Sites Where Excavations Are Physically Obstructed, Blocked

[Dresden]

Werd said:

"Hmmmm. How come no archaeologist had the brilliant idea to find the edges of the mass grave and dig a pit RIGHT BESIDE IT and slowly break away one of the walls of the new pit that is adjacent to the old pit? You know, slowly chip away until the tops of skulls start poking through. THEN we can count the layers"

You're cheating, Werd ..... you're not supposed to use logic and reason where Holocaustianity is concerned.

And don't you know by now that Archaeology, just like Chemistry, Thermodynamics, Biology, and Arithmetic is anti --- "semitic"?

To suggest using the scientific method is "hate speech", and to actually use the scientific method is "hate crime".

Let's just take the advice of Elie Wiesel, who said:

"Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination."

.....a the includes the "mass graves".

[Werd]

Well I guess when the holocaust is surrounded by mythology and holiness and treated like a religion, people do lose their reason. Thus the part of their brain responsible for creative intelligence and compromise also shuts down.

[Werd]

Werd said:

"Hmmmm. How come no archaeologist had the brilliant idea to find the edges of the mass grave and dig a pit RIGHT BESIDE IT and slowly break away one of the walls of the new pit that is adjacent to the old pit? You know, slowly chip away until the tops of skulls start poking through. THEN we can count the layers"

You're cheating, Werd ..... you're not supposed to use logic and reason where Holocaustianity is concerned.

Here is what Bob said to me about this.

You can be sure that it does not matter what you suggest, there always would be an excuse since they know their theory is false, that is why they do not want it, why they do not want to provide quantitative data, why they do not want excavate claimed mass graves, graves accepted to be not exhumed and corpses not burnt back then.

Nessie on another board (and he is on many) has tried another tactic. Basically deny my scenario to be physically possible.

Recap:

Find the edges of the mass grave and dig a pit RIGHT BESIDE IT and slowly break away one of the walls of the new pit that is adjacent to the old pit[...]slowly chip away until the tops of skulls start poking through[...]we can count the layers.

And then:

Have you consulted with any archaeologist to see if your proposal would work?

[Nessie style]Prove it can't be done. You haven't ruled it out.[/Nessie style]

On a more serious note, obviously it would work just fine to dig next to a mass grave once the length and width dimensions of the mass grave are known. Dig a pit right next to another pit. How hard is that? It has been done before.

Funny how when it comes to archaeologists trying to determine the dimensions of mass graves in places like Sobibor, they are always talking about how one big pit was probably two separate pits at one time and that the Nazis in their fiendish plan to bury the bodies quickly decided to smarten up, maximize their volume and just make a bigger pit instead of two separate pits with a little earth between them; since that Earth could be used to hold more corpse mass/volume. And yet now in this scenario when it comes to checking the claims of the holocaust, suddenly we pretend if we don't know that digging a pit right next to another pit and slowly removing the dirt in between is doable.

Nessie is playing dumb once again like he does in many other places.

So have no idea if your plan would work. It is an ad hoc passing as a reasonable request.

As I said, ad hoc not shown to be a definite way to count bodies

Funny how Nessie loves to believe that Jews dug pits with shovels alongside excavators in Treblinka, and yet here he acts like digging with shovels is impossible. He acts like one can't simply dig a pit next to another pit and then break away the earth that separates the two closes walls. Second of all, here is my scenario again.

How come no archaeologist had the brilliant idea to find the edges of the mass grave and dig a pit RIGHT BESIDE IT and slowly break away one of the walls of the new pit that is adjacent to the old pit? You know, slowly chip away until the tops of skulls start poking through? THEN we can count the layers.

What did I say?
layers.
One more time.
layers.
We can estimate how many per layer in this photo
http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2015/volume_7/number_3/imgs/desbois_fig2.png
then dig down besides it and slowly remove the dirt barrier between original mass grave and new adjacent pit. If for example when we got close to the edge of one pit deep down and saw the tops of skulls or bits of fingers or feet poking through, we can figure out if there is more than just one layer in those pits at Busk. Then we can keep Jewish law intact by not moving the corpses. Therefore, Nessie can shut the F up about revisionists being motivated by a desire to desecrate Jewish graves out of pure irrational hatred. The fact that I would suggest such a scenario that would leave the bodies in tact in accordance with Jewish law refutes Nessie's false accusation.

:roll: All I asked for was confirmation that technique would work, especially since no archaeologist has tried it. All it would show is the layer next to where the dig is. It will not show if the same layering is repeated throughout the whole grave. I want independent confirmation because if it produces a result you do not want, you will think of a reason to reject the result.

Nessie finally accepts my suggested technique about digging a pit next to the grave pit and slowly removing the dirt that separates the two until tops of skulls and feet and hands would begin to poke through would work.

All it would show is the layer next to where the dig is.

Hence, his previous pretension that it would not work is shown for what is truly was. Trolling.

All it would show is the layer next to where the dig is.

Or layerS.

Since my technique would also not conflict with Jewish law, Nessie has to move the goal posts and pretend I would not accept the results of my own suggested technique. Even if it was photographed or even documented with a video camera showing the pace of the work and the results of multiple layers, he insinuates I would still deny it. Even when I suggest a motive that respects Jewish law AND STILL would get an accurate body count, I'm still suspicious. He is trolling once again. He truly does operate in bad faith.

Nessie finally accepts my suggested technique about digging a pit next to the grave pit and slowly removing the dirt that separates the two until tops of skulls and feet and hands would begin to poke through would work.

No, I will accept it once it has been accepted as possible and likely to produce an accurate result by a qualified archaeologist.

All it would show is the layer next to where the dig is.

Hence, his previous pretension that it would not work is shown for what is truly was. Trolling.

All it would show is the layer next to where the dig is.

Or layerS.

If it turns out there are way more layers than you expect, you will say all it shows is one layering and that layering is not repeated over the entire site.

Since my technique would also not conflict with Jewish law, Nessie has to move the goal posts and pretend I would not accept the results of my own suggested technique. Even if it was photographed or even documented with a video camera showing the pace of the work and the results of multiple layers, he insinuates I would still deny it. Even when I suggest a motive that respects Jewish law AND STILL would get an accurate body count, I'm still suspicious. He is trolling once again. He truly does operate in bad faith.

Based on your rejection of other solid evidence which conflicts with your desired outcome, I am right to be suspicious.

See what I mean about trolling and operating in bad faith?

No, I will accept it once it has been accepted as possible

My scenario is not doable. It is physically impossible to dig a pit next to another pit. Despite the Nazis having allegedly done so at Busk.

Earth has been left between those pits to stop them collapsing into each other. How do you propose digging down the side and it not collapsing into the hole you have dug?

Is Nessie switching the goal posts and moving away from his insinuation that it is impossible to dig dirt up now that he has been reminded nazis did it and that Jews supposedly did it in Treblinka? Is he now moving the debate to a different plateau. Namely destruction of the graves? Said destruction which could only come about after actual digging occurred? Digging that he tried to imply was impossible?

Earth has been left between those pits to stop them collapsing into each other. How do you propose digging down the side and it not collapsing into the hole you have dug?

Um, that's the whole point. Of course the dimensions of the original grave will change once the earth barrier is removed. Documented the original dimensions before this happens. Use a video camera. Colls had several when she was in Treblinka. Are you really that bereft of imagination and creative intelligence and problem solving?
Dig a small pit just enough for a man to fit into. Make it adjacent to the mass grave in question. Then he can take a brush, a trowel and a couple of other tools and slowly remove the dirt until skulls and feet and whatever start poking through. That's just the first step to counting the layers.

What counts as a layer? What if way more layers are found than you are expecting? Why do you not want the opinion of an archaeologist on feasibility?

I get that, how do you ensure that archaeologist is safe from what he is digging into collapsing?

How about respecting gravity and starting to remove dirt from the top down and piling the dirt up on the main surface as seen in this photo?

And he does this top down method of dirt removal with the assistance of a ladder that is perpendicular to the main wall of the mass grave he is slowly removing dirt from.
You seem to think that all of a sudden when he is removing the dirt slowly to expose skulls and other skeleton parts beginning to poke through, suddenly all the skeletons and other dirt will move and fall in on him like when a closet door opens to a closet that has been packed too tightly. Get real. Those skeletons which have been solidified in place due to being in wax fat transformation before are not going anywhere.

How about accepting you should get expert opinion before you claim you have the answer?

I should also specify that this bit of dirt will obviously have to be removed for the top down method I just described.

Upon making the top surface of the grave LEVEL or PARALLEL with the top surface of the new adjacent pit, it will guarantee the safety of the archaeologist who wants to have either minimal or no dirt fall into the adjacent pit he is working in.

Simple.

And when working next to a mass grave and one wants to dig deep next to it, there are some precautions to take.

Soil strength: Determine the soil type to protect excavation walls from collapsing. This can be determined by doing things such as inspecting trenches and excavations following a rainfall, melting snow, thawing earth and overflows from nearby streams, storm drains and sewers. The soil type determines the strength and stability of the excavation walls. [Construction Reg. s. 226]

Wall stability: Strip the wall of a trench or excavation of any loose rock or other material that may slide, roll or fall on a worker. [Construction Reg. s. 232]

[...]

Work space: Maintain a clear work space of at least 450 millimetres (18 inches) between the wall of an excavation and any formwork, masonry or similar wall. [Construction Reg. s. 231]

Fall protection: Provide a barrier at least 1.1 metres (42 inches) high at the top if an excavation does not meet regulatory slope requirements and is more than 2.4 metres (eight feet) deep. [Construction Reg. s. 233(4)]

Protect yourself: Never enter a trench deeper than 1.2 metres (47 inches) unless the walls are sound, made of solid rock, properly sloped, shored or protected by a trench box. Never work alone in a trench.

Protective systems: Workers must be protected against trench or excavation cave-ins and other hazards using three basic methods:

Sloping which involves cutting back trench walls at an angle, inclined away from the excavation.
Shoring which helps support trench and excavation walls to prevent movement of soil, underground utilities, roadways and foundations. Timber and hydraulic systems are the most commonly used supports to shore up walls. Both types must be designed by a professional engineer.
Prefabricated support systems (for example, trench boxes and shields) which can prevent soil cave-ins.


https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/hs/sawo/pubs/fs_trenches.php

This is mostly about making sure that another pit you dig if it is next to another pit does not collapse. Well that is NOT the scenario I am proposing. Once we equalize the top surface areas in the way I describe, you will find we are simply expanding an already existing pit. Not trying to make another pit next to another one and hoping both will hold their forms without the Earth in between collapsing down.

[Atigun]

The cognitive dissonance caused by having so many of his holyhoax claims shot down is causing Nessie to lose his ability to think rationally. Just my opinion but it seems to fit his more recent pronouncements. Too loosely wrapped, too tightly wound.

[Lamprecht]

After failing to show us one single "huge mass grave" with a mere 0.1% of the alleged victims of Sobibor, despite multiple archaeological investigations, they are now covering all of the phantom mass graves with gravel:

Sobibor "Archaeological excavation" report of 2017 - no photographs of human remains, when will we see them?
viewtopic.php?t=12901#p96898

[Merlin300]

Another inconvenient site is that of Babi Yar, which was at the edge of Kiev, at the last trolley stop.
The history of the site during the War can be seen in a series of aerial photographs taken by the Luftwaffe.
This photographs were tracked down by Dr. Mirko Dragan. He also visited the site.
There were no signs of mass burials, or mass cremations in any aerial photographs. However, after the Soviets occupied the area December 1943
they set up a POW camp at the top of the ravine. Over the course of 3 flyover the number of graves increases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar# ... ,_1943.jpg

The whole Babi Yar tale has been full of embarrassing contradictions.
The propaganda started almost immediately with the tales circulating that on 29–30 September 1941, the Germans killed 33,771 at the site.
In 1946, Soviet prosecutor L. N. Smirnov at the Nuremberg trials claimed there were approximately 100,000 corpses lying in Babi Yar,
With a death count of 250,000.

Believer websites complain that
After the war, specifically Jewish commemoration efforts encountered serious difficulty because of the Soviet Union's policies
Of course.
Anyway, the area seems to have been covered by a layer of asphalt.