The JEWISH REVISIONISTS thread

[Godfred]

Many of the anti-zionist jews, be they from Neturei Karta or other organisations, express revisionist views on what happened in the holocaust. Many of them hold on to some parts of the standard storyline, but question other parts of it.

Like Rabbi Beck, who believes zionists deliberately sacrificed jews in the camps in Germany for political gains.

...The unfortunate truth is that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goals. They pursue the same tactic to this day: they cause the blood of Jews and non-Jews to be spilled, and they benefit politically...

http://nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/20140127Beck.cfm

[Dresden]

Many of the anti-zionist jews, be they from Neturei Karta or other organisations, express revisionist views on what happened in the holocaust. Many of them hold on to some parts of the standard storyline, but question other parts of it.

Like Rabbi Beck, who believes zionists deliberately sacrificed jews in the camps in Germany for political gains.

...The unfortunate truth is that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goals. They pursue the same tactic to this day: they cause the blood of Jews and non-Jews to be spilled, and they benefit politically...

http://nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/20140127Beck.cfm

How is this in any way "revisionism"?

Rabbi Beck doesn't deny the "Hitler order", nor the "six million", nor the "gas chambers".

He is not a Holocaust Revisionist in any way whatsoever.

Deborah Lipstadt is more of a Revisionist than Rabbi Beck; she denies the "soap", the "lampshades", and the "five million other-caust".

Raul Hilberg denied the six million; he said it was 5.1 million.....but that doesn't make him a Revisionist.

I think only true Jewish Holocaust Revisionists should be included in this thread.

I say that for at least two reasons:

1. It is very misleading to include any Jew that happens to disagree on some fine points of the "holocaust".

2. It will show that the amount of Jewish true Holocaust Revisionists in the last seventy years are very few in number.....not anywhere near one in a million.

Maybe someone should start another thread entitled "Jewish pseudo-Revisionists", or "Jewish quasi-Revisionists".

[borjastick]

Maybe someone should start another thread entitled "Jewish pseudo-Revisionists", or "Jewish quasi-Revisionists".

said SteveF

I agree Steve. These jews, the somewhat anti zionists ones I mean, are sometimes called Righteous Jews but they are very rarely full on revisionists.

[Godfred]

Many of the anti-zionist jews, be they from Neturei Karta or other organisations, express revisionist views on what happened in the holocaust. Many of them hold on to some parts of the standard storyline, but question other parts of it.

Like Rabbi Beck, who believes zionists deliberately sacrificed jews in the camps in Germany for political gains.

...The unfortunate truth is that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goals. They pursue the same tactic to this day: they cause the blood of Jews and non-Jews to be spilled, and they benefit politically...

http://nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/20140127Beck.cfm

How is this in any way "revisionism"?

Rabbi Beck doesn't deny the "Hitler order", nor the "six million", nor the "gas chambers".

He is not a Holocaust Revisionist in any way whatsoever.

Deborah Lipstadt is more of a Revisionist than Rabbi Beck; she denies the "soap", the "lampshades", and the "five million other-caust".

Raul Hilberg denied the six million; he said it was 5.1 million.....but that doesn't make him a Revisionist.


I think only true Jewish Holocaust Revisionists should be included in this thread.

I say that for at least two reasons:

1. It is very misleading to include any Jew that happens to disagree on some fine points of the "holocaust".

2. It will show that the amount of Jewish true Holocaust Revisionists in the last seventy years are very few in number.....not anywhere near one in a million.

......

What is a TRUE holocaust revisionist™, what is "kosher" enough to be included in the club, in your view ?

I consider anyone who reviews and revises aspects of the standard storyline of the "holocaust" a (holocaust) revisionist. All historians should embrace revisionism, as historical research in itself is revisionist.

Of course some revisionists are more holistic than others. People who review&revise all aspects and tell the whole truth, like Rudolf and Zundel (in my view), are more useful (for the revisionist movement) than those who only revise the zionist role or some aspects of the gas chamber storyline.

Yet, few revisionists satisfy everyone. There's always something that is not agreed on, and someone thinks some revisionist is pandering to the holocaust lobby/etc. As has been the case with David Irving, Mark Weber and now even David Cole.

Some of these anti-zionist jews participated in the revisionist conference organized by Ahmadinejad some years back, that's not revisionist enough for you ?

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/speeche ... speech.cfm

I can't see that the OP would have set any strict guidelines as to who can be mentioned in the thread, and I have yet to see any strict definition of what a holocaut revisionist is, so I see no reason why "partial" revisionists (are there any other?) could not be discussed in the thread.

[Dresden]

Thank you for your reply, Godfred, but you didn't answer my question; here it is again:

Godfred wrote:

"Like Rabbi Beck, who believes zionists deliberately sacrificed jews in the camps in Germany for political gains.

"...The unfortunate truth is that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goals. They pursue the same tactic to this day: they cause the blood of Jews and non-Jews to be spilled, and they benefit politically..."

http://nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/20140127Beck.cfm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is this in any way "revisionism"?

Rabbi Beck has a certain idea about the cause of the "holocaust", not the fact of it.

One person believes the Earth is round because God made it round; another person believes the Earth is round due to accretion and gravity; that doesn't make either one of them a Flat Earther.

How is Rabbi Beck, by any stretch of the imagination, a Holocaust Revisionist?

What do you think Rabbi Beck would say to me, or do to me, if I were to ask him to his face if he was a Holocaust Revisionist?

I don't think he'd very happy

[Godfred]

Thank you for your reply, Godfred, but you didn't answer my question; here it is again:

Godfred wrote:

"Like Rabbi Beck, who believes zionists deliberately sacrificed jews in the camps in Germany for political gains.

"...The unfortunate truth is that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goals. They pursue the same tactic to this day: they cause the blood of Jews and non-Jews to be spilled, and they benefit politically..."

http://nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/20140127Beck.cfm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is this in any way "revisionism"?

Rabbi Beck has a certain idea about the cause of the "holocaust", not the fact of it.

One person believes the Earth is round because God made it round; another person believes the Earth is round due to accretion and gravity; that doesn't make either one of them a Flat Earther.

How is Rabbi Beck, by any stretch of the imagination, a Holocaust Revisionist?

What do you think Rabbi Beck would say to me, or do to me, if I were to ask him to his face if he was a Holocaust Revisionist?

I don't think he'd very happy

I answered your question, but you don't seem to understand my thinking. I'll repeat it: I consider anyone who revises the exterminationist holocaust storyline a revisionist. There is NO STRICT FORMAL DEFINITION of what a holocaust revisionist™ is. I'll review and revise my position if someone presents one. There is a formal definition for the word "revise", though.

I don't really care if Rabbi Beck classifies himself as a holocaust revisionist™ , I classify his views as revisionist. Anyone who reviews and rewrites history is a revisionist, whether they like the term or not.

Quoting Zulu, earlier in the thread:

It could be interesting to add in that thread Jewish scholars who, despite being not classified as revisionists or "deniers", have written statements which are clearly on a revisionist line.

[Godfred]

Does Steve F think David Irving and David Cole should be removed from the thread, as they are not revisionist enough ? One is selling the holocaust by bullets and the other one is apparently now selling some camps as "killing centers" for jews.

Both are revisionist, although they are echoing parts of the exterminationist storyline.

edit. Irving is not jewish or mentioned in the thread, but maybe you get my point

[Kingfisher]

Gotfred

You've made your point clearly and I agree with it. If Steve wants to consider some of these people insufficiently revisionist for his taste that's up to him. I don't see why that should stop the rest of us discussing them.
[edit for typo]

[Breker]

I believe the problem is basic inconsistency. Typically someone like an Irving or Cole will say there were no gassings at Auschwitz because of XYZ, yet they will allege that there were gassings at another site in spite of the continued presence of XYZ. One can then logically conclude that there are other factors which are influencing their stated positions.
B.

[Godfred]

Gotfred

You've made your point clearly and I agree with it. If Steve wants to consider some of these people insufficiently revisionist for his taste that'd up to him. I don't see why that should stop the rest of us discussing them.

Glad to see someone agreeing.

I will anyway keep posting revisionists, who only revise parts of the exterminationist holocaust storyline, in this thread. Those who wish, can report the posts and maybe someone will come up with a stricter interpretation of what a revisionist is and who can&can't be included in the thread.

This is basically the definition I go by:

historical revisionism is the reinterpretation of orthodox views on evidence, motivations, and decision-making processes surrounding a historical event.....The unending quest of historians for understanding the past—that is, "revisionism"—is what makes history vital and meaningful.

(I ignore the rhetoric on denialism, that's just wordplay)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism

[Moderator]

Godfred said:

I will anyway keep posting revisionists, who only revise parts of the exterminationist holocaust storyline, in this thread. Those who wish, can report the posts and maybe someone will come up with a stricter interpretation of what a revisionist is and who can & can't be included in the thread.

"Report the posts"? To who and for what?
You can post info. about anyone you like who is a Jewish "holocaust" Revisionist, the subject of this thread, to any degree in which they are a Revisionist.
Don't get upset because of Steve F.'s questioning. After all, we do debate here. And through debate we gain a better understanding of our subject.
Thanks, Godfred. We welcome your on-topic views & opinions.
M1

[Werd]

http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=943

Jewish Scholar Refutes The Holocaust
A Letter To Brother Nathanael Kapner June 18, 2014

The following is a Letter I received from a Jewish scholar regarding his reasoned doubts of the Holocaust as presented by Jewry. With his permission to publish the Letter along with his full name, herein is presented a convincing refutation of the Holocaust Hoax.
+Brother Nathanael Kapner

“DEAR BROTHER NATHANAEL… My name is Robert Litoff. I have been following your site for many years. You may publish this Letter and my name.

I was born in New Haven, Connecticut in 1945 of two Jewish parents but am now a non-practicing Jew. As far as I can trace, all my ancestors are Jews.

I graduated Phi Beta Kappa in psychology from the University of Connecticut.

The claim that 6 million Jews died during World War II is wrong.

During the war period, before and shortly afterward, 5 million Jews went to Israel, and the Jewish population of North America increased from 4 million to 6 million.

Jews also went to Brazil, Argentina, Australia and other nations. This accounts for the decrease of 6 million Jews in Europe.

The world Jewish population was 15 million circa 1929 but it reached an estimated high of 18 million in 1989, an increase of 16%, which would have been impossible if 6 million Jews died in World War II.

The rabbi of my synagogue was Rabbi Andrew Klein who was a Hungarian Jew. He was interned in Auschwitz during World War II. His wife and 2 sons, Theodore and Lester, were interned in Bergen-Belsen.

One of the stories you hear about the nazis is that they killed all the Jews who could not work. But, Theodore and Lester were both children who could not work when they were at Bergen-Belsen but they were not killed.

Soon after the end of the war, there were a few different stories of how the nazis committed mass murder. One was that the victims were put in water and an electric current was sent through the water electrocuting the victims.

Another was that the victims were thrown in great fiery pits. Yet another was that the victims were driven in trucks which had their exhaust fumes channeled into the compartment in which the victims were placed, thereby killing them.

Finally, there is the story about the victims ‘taking showers’ in gas chambers which is the one claimed today. I take issue with this claim for the following reasons.

ZYKLON-B WAS INVENTED in America, not Germany. It was first used in Texas to disinfect the clothing of Mexicans crossing the border.

In the German work camps, Zyklon-B was used to disinfect the clothing of the internees to stem the tide of typhus.

Perhaps you have heard the story that the internees were led into a room in which they were told that they would be given showers and then they were gassed to death.

In reality, the doors of a real gas chamber would have to be airtight and look something like an airplane door. Otherwise, the gas would seep out and kill those operating the gas chamber.

In employing a gas chamber for an execution of one person, (as it was once done in America), a method used was to have potassium nuggets dropped into sulfuric acid by a lever. This would result in the production of hydrogen cyanide which would kill the person being executed.

Before the doors of the gas chamber could be opened—post-execution—another gas, anhydrous ammonia, must be injected into the chamber to react with the poisonous gas to make it a less lethal resulting gas.

Even so, anhydrous ammonia being poisonous, it would react with the gas used and would have to be scrubbed away. All of this would have been a long, dangerous, inefficient and toilsome task for the nazis to destroy ‘millions’ using gas chambers.

If Hitler wanted to kill as many Jews as he could, he would have had them shot by machine guns and automatic rifles. This would have been the least expensive and quickest way to commit mass murder. And, tragically, there were many mass murders in World War II by soldiers using machine guns and automatic rifles.

But, I am only stating that the claim that Hitler committed a genocidal war against Jews is false. I am not defending Hitler. He started a war which caused the deaths of millions.

I FIRST READ Elie Wiesel’s “Night” when in it was an earlier publication.

In this early edition, Wiesel does not mention any gas chambers but states that mass murder was committed by throwing Jews of all ages into great fiery pits.

When I ask various Jews why did Wiesel not mention gas chambers if they existed, and, if great fiery pits were used to kill people, then why are people not talking about the great fiery pits now like people are always talking about the gas chambers?

The usual response is that the victims were killed by both methods and that Wiesel’s failure to mention gas chambers is not proof that the gas chambers for killing people did not exist. This answer is not convincing since Wiesel purports to be giving an eyewitness account.

Weasel (misspelling intentional…for the man is a deceiver and a sneak) wrote about the internees taking showers, being shaved of all body hair, and being covered with disinfectant which would be consistent with a program to prevent typhus and other diseases from killing the internees and not consistent with a program which wanted the internees to die.

In the earlier edition of “Night,” Wiesel wrote that he had surgery on one of his feet at a “well equipped hospital” in Auschwitz before taken to other camps. In the newer editions of “Night” this has been changed to an “infirmary.”

Yet, in both editions, he states that he was given two weeks off from work after his surgery which is inconsistent with the claim that all internees who could not work were killed.

Weasel wrote that while he was recuperating the Russians were approaching Auschwitz and the Germans knew that they could not hold out in Auschwitz any longer.

So, they offered all their internees who were in the hospital that they could decide whether to wait for the Russian soldiers to come or leave with the Germans. Wiesel decided to leave with the Germans who were supposedly committing genocide against the Jews instead of waiting for liberation by the Russians.

Perhaps, you have seen pictures of piles of dead and walking skeletons of a liberated concentration camp.

But, by the end of the war, all Germans were having difficulty feeding themselves.

Also, the American and British air forces were bombing all the railroad tracks making it impossible to bring sufficient quantities of food into the camps. So, America and Britain share most of the blame for the starvation in the camps at the end of the war.

Jews need to keep bringing up the Holocaust so they can extort billions of dollars from America and its most advanced weapons systems for their Zionist program in Israel.

Jews own and control America’s mainline media, so that they can control most everything Americans hear and see.

While Americans argue about what to do about medical care and how much it will cost, Israel has a much more generous medical care program for its citizens and does not need to worry about the costs because it’s paid for by tax-paying American citizens in the aid we give to Israel.

The first revisonists were Jews who said things like, "Hey this never happened. I was there." They were swept under the rug. Joseph Ginsburg or Joseph Burg is another Jewish revisionist already quoted at length here. Now here is an interesting user posted comment.

Dear Real Jew News Family -

Indeed, the Holocaust tale is a huge HOAX.

When I was growing up in the 1950’s the Encyclopedia Britannica published an Article by Jacob Markus, a Jewish historian, in their World War II entry.

Markus called the camps “work camps” NOT “concentration camps. He ALSO stated that “thousands perished” and NOT the ridiculous figure of “6 million.”

But, the edition was pulled off the market in the 60’s when the Jews started HYPING the HOAX.

See my Video: “The Holocaust Denial Debate” @ http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=663

If true, this is more damning information. Seems like a few jews tried to tell the truth and they were ignored.

[Breker]

Werd:
An excellent last post. Aside from Litoff erroneously stating that Hitler started the war, it's a remarkable letter. Thank you.
B.

[Werd]

It seems Robert Litoff has run for government before as a Republican.

http://www.bipac.net/php.asp?g=cintas&p ... ictid=6116

Charlie Gonzalez (D)
[email protected]
Born on 05/05/1945 in San Antonio, TX; Catholic; Earned JD, Saint Mary's University School of Law, 1972; Earned BS, Government, University of Texas - Austin, 1969; Attorney, Private Law Practice, 1972-1982, 1987-1988, 1997-1998; Attorney/Mediator, Crofts, Callaway, and Wallace, 1997-1998; District Court Judge, 57th Texas Judicial District Court, 1989-1997; Attorney, Gasqual and Pozza, 1987-1988; County Court Judge, Bexar County Court at Law #2, 1983-1987; Attorney, Law Offices of Charles A. Gonzalez, 1972-1982; Technical Sergeant, Air National Guard, 1969-1975; 5th Grade Teacher, Kindred Elementary, South San Antonio Independent School District, 1969-1971; Judge, San Antonio Municipal Court; Representative, United States House of Representatives, 1999-present.

http://www.charliegonzalez.com/
Charles Gonzalez Congressional Campaign
PO Box 12612
San Antonio,TX 78212
(210) 886-9229

Robert Litoff (R)
[email protected]
Born on 06/19/1945 in New Haven, CT; Jewish; Earned BA, University of Connecticut, 1969; Accountant; Buyer; Social Worker.

Robert Litoff for Congress
7026 Forest Crest North
San Antonio,TX 78240
210-841-1051

http://votesmart.org/candidate/biograph ... ert-litoff

Full Name: Robert 'Bob' Stanley Litoff
Gender: Male
Family: Single; 2 Children: Dorothy, Naomi
Birth Date: 06/19/1945
Birth Place: New Haven, CT
Home City: Leon Valley, TX
Religion: Jewish


Education

BA, University of Connecticut, 1969

Political Experience

Candidate, United States House of Representatives, District 20, 2008

Caucuses/Non-Legislative Committees

No caucus information on file.

Professional Experience

Accountant
Buyer
Social Worker

Organizations

Member, American Family Association

In a topic here,
http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-1344667.htm
the article was posted and there was a discussion. I find this comment relevant because it remidned me of someone who also attacked the holocaust narrative who was jewish. Myron Fagan, an anti British, Illuminati theorist.

longbobby 6/19/2014 2:17:53 PM Whoopsie! Jewish Scholar Refutes The Holocaust?

Most people that believe the Holocaust myth, are just repeating what they were told in school or by Hollywood movies.

Most people that know the official Holocaust story is a lie have done intensive research and have gone through mountains of discrediting evidence.

I admire Mr. Liftoff for going on the record, his bravery may encourage others.

Myron Fagin, a Jewish American playright, wrote an article called the Illuminati. You can Google it.

Fagin states in his article that 500,000 Jews died in the Holocaust not 6 million. They died from malnutrition and typhus, which was the reason for the gas chambers, to disinfect the people from typhus. It is very worthwhile article to read. He reveals other info besides the Holohoax. It is a must read.

Myron Fagan. I read him years ago. How could I forget such a man?

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/illuminati.htm

The Illuminati and The Council on Foreign Relations
_____________________________________________________________________

"And at this point let me stress a prime feature of the Illuminati plans. When and if their blueprint for world control, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, is discovered and exposed, they would wipe all the Jews off the face of the earth in order to divert suspicions from themselves. If you think this is far fetched, bear in mind that they permitted Hitler, a liberal socialist himself, who was financed by corrupt Kennedy, the Warburgs, and the Rothschilds, to incinerate 600,000 Jews. (There was no incineration and according to "Jewish" sources there were not so many Jews in the whole of Germany at the start of the War)
______________________________________________________________________

"The conspirators suddenly remembered how the Schiff-Rothschild gang had engineered the pogroms in Russia which slaughtered many, many thousands of Jews and created a world-wide hatred for Russia and they decided to use that same unconscionable trick to inflame the new Hitler led German people into a murderous-hatred of the Jews. (On the contrary it was Jews who massacred 66 million Orthodox Christians then held meetings in England and America that raised millions for five to six million supposedly Jewish victims). Now it is true that the German people never had any particular affection for the Jews; but neither did they have an ingrained hatred for them. Such a hatred would have to be manufactured so Hitler was to create it. This idea more than appealed to Hitler. He saw in it the grisly gimmick to make him the "God-man" of the German people.

"Thus craftily inspired and coached by his financial-advisers, the Warburgs, the Rothschilds, and all the Illuminati masterminds; he blamed the Jews for the hated "Versailles Treaty" and for the financial ruination that followed the war. The rest is history. We know all about the Hitler concentration-camps and the incineration of hundred of thousands of Jews. (This is wartime propaganda and absurd ignorance. There were not "thousands of Jews" to incinerate, the tiny crematoria were the size of single toilet cubicles, and one does not run factories by murdering one's employees). NOT the 6,000,000 NOR even the 600,000 claimed by the conspirators; but it was enough. And here let me reiterate how little the internationalist bankers, the Rothschilds, Schiffs, Lehmans, Warburgs, Baruchs, cared about their racial brethren who were the victims of their nefarious schemes. In their eyes; the slaughter of the several hundred thousand innocent Jews by Hitler didn't bother them at all. They considered it a necessary sacrifice to further their Illuminati one-world plot just as the slaughter of the many millions in the wars that followed was a similar necessary sacrifice. And here is another grisly detail about those concentration-camps. Many of the Hitler soldier-executioners in those camps had previously been sent to Russia to acquire their arts of torture and brutalization so as to emphasize the horrors of the atrocities. (To learn from the "Jews")?

Despite Fagan implying Hitler at the very least played into the Rothschild banking dialectic, which obviously does not fly on here with most (although it does with me to some extent as I love Greg Hallett's work and do believe in the Illuminati), Fagan DOES NOT believe in the six million number or even six hundred thousand. I have found nothing about Fagan's views on gas chambers, but I personally suspect he didn't believe that either. He wouldn't have been able to if he was to be consistent with his views that not even six hundred thousand Jews perished.

[atomMan]

from Metapedia...

"list of Jewish dissidents, individuals who have taken an untraditional position against communism, Zionism and Jewish supremacy"

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_dissidents

i'm putting together a list here that was sourced mostly from this topic...

http://12bytes.org/articles/history/res ... -resources

i PM'd @Werd and asked if he thinks it might be a good idea to edit the OP to include such a list