Holocaust Death Toll?

[Owlett]

I am well versed with most of the revisionist material having read most of the HH handbooks and several supporting key volumes as well in addition to the greater number of available articles. I monitor this site from time to time to review any relevant discussions but do not personally contribute. I created this account simply because I was stunned that the very topic I had been trying to review again- total death tolls, has recently been made into a thread- the responses here seem to fall short of the issue.

The thread creator seemed to offer only the lie-figures and that is what posters seemed to have addressed but if we can ignore that stuff for a little while and let's re-focus on reality death tolls the subject should now be renewed. Here is where I am at with my research:

Previously I had read an article a couple years ago at most which was/is in the CODOH library somewhere but for the life of me cannot find it again as I have just recently been looking for it- giving about 4 revisionist scholars estimates of the true death tolls. Graf weighed in I am quite sure, I think so did Rudolf and one of the other 4 was definitely Dalton which is the only one I can recall and have verification of in his book "debating the holocaust".

In his now "previous" edition of this book which used to be available here free in PDF and a copy can be still had at archive.org -> Dalton espoused 570,000 total jewish deaths under "national socialist or their allies control" (i.e. the German sphere of influence). Of this he ascribes 140,000 to the Einsatzgruppen leaving 430,000 to have perished in the camps, in transit and in the cities and countryside.

Of the other few scholars in this document I reviewed I recall the highest estimate of German-sphere jewish deaths was something to the tune of 750,000 from memory as an aside. (if anyone here, perhaps Hanover, can recall this document for the board and myself that would be nice)..

So taking Dalton's figure here as the only one I can work with from here out- there is a problem...

His figures for all the 6 falsely alleged "death camps" are pretty much locked and sound. The revisionists figures have essentially been proven as has the fact they were never death camps and never any gas chambers. On this topic the differences between revisionist estimates are mute anyway compared to their official-lie counterparts (the exception being Madjenek which has almost fully collapsed to the revisionist position now, ejected by the holocaust_church apparently.

The problem is of course the Einsatzgruppen. Dalton's former book that people can read at the moment gave 140,000 as a crude estimate but that was before Mattogno's Einsatzgruppen book came out.

Although Mattogno exposes certain silly documents (like "Jaeger report" etc) he comments critically on the EM reports but generally treats them as true. Although he refutes some figures in them such as for Babi Yar (3,000 instead of 30,000)- he refrains from giving any totals but a reader may generally get the impression that if the 730,000 documentary killings were in fact embellished by the Einsatzgruppen- they were not done so TOO much. Perhaps no more than by the 40% Mattogno claims are unverifiable. If we allow a deduction of this 40% to cover both Allied/Soviet/Jewish frauds as well as Nazi exaggerations- which we should as we have little other recourse other than suppositions of much greater forgery provided by Porter and Butz (Porter's stuff might be quite convincing but it's still mostly supposition)-> if we allow for this then it means that the total death toll espoused by Dalton, and in fact all of the revisionists in that article I read- is probably way too low!.

The German-side could have been responsible for now approximately 900,000 deaths (taking off 40%) or even 1.2 million if we take all the EM documentation at face value (minus obvious frauds).

It remains true of course that there was no extermination orders issued to the Einsatzgruppen and that the jew's were never murdered for reasons of genocide- that's given, but they were here certainly "executed" nevertheless, rather than dying of disease and other allied-causes as in the camps.

We know that the total number of jewish deaths during ww2 was between 1 to.15 million (Sanning) and those that did not perish under the German sphere of influence did so under the Soviet one. Revisionist historiography has attributed equal or more jewish deaths to the Soviets but in light of Mattogno's study, it certainly seems that more deaths occurred under German control than did so under Soviet control.

Returning to Dalton's newest edition of "Debating the Holocaust"- which is not yet available to read as PDF here or anywhere- I wonder if the short Einsatzgruppen section was updated and the death toll increased as a result of Mattgono's work (?)

I hope this post might serve to spin the discussion from fake death-tolls to real ones using real information. Kind regards.

[slob]

https://i.imgur.com/l3907zt.jpeg

[Lamprecht]

Previously I had read an article a couple years ago at most which was/is in the CODOH library somewhere but for the life of me cannot find it again as I have just recently been looking for it- giving about 4 revisionist scholars estimates of the true death tolls. Graf weighed in I am quite sure, I think so did Rudolf and one of the other 4 was definitely Dalton which is the only one I can recall and have verification of in his book "debating the holocaust".

In his now "previous" edition of this book which used to be available here free in PDF and a copy can be still had at archive.org -> Dalton espoused 570,000 total jewish deaths under "national socialist or their allies control" (i.e. the German sphere of influence). Of this he ascribes 140,000 to the Einsatzgruppen leaving 430,000 to have perished in the camps, in transit and in the cities and countryside.

Of the other few scholars in this document I reviewed I recall the highest estimate of German-sphere jewish deaths was something to the tune of 750,000 from memory as an aside. (if anyone here, perhaps Hanover, can recall this document for the board and myself that would be nice).

Maybe what you're looking for is one of these articles:

Holocaust Victims: A Statistical Analysis
https://codoh.com/library/document/holo ... alysis/en/

Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during the World War II
https://web.archive.org/web/20160804205 ... losses.php

From the 2nd link:
"As I mentioned earlier, the number of Jews who died in National Concentration camps cannot have been much higher than 300,000. Even if we assume that several hundreds of thousands of Jews transferred into the Eastern territories succumbed to the harsh conditions prevailing there, and that the Germans shot several hundreds of thousands of Jews on the Eastern front — both assumptions are rather improbable -, the total amount of Jewish victims can not have exceeded one million, so that the result of Sanning's and Nordling's investigation is roughly confirmed." (Graf)

[Owlett]

Previously I had read an article a couple years ago at most which was/is in the CODOH library somewhere but for the life of me cannot find it again as I have just recently been looking for it- giving about 4 revisionist scholars estimates of the true death tolls. Graf weighed in I am quite sure, I think so did Rudolf and one of the other 4 was definitely Dalton which is the only one I can recall and have verification of in his book "debating the holocaust".

In his now "previous" edition of this book which used to be available here free in PDF and a copy can be still had at archive.org -> Dalton espoused 570,000 total jewish deaths under "national socialist or their allies control" (i.e. the German sphere of influence). Of this he ascribes 140,000 to the Einsatzgruppen leaving 430,000 to have perished in the camps, in transit and in the cities and countryside.

Of the other few scholars in this document I reviewed I recall the highest estimate of German-sphere jewish deaths was something to the tune of 750,000 from memory as an aside. (if anyone here, perhaps Hanover, can recall this document for the board and myself that would be nice).

Maybe what you're looking for is one of these articles:

Holocaust Victims: A Statistical Analysis
https://codoh.com/library/document/holo ... alysis/en/

Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during the World War II
https://web.archive.org/web/20160804205 ... losses.php

From the 2nd link:
"As I mentioned earlier, the number of Jews who died in National Concentration camps cannot have been much higher than 300,000. Even if we assume that several hundreds of thousands of Jews transferred into the Eastern territories succumbed to the harsh conditions prevailing there, and that the Germans shot several hundreds of thousands of Jews on the Eastern front — both assumptions are rather improbable -, the total amount of Jewish victims can not have exceeded one million, so that the result of Sanning's and Nordling's investigation is roughly confirmed." (Graf)

Hello and thanks for continuing this topic Lamprecht

No the paper I was alluding to was one which summarized 4 different revisionists estimates on the death tolls, which I believe included Graf and Rudolf which you have provided in addition to Dalton which I did (the 4th person eludes my memory). I could not find this paper anymore and forgot it's name.

The first you linked was Rudolf's well known article from Dissecting juxtaposing Benz et al to Sanning and exposing the former as a fraud. The second I thank you for as it's Graf's paper on the topic.

You provided Graf's estimate of "less than 300,000 dying in the camps". I would allege that this figure is demonstrably too low using only revisionist material and original sources. Compare with Rudolf's paper you linked- he gives a table where it shows 290,000 deaths in the concentration camps which would agree with Graf on the matter. However this table is titled "Documentary" deaths. It does not document unregistered deaths from throughout the war (i.e. those in transit) or those occurring right at the end of the war through the mass disease etc which went undocumented.

We can see this by looking at a few of them- Bergen-Belsen where most dead bodies were found by far, usually attributed some 30k or so- only claimed under 7k here, much less than Buchenwald and Dachau which we know is not true. Auschwitz a figure of 60k is given which we know is higher, Dalton gives it as 140,000 as well as many others for reasons stated above already. Madjanek we know had 42,000 approx deaths from Mattogno and Graf's own work but this table offers only 8k. The "other camps" section is covering a massive amount of camps, especially if one includes the occupied Eastern territories camps which are scarcely mentioned. Or even if not aside from small subcamps we can see the 4 falsely alleged "death camps" Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor are not listed for which even revisionist estimates are themselves higher for each one than the total 4k for "other camps".

This effectively demonstrates that Graf's figure of "less than 300,000 in the camps dying" he offered here is demonstrably false. I believe elsewhere Rudolf has written a higher figure himself (as he doesn't seem to offer one here and this table is embedded without much comment anyway- which is widely acknowledged to obviously be incomplete), and Dalton certainly does. Also noteworthy is that Graf's paper left out those "in transit" or in cities and countryside (many of which may have been eliminated by the allied air raids as an aside).

Moving onto Sanning's principal work- Sanning gave a ballpark figure of 1 to 1.5 million, sometimes a median figure of 1.25 million is given. You have taken the lower end of this 1M which is fine but I try to take the higher end in matters rather than assume figures are much lower from the get go without good cause. This is important because as we shall see, if it turns out significantly more Jew's did in fact die under Axis influence, then a lower total figure leaves fewer attributed to the Soviets.

And so we return to the Einsatzgruppen question and Dalton's figures.

Let's adjust Rudolf's little graph first with just the adjustments I pointed out above.
296,000 - the 60,000 for Auschwitz +140,000 replacing it
- the 6,000 for Bergen Belsen +30,000 replacing it
- the 9,000 for Madjanek +42,000 replacing it
From Dalton - Debating the Holocaust 2nd edition page 257 we use the figures to adjust the following..
+ 2,000 for Chelmno
+ 40,000 for Belzec
+ 10,000 for Sobibor
+ 25,000 for Treblinka
And finally we will then add the "other camps" total in addition as it's such a low figure for every other camp even without the Reinhardt ones involved.
+5,000.

Punching in the numbers we get approximately 515,000 Jewish deaths in the camps including those in transit, unregistered etc as a crude ballpark which is some 85k higher than even Dalton's figure and this one didn't account for Jew's under Axis control in the cities and countryside either!

So we are dealing with a figure that should be claimed by revisionists responsibly imo to be "less than 600k" excluding Operation Barbarossa. Already this is not "insignificant" but all this is nothing because simply tacking on Dalton's 140k to this new figure still gives "only" 515k+140k=655k deaths, a figure well in form with Sanning and the thesis of many Jewish deaths under Soviet control.

But returning to Mattogno's "Einsatzgruppen" work- we can see if we need to deduct this 140,000 figure of Dalton's which he offered as merely "an estimate in the absence of any better evidence" in his 2nd edition prior to Mattogno's work being available and add the 730k documented deaths of the EM reports (=1.245 million (the lot of them or 250,000 short of the lot of them under the Soviet's) or even 40% of them (=953,000, this is nearly all of them using your 1 million lower Sanning limit or leaving just over half a million to the Soviet sphere given the 1.5 million upper limit and 300,000 to the Soviet sphere using the 1.25 million median Sanning figure)...

As you can see the question of the camps is important and as can be seen great care should be taken in this regard but by far most important is the contribution tot he death toll of the Einsatzgruppen.

A final note: Although it's true that there never was any extermination orders and there clearly was no intentional genocide on the Eastern front of Jew's (or any other race)- the Jewish community should they ever come to accept revisionist findings if they indeed show a much higher figure of Jew's shot in the war against the perceived "Jewish Bolshevism", partisans etc then they may still come to view this as a "functional holocaust". A million Jews for arguments sake is less than 6 million but it's still much higher than all American war dead x3 for example. And if it can be shown that half of these were in fact executed, they might not care too much else. It will take a particularly rational and strong willed Jewish person to be able to set aside prejudices and face the facts about the matters beyond the figures.

[Lamprecht]

You provided Graf's estimate of "less than 300,000 dying in the camps". I would allege that this figure is demonstrably too low using only revisionist material and original sources. Compare with Rudolf's paper you linked- he gives a table where it shows 290,000 deaths in the concentration camps which would agree with Graf on the matter.

Owlett -- I believe that you are mixing up estimates of total deaths with estimates of Jewish deaths.
Rudolf makes it clear that the ~300,000 figure he gives for deaths in the camps include both Jews and non-Jews. From the article I linked:

"A summary from January 1, 1993 documents 296,081 deaths. The distribution of these deaths among the individual camps is shown in the accompanying table. Jews probably constitute about half of the total."

Let's adjust Rudolf's little graph first with just the adjustments I pointed out above.
296,000 - the 60,000 for Auschwitz +140,000 replacing it
- the 6,000 for Bergen Belsen +30,000 replacing it
- the 9,000 for Madjanek +42,000 replacing it
From Dalton - Debating the Holocaust 2nd edition page 257 we use the figures to adjust the following..
+ 2,000 for Chelmno
+ 40,000 for Belzec
+ 10,000 for Sobibor
+ 25,000 for Treblinka
And finally we will then add the "other camps" total in addition as it's such a low figure for every other camp even without the Reinhardt ones involved.
+5,000.

Punching in the numbers we get approximately 515,000 Jewish deaths in the camps including those in transit, unregistered etc as a crude ballpark which is some 85k higher than even Dalton's figure and this one didn't account for Jew's under Axis control in the cities and countryside either!

Dalton's 140,000 estimate also includes non-Jews:

"Faurisson (2005: 64, 114) has suggested a number of 150,000 deaths. Mattogno (cited in Rudolf 2011: 423) and Graf (2003: 298) argue that in fact the documented number of official deaths is correct: 136,000. Let me, then, take a figure of 140,000 as a kind of consensus." (Debating the Holocaust, 2nd ed.)

The 42,200 figure for Majdanek includes non-Jews as well. From Graf and Mottogno's book on Majdanek:

"The number of revisionist Carlo Mattogno: 42,200 victims (1998)
... Mattogno made no attempt to determine the percentage of Jewish prisoners among his calculated 42,200 deaths... In the light of those statistics, the hypothesis seems plausible that, based on the number of victims calculated by Mattogno, approximately 60% of the 22,339 inmates who died in 1943 were Jews and around 90% of the 1,900 who died in 1944 were non-Jews. That would mean that approximately 13,404 Jews died during 1943 and about 190 Jews died in 1944, resulting in a total number of 27,938 Jewish victims at Majdanek (14,348 [including the Jews who died in 1941 reported by Korherr] + 13,400 + 190 = 27,938). The number of non-Jewish victims would thus be brought to about 14,262 (42,200 – 27,938 = 14,262), which amounts to a good third of the total number of victims."

By the way, I encourage you to add any additional, relevant info you have on deaths in concentration camps to this thread:

The Known Death Totals at German Camps
viewtopic.php?t=10198

It would be nice to have up-to-date death estimates (and total recorded deaths, which I agree is not the same thing) for each of the major camps. It would also be useful to know what percentage of these total recorded deaths were Jews.

It should be noted that the oft-cited number of alleged non-Jewish deaths in the camps ("5 million") by exterminationists is admitted to be a complete fabrication by Jewish historians. They claim that the correct figure is 500,000 and that they inflated the number by a factor of 10 just to make non-Jews care more about the event. See:

5 million gentiles / 11 million total victims - "a number without any scholarly basis" invented by Simon Wiesenthal
viewtopic.php?t=12403

[Pikawa]

Could you please explain me, how does mentioning 6 milion Jews before 1941 discproves Holocaust? I don't get it....
Btw. you should Google other numbers of Jews you will find mentions of 4 million Jews, 5 million Jews or even 10 Milion Jews exct...

It proves that the 6 million figure was around for decades prior to World War 2. It is proof that the general public should be wary of holocaust claims. Do you believe that 6 million Jews died during World War 1 ?
The 6 million death toll 1914-18 is bogus just like the claims of "gassings" during that conflict are bogus.
https://codoh.com/library/document/a-re ... e-myth/en/

Do holocaust denial laws prove the holocaust is genuine ? Does sending people to prison in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Romania and other countries prove the holocaust ?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14264

1. As is states 6 million despite being an actual dogma to people are still just estimates the death toll could be either higher or lower
2. Honest question, how many people do you think Communists killed?

[Owlett]

Owlett -- I believe that you are mixing up estimates of total deaths with estimates of Jewish deaths.

Ah yes it seems I have committed this blunder atleast several times here which I will go through myself with/for you, although there are still some anomalies I should like to point out for your opinion.

Rudolf makes it clear that the ~300,000 figure he gives for deaths in the camps include both Jews and non-Jews.

He does you are correct, except this makes Rudolf's graph more problematic in a few areas.

For Auschwitz the graph gives 60,000 which we are to take now as non-Jew's as well- but how does this figure mesh with the estimate for all deaths here given by other revisionists? If the others figure 130-150k, how does that mesh with this document giving only 60k for the same Jew+non-Jew? It's simple to see how 60k is about half or just under of the higher figure but now we're supposed to halve this already half figure for about 30k Jew's at Auschwitz dead (?) This appears to be a conundrum.

Again for Bergen-Belsen- it's conceivable that I committed this confusion of Jew's and non-Jew's here if the figure Rudolf's table gives here was for Jew's only as I inflated it to 30k (mainstream estimates give much higher figures here). But the claim that only 6-7k inmates of all kinds inc non-Jew's died in this camp is completely untenable to say the least. I've never seen a study contesting the lower end mainstream figures here in such an extreme way. If one exists I should like to review it.

^This is why this document is considered to be "incomplete". It is said to not contain all the camps which is obvious because it doesn't have Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka or Sobibor. It is said to not include unregistered inmates (such as those in transit) which explains the discrepancy in the Auschwitz figure. And it is said not to contain figures of events that happened right at the end of the war during the chaotic end and mass starvation of the evacuated inmates, which explains the very low figure (partially) for Bergen-Belsen.

Dalton's 140,000 estimate [for Auschwitz] also includes non-Jews:

"Faurisson (2005: 64, 114) has suggested a number of 150,000 deaths. Mattogno (cited in Rudolf 2011: 423) and Graf (2003: 298) argue that in fact the documented number of official deaths is correct: 136,000. Let me, then, take a figure of 140,000 as a kind of consensus." (Debating the Holocaust, 2nd ed.)

Concerning Dalton's chapter under question here- I agree with you he did not factor out Jew's from non-Jew's and directly cites these other scholars which demonstrates that was not done for us. Problematic though now is this chapter in Dalton's 2nd edition book because he has designed the chapter to be specifically about Jewish deaths and repeatedly mentions in the chapter throughout that these are estimated Jewish totals. It would seem here that Dalton has inadvertently inflated Jewish total's himself here.

The 42,200 figure for Majdanek includes non-Jews as well. From Graf and Mottogno's book on Majdanek:

I completely accept this was the most glaring blunder as I should have noticed this easily. Dalton himself gives 25,000 for Madjanek which seems to mesh quite well with the information you supplied from Mattogno which I won't requote.

...

So it appears that Dalton has given us Jewish and non-Jewish deaths for Auschwitz, seems to have adjusted them for Madjanek to be only Jewish. The camps "Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor" are not listed in Rudolf's table. In Dalton's chapter are they supposed to be Jewish or combined totals? It's difficult to say now without going over all the sources. As for Bergen Belsen I would like some light shed on this matter because this seems to be a massive conundrum. And as for the table in Rudolf's paper as a whole even for the camps it does give some of them are demonstrably way too low (Auschwitz by over half, Bergen-Belsen enormously eg.) if they are meant to be "combined totals" with just a quick comparison to other revisionist sources.

It would be nice to have up-to-date death estimates (and total recorded deaths, which I agree is not the same thing) for each of the major camps. It would also be useful to know what percentage of these total recorded deaths were Jews.

It definitely would Lamprecht, I agree. If you can digress what I have responded with further that would be helpful when you get the time as I would like to know if I am making further false assumptions here which can be demonstrated.

All in all though I have to reiterate- I would not reduce my figure for Bergen-Belsen in light of what I currently consider grossly wrong figures. Maintaining Chelmno, Sobibor, Treblinka and Belzec figures for now also, but reducing Auschwitz by 70k and Madjanek by 20k would put the Jewish deaths "in the camps" at 425,000, more than Graf's paper- but here I made another blunder because I did not take notice of the 150,000 deaths Dalton gave to the ghetto's which I need to deduct off of my figure which brings it down to 275,000 in the camps- right at Graf's level.

It would seem that this camp matter is resolvable.
-> But this completely ignores Operation Barbarossa.

By far the biggest question will be Einsatzgruppen deaths because even if we have 300,000 Jewish deaths in the camps and 150,000 deaths in the ghetto's (were these considered "Jewish" by Dalton?, if we have to add on 400 or 700 thousand for the task forces then things escalate quite close to or within the range of 1-1.5 million given by Sanning. And so this issue will spill over into how many Jewish deaths are to be attributed to the Soviet sphere of influence as well.

[Lamprecht]

Owlett - there might have been a time when I would have concerned myself with figuring out the most precise estimate of Jewish deaths during WWII, but that time has passed. The OP's question was on the "Holocaust" death toll. I do stand by my answer of "Zero" because there was no "Holocaust" as alleged. That doesn't mean that Jews did not die during WWII, like everybody else. Typically I will give an estimate of around 1 million Jewish deaths in Europe during this period. It might be more than 1 million but I do not think it reaches 2 million. This factors in the reality of over 100,000 Jewish soldiers in the Red Army perishing in battle. We also have to factor in starvation due to food shortages, which was exacerbated by the Allied efforts, especially the British naval blockade. And counting Jews is always a problematic endeavor, as I explain in the following thread wherein it is shown that estimates of Jewish population [in the USA] can vary by over 6 million depending on the definition used: viewtopic.php?t=12735

The important thing to note during this exercise of going camp-by-camp and estimating Jewish deaths is that in almost every case, you will find that the exterminationists have inflated the number considerably. Some laymen are desperate to believe in the "Holocaust" - possibly because they are convinced it would be wicked to question it, or they don't want to accept that they have been lied to. For many of these people (in my experience) if you cite a number like 1 million Jewish deaths, they will say something like "1 million Holocausted, 6 million Holocausted, it doesn't matter. Whatever happened was still evil!"
That's not to say that forcibly putting people into crowded camps on the basis of ethnicity is acceptable behavior, but it's not the greatest tragedy in human existence. It's not really unprecedented, nor was the suffering of Jews extraordinarily intense compared to all other European people during WWII.

Today, we cannot undo the internment of Jews by the Third Reich during WWII but we do not have to continue promoting a lie that states 6 million Jews were killed, mostly in gas chambers, as a part of some German policy to exterminate every last Jew in Europe. That is quite clearly a hoax, which is why the "Holocaust death toll" is precisely zero.

Exterminationists often try to argue that Hitler unjustly targeted individuals who were actually Polish, German, French or Russian on the basis that they were ethnic or religious Jews. They argue that it is wrong to look at Jews as a coherent group in this way. But if that is the case, it does not make sense to count a death from disease of an individual of Jewish descent in a Western European camp alongside the death of a Jewish terrorist in Eastern Europe in response to partisan activity. This exercise only makes sense if this widely dispersed population can be considered as a coherent group. And if that is the case, quite clearly the Jews were not a neutral party in this war.

[borjastick]

Lamprecht is right, the counting of jews is marginally harder than herding chickens. When it comes to counting jews in the US, it is particularly hard because there are those who dress and eat and act as jews, then those who are jews but never follow their religion and will always say, as if to lessen their jewishness 'we aren't religious though' and then those who have deliberately changed their name/faith/appearance/views/politics/support for israel and will never show up on any count.

Plus how many jews died naturally during Hitler's reign? Some say not many short of a million, are they holocaust victims or just victims of life and death? And when you look at jews and how they self identified during that period they always seem to want to be recorded as a separate race. The race of jew not Polish or French etc. Did that apply to them all and was that recording of their religion forced upon them and how did that affect the records of those who went missing after the war or died?

[hermod]

Could you please explain me, how does mentioning 6 milion Jews before 1941 discproves Holocaust? I don't get it....

If someboby lied to you 100 times, what is the probability that the same story told by the same person is not a lie the 101st time?

[Pikawa]

That would work if most of this mentions actullay talked about millions of Jews dying, istead they are talking about millions of Jews either living somewhere or in danger. The number of 6 milion is insignificant

[Lamprecht]

That would work if most of this mentions actullay talked about millions of Jews dying, istead they are talking about millions of Jews either living somewhere or in danger. The number of 6 milion is insignificant

You have it backwards. If they planned the "Six million Jews killed" in advance, obviously, prior to any event that can be used as a scapegoat, they are going to complain about the 6 million "at risk of being killed" rather than being killed. WWII and the concentration camps were exactly what they would have needed.

You're correct that pointing out that Jews were complaining about this number of Jews already is not proof that 6 million didn't die. However, there's no valid evidence that 6 million were killed. It's a baseless claim. In fact, those peddling this number have been exposed as liars over and over again. Without evidence for this 6 million claim, it should simply be dismissed. That's why I dismiss it.

And the same peddlers of the 6 million number admit to inventing millions of deaths out of thin air already.

5 million gentiles / 11 million total victims - "a number without any scholarly basis" invented by Simon Wiesenthal
viewtopic.php?t=12403

If you're convinced of the 6 million figure, make a thread explaining why you think whatever evidence you have is so convincing.

[hermod]

That would work if most of this mentions actullay talked about millions of Jews dying, istead they are talking about millions of Jews either living somewhere or in danger. The number of 6 milion is insignificant

A petty detail, Pika. Six million Jewish victims supposed to justify the Zionist seizure of Palestine are always a good propaganda gimmick whether they are allegedly suffering, in danger, dying or dead, aren't they?

https://postimg.cc/pm9wnWCy

The six-million figure is a religious myth derived from a misspelling in a 'prophecy' of Jewish return to the so-called Holy Land (missing 'vav', Leviticus 25:10, Torah) and quickly picked up by political Zionists for obvious reasons as a repetitive propaganda gimmick for their settler-colonialist scheme.

https://postimg.cc/PpwK7bNg

https://postimg.cc/QBNBBjpV

https://postimg.cc/94J58b3L

https://postimg.cc/v4jgkrWt
https://postimg.cc/MMTq04L6
https://postimg.cc/gLZmwhwm
https://postimg.cc/56W6B9fn

https://postimg.cc/kRdpcKwq