead lying in the dirt 1943"

There is absolutely no proof:

1. that these are dead Jews murdered by the Germans and / or by their alleged 'collaborators', they could just as well be those murdered by Stalin's creeps, in fact the bottom row looks highly suspect, like props from 'The Body Snatchers'.

2. that this is even Ponary, could be anywhere where people died; but wait a minute, we're told the 'murderers cremated everyone and buried the remains' .... Oops!
...t

That image is also used in a norwegian newspaper article about SOVIET massacres in the Baltics, with the caption:

Local jews paid the price for the killings in Rainiai [communist massacre location] since many of the people responsible for the massacre were allegedly jews [serving communism]

Of course, there is no source for the picture, and they could also be Lithuanian/other Baltic victims from the communist massacres.

Another quote from the article:

Many of the people responsible behind the massacres were supposed to have been jews, a fact that led to antisemitism in Lithuania and Latvia during the war. We have examples of lithuanians who took part in the holocaust to take revenge on these massacres. Just like in Germany, there was a belief that communist were jews, as jews were behind the Russian revolution and bolshevism, says the historian Kristina Burinskaite

There is also some pretty gruesome descriptions of the communist torture/killings in the article..

http://www.dagbladet.no/2009/03/05/maga ... e/5137478/

[Review]

.....Not to be outdone by such silliness we have:

"Ponary dead lying in the dirt 1943"

There is absolutely no proof:

1. that these are dead Jews murdered by the Germans and / or by their alleged 'collaborators', they could just as well be those murdered by Stalin's creeps, in fact the bottom row looks highly suspect, like props from 'The Body Snatchers'.

2. that this is even Ponary, could be anywhere where people died; but wait a minute, we're told the 'murderers cremated everyone and buried the remains' ...t

...

Of course, there is no source for the picture, and they could also be Lithuanian/other Baltic victims from the communist massacres.

..../

OTOH, this blogger claims the picture is from Poland

https://padresteve.com/2015/10/18/prelu ... in-poland/

[diaz52]

And why hasn't this technology been used and results displayed for places like Treblinka where an alleged mass grave of 900,000 Jews is said to exist, or at Babi Yar where an alleged mass grave for 34,000 Jews is claimed? Oops.

Excellent question. If we had a free media, and lived in a free country, then this question would've been asked of them by now to see what cover story they'd use. But we don't. I know you know this, but being in control of the media allows you to control what questions get asked and what questions don't get asked. So they get off the hook scot-free. As technology becomes more affordable and more portable, one wonders if there isn't going to be a phone app at some point that allows you to use FM radio waves to see below the ground, lol.

[diaz52]

I saw the article today too, this is the most unbelievable part:

the brigade crawled through the two-foot-square tunnel entrance and through to the forest.

Does anyone proofread this or ??? Worst thing is it will be on PBS.

Right. Yeah it will be on the Pure BS network, lol.. Well on the one hand that means it won't get a wide viewership, as the vast majority of the population, the couch potatoes and Joe Sixpacks and Sally Soccermoms, avoid PBS like the plague.

[diaz52]

My guess is that it is a sewer drain for waste water.

Yeah, you're prolly right.

[diaz52]

Every mining worker in this world, or anybody who has already watched the movie 'The Great Escape,' knows that one needs wood, a lot of wood, to build a tunnel !



In 'The Great Escape,' the prisoners partly dismantled their barracks and beds to get enough wood for their tunnel. But the alleged 'Blobel Kommando' of Ponary had no barracks and no beds, it's said. Instead, it's claimed that...

Each night the eighty prisoners were forced to sleep in a deep pit to which the only access was by a ladder drawn up each evening. Each morning, chained at the ankles and waist, they were put to work to dig up and burn tens of thousands of corpses.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... onary.html

So where did they find the wood they needed to build their tunnel?

They couldn't bring wood from oustide, from out of their 'sleeping pit,' since they could of course not hide some wood in a pit.

Where do some Jews find the wood they need to build their tunnel IN A PIT??? Digging is good, but that doesn't build a tunnel. Without wood, their story would be known today as 'Burried Alive!' not 'Escape Tunnel' ...

Yeah I remember watching the great escape as a kid. Great movie. And yeah without wood shoring up the tunnel it would indeed become 'Buried Alive' and not 'The Great Escape'. As is so often the case with this hoax, once you look into it the whole thing comes crashing down like a poorly constructed tunnel.

People crawled through a two foot square tunnel for 100 feet, a tunnel that isn't shored up with wooden beams? Yeah right. You don't have to be a cowboy to smell the BS.

[diaz52]

Notice that in the promotional video in the NYT piece given in the OP, http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/scien ... .html?_r=0
we see the so called 'execution pit' as being completely surrounded by a wall of rocks.

However, in the so called 'Holocaust Research Project' link at: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... onary.html
we see this contrivance:

"Another view of the Ponary execution pit"


Then we see these beauties:

"Jews lined up at the execution pit in Ponary"
and:

"Lithuanians stand guard over the prisoners to killed"

Now try to imagine an alleged 'top secret operation' where taking pictures is allowed. It wouldn't happen.

And notice the bizarre cut & paste quality of the "Jews / prisoners" within this 'pit'. Laughable.
Yes, I know, the communist Zionists would never stoop to such behavior, not a chance.

Not to be outdone by such silliness we have:

"Ponary dead lying in the dirt 1943"

There is absolutely no proof:

1. that these are dead Jews murdered by the Germans and / or by their alleged 'collaborators', they could just as well be those murdered by Stalin's creeps, in fact the bottom row looks highly suspect, like props from 'The Body Snatchers'.

2. that this is even Ponary, could be anywhere where people died; but wait a minute, we're told the 'murderers cremated everyone and buried the remains' .... Oops!

And the cherry on top is:

As the doctor later recalled:
"She was among the corpses up to sunset and then she heard the wild shouting of those who carried out the murder. She somehow or other managed to get out of the heaps of corpses, she got to the barbed wire entanglements – she managed to cross them and she found a common Polish peasant woman who bandaged her wounds, gave her flowers and said, “Run away from here, but carry flowers as if you were a common peasant, so that they shouldn’t recognise that you are a Jewess.”

"Somehow or other" indeed. Another 'holocaust' "miracle".

Now let's see if the hapless 'Holocaust Research Project' changes the links I've given.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

- Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

Right, there is after all a precedent for the Soviets claiming that a mass grave filled with their murdered victims was the dastardly work of the Nazis, ala The Katin Forest massacre.

And yes that bottom row of corpses in the "Ponary dead lying in the dirt 1943" pic does look weird.