Offer to clear Poland?

[Deitrich]

In numerous places- such as in "Hitler's Krieg" film, it is stated that after beating Poland, Germany offered to clear out of their half of Poland, whilst retaining sovereignty over Danzig and the corridor and make peace with England and France...

The question was put to Quora and a case was made which denied this pretty convicningly..
https://www.quora.com/After-conquering- ... -for-peace

^Is there any evidence extant that Hitler did in fact propose the peace offer put forth by the film Hitler's Kreig???

In the form of speeches, documents, academic revisionist sources would be fine....

[Deitrich]

In numerous places- such as in "Hitler's Krieg" film, it is stated that after beating Poland, Germany offered to clear out of their half of Poland, whilst retaining sovereignty over Danzig and the corridor and make peace with England and France...

The question was put to Quora and a case was made which denied this pretty convicningly..
https://www.quora.com/After-conquering- ... -for-peace

^Is there any evidence extant that Hitler did in fact propose the peace offer put forth by the film Hitler's Kreig???

In the form of speeches, documents, academic revisionist sources would be fine....

Bump

For those interested [seemingly not so] in this very important and central issue (which I find bizarre) in terms of war guilt- I have located the source, first published by David Irving unfortunately in Hitler's War. Hitler's War was a reliable source but is now problematic to cite since his "downfall" if you interpret it that way.

His source is documentary in the form of a journal entry by the Swedish Birger Dahlerus- inconveniently located in an obscure citation which Irving provides in the most silly fashion at the end of his book providing references for the storybook kind of stuff he writes allocated to page numbers (why he does not adopt academic type references I dunno). It is corroborated by notions made by the Nazi's earlier in the Polish Campaign that the peace settlement would be made as depicted in the film Hitler's Krieg. (Hitler's War- What the Historian's neglect to mention)

This is satisfactory for me- and when the chapter "Overtures of Peace" is read and source vetted it should serve satisfactory for most rational people- but it's problematic in isolation to issue to 99% of the "believer" population (believer here referring to the German guilt question and lebensraum question)

It's important because the German offer to withdraw from Poland renders absurd the notion of Lebensraum meaning "wiping out the Slav's/Russian's" for obvious reasons.

[Hektor]

....
^Is there any evidence extant that Hitler did in fact propose the peace offer put forth by the film Hitler's Kreig???

In the form of speeches, documents, academic revisionist sources would be fine....

It was even in the English-Speaking media:
https://archive.org/details/16PointPlan ... tember1939
16 Point Plan Of Hitler's Sixteen Points Newcastle Sun 1 September 1939

[Deitrich]

....
^Is there any evidence extant that Hitler did in fact propose the peace offer put forth by the film Hitler's Kreig???

In the form of speeches, documents, academic revisionist sources would be fine....

It was even in the English-Speaking media:
https://archive.org/details/16PointPlan ... tember1939
16 Point Plan Of Hitler's Sixteen Points Newcastle Sun 1 September 1939

It's definitely not that simple. We're here talking about the offer to clear Poland- AFTER she was defeated at the end of September, early November. The liars don't dispute that, they dispute the notion that Hitler offered to clear his beaten half of Poland, sans Danzig and the corridor once Warsaw was defeated militarily, and the allies refused- thus toppling the liars notion of "lebensraum" in the East, and starkly highlighting the warmonger nature of the Western enemies.

This 16 points of peace with Poland was Hitler's final pledge before hostilites issued just before and printed in this newspaper on Sep 1st right after they'd broken out.

This is certainly not the same thing at all.

[Hektor]

.....

It's definitely not that simple. We're here talking about the offer to clear Poland- AFTER she was defeated at the end of September, early November. The liars don't dispute that, they dispute the notion that Hitler offered to clear his beaten half of Poland, sans Danzig and the corridor once Warsaw was defeated militarily, and the allies refused- thus toppling the liars notion of "lebensraum" in the East, and starkly highlighting the warmonger nature of the Western enemies.

This 16 points of peace with Poland was Hitler's final pledge before hostilites issued just before and printed in this newspaper on Sep 1st right after they'd broken out.

This is certainly not the same thing at all.

OK, it's a fragment and one needs to consider those, when looking at what you are looking for.

But how about this speech?
https://archive.org/details/AdolfHitler ... 1939-10-06

[Deitrich]

OK, it's a fragment and one needs to consider those, when looking at what you are looking for.

But how about this speech?
https://archive.org/details/AdolfHitler ... 1939-10-06

That is true of course. It's necessary to consider the entire month of September and the August and October before and after and developments of the Polish question which is of course how revisionist historian's have done it.

The Dahlerus clincher should be more accessible as these behind the scenes machinations are equally important for what went on here as are official public discourse.

With regards to the October 6th German peace offer, here is the transcript in English.
http://www.hitler.org/speeches/10-06-39.html

Particularly this passage:

What then are the aims of the Reich Government as regards the adjustment of conditions within the territory to the west of the German-Soviet line of demarcation which has been recognized as Germany's sphere of influence?

First, the creation of a Reich frontier which, as has already been emphasized, shall be in accordance with existing historical, ethnographical and economic conditions.

Second, the disposition of the entire living space according to the various nationalities; that is to say, the solution of the problems affecting the minorities which concern not only this area but nearly all the States in the Southwest of Europe.

Third, in this connection: An attempt to reach a solution and settlement of the Jewish problem [which concerned Poland as much as it did Germany who were also trying to free themselves from Jewish totalitarian control prior to hostilities]

Fourth, reconstruction of transport facilities and economic life in the interest of all those living in this area.

Fifth, a guarantee for the security of this entire territory

Sixth, formation of a Polish State so constituted and governed as to prevent its becoming once again either a hotbed of anti-German activity or a center of intrigue against Germany and Russia.

In addition to this, an attempt must immediately be made to wipe out or at least to mitigate the ill effects of war; that is to say, the adoption of practical measures for alleviation of the terrible distress prevailing there.

This "Offer to clear Poland" question seems to be resolved.

Hitler was willing to withdraw from Poland under an obviously justified conditional agreement. The British and the French refused.

Thus proving that the object was not to defend Poland at all- but to initiate war against Germany. It also demonstrates the absurdity of the mainstream view of the German war for lebensraum in the East and a design for Hitler to winningly attack the Soviet Union in a war of genocide and conquest a year and a half later.

[Deitrich]

A further lead.. The film "Hitler's Krieg- What the Historian's Neglect to Mention" is based mostly on the book "The War with Many Father's" by Gerd Schultze-Rhonof.

This book is endorsed by CODOH, and therefore should be near 100% honourable to factual truth.

I have not yet reviewed this book. I will indulge after my current volume and report further findings if available on a more reliable source than Irving here for all others to help all to combat the most important issues regarding the world's biggest lie.

Please jump in if anyone else can cite this evidence first.

[Otium]

In numerous places- such as in "Hitler's Krieg" film, it is stated that after beating Poland, Germany offered to clear out of their half of Poland, whilst retaining sovereignty over Danzig and the corridor and make peace with England and France...

The question was put to Quora and a case was made which denied this pretty convicningly..
https://www.quora.com/After-conquering- ... -for-peace

^Is there any evidence extant that Hitler did in fact propose the peace offer put forth by the film Hitler's Kreig???

In the form of speeches, documents, academic revisionist sources would be fine....

Bump

For those interested [seemingly not so] in this very important and central issue (which I find bizarre) in terms of war guilt- I have located the source, first published by David Irving unfortunately in Hitler's War. Hitler's War was a reliable source but is now problematic to cite since his "downfall" if you interpret it that way.

His source is documentary in the form of a journal entry by the Swedish Birger Dahlerus- inconveniently located in an obscure citation which Irving provides in the most silly fashion at the end of his book providing references for the storybook kind of stuff he writes allocated to page numbers (why he does not adopt academic type references I dunno). It is corroborated by notions made by the Nazi's earlier in the Polish Campaign that the peace settlement would be made as depicted in the film Hitler's Krieg. (Hitler's War- What the Historian's neglect to mention)

This is satisfactory for me- and when the chapter "Overtures of Peace" is read and source vetted it should serve satisfactory for most rational people- but it's problematic in isolation to issue to 99% of the "believer" population (believer here referring to the German guilt question and lebensraum question)

It's important because the German offer to withdraw from Poland renders absurd the notion of Lebensraum meaning "wiping out the Slav's/Russian's" for obvious reasons.

I have another source for you.

The Führer is prepared to move out of Poland and to offer reparation damages provided that we receive Danzig and a road through the Corridor, if England will act as mediator in the German-Polish conflict. You are empowered by the Führer to submit this proposal to the British cabinet and initiate negotiations immediately.”
Hesse was flabbergasted. Had a specter of things to come finally dawned on the Führer at the last moment? Or was it just a charade to see how far the British would compromise with the sword of war dangling overhead? Hesse asked Ribbentrop to repeat the offer. He did, adding, “So there will be no misunderstanding, point out again that you are acting on the express instructions of Hitler and that this is no private action of mine.” - Adolf Hitler by John Toland Page 573 of the Anchor Paperback Edition

The reference for this wonderful refutation of the uninformed Quora user is this

Hesse-Hewel: HH 84–85; Hesse, Das Spiel, Chap. 4; interview with Hesse, 1970.
On Hitler offer: Annelies von Ribbentrop 380; interview with Frau von Ribbentrop, 1971. - Page 983

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I'm currently finding it hard to find the Irving quote. On my pdf version the only reference to Dahlerus I get is said to be on page 241 instead of 240 in which the quote is from:

Early in September Göring had hinted to the British through Birger Dahlerus that Germany would be willing to restore sovereignty to a Poland shorn of the old German provinces excised from the Fatherland at the end of the Great War; there would also be a reduction in German armaments.

If this is the right one let me know, if you could also provide a page number for the note you found I'd appreciate it.

[flimflam]

What a great thread. I'm currently working on a request of the publishers of 'Traditions and Encounters', the $150 most widely used (I think) high school history text to correct their write-up on the origins of WW II which consists of a totally one-sided writeup of the Danzig issue that concludes with the sentence:

Hitler was ready to conquer Europe.

And from reading Buchanan and other sources, including the Hitler's War video, I knew this was BS. And I had a sort of a smoking gun, Hitler's 'Last Appeal to Reason' speech on 19 July 1940, which was well publicized by leafletting Europe -


But, it was a little late in the game. Then I came across a reference to the 6 October 1939 speech in M.S. King's 'The Bad War', which Amazon has de-listed by the way along with the holohoax books, and this thread has provided not one but two smoking guns, the relevant parts of the transcript of the speech and the Toland reference.

The account of the holohoax in the book is also complete BS, and I'll also send in a report on that. I had some success correcting my kids middle school history text, I submitted 3 errors and they corrected (sort of) each of them, one had to do with Eisenhower liberating death camps, another was "Hitler had no interest in avoiding war". I'm sure if you have any secondary school history text you will find blatant errors in the treatment of WW II, and from what I've seen the publishers have formal procedures when someone submits a correction. I recommend it.

[flimflam]

Bonus: There is a video by Gerd Schultze-Rhonof where he discusses the lead up to the war, the false history in the German textbooks, a bogus quote fabricated at Nuremberg, that appears in the Buchanan book btw, the attempted negotiations before the war, the sixteen point program, and more, the vid -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBLgZAv_Iqo

[Otium]

The Germans contacted the British ambassador in Sweden during the invasion of France - Victor Mallet, through Sweden's Supreme Court judge Ekeberg, who was known to Hitler's legal advisor, Ludwig Weissauer.

"Hitler, according to his emissary [Weissauer], feels himself responsible for the future of the White race. He sincerely wishes friendship with England. He wishes peace to be restored, but the ground must be prepared for it: only after careful preparation may official negotiations begin. Until then the condition must be considered that discussions be unofficial and secret. [...]

Hitler's basic ideas [are that] today's economic problems are different from those of the past [...] In order to achieve economic progress one must calculate on the basis of big territories and consider them an economic unit. Napoleon tried, but in his days it wasn't possible because France wasn't in the center of Europe and communications were too hard. Now Germany is in the center of Europe and has the necessary means to provide communication and transportation services.

England and America now have the best fleets and will naturally continue to, because they will need the oceans for their supply. Germany has the continent. In what concerns Russia, Weissauer has given the impression that it should be seen as a potential enemy."

According to Mallet, these were Hitler's peace terms:

"1-The British Empire retains all its Colonies and delegations
2- The fundamentals of Germany's continental sphere of interest must be recognized
3- All questions concerning the Mediterranean and its French, Belgian and Dutch colonies are open to discussion
4- Poland. A Polish state must exist
5- The Czechos state (formerly part of Czechoslovakia before Slovakia separated) will remain independent but under German protection"

Weissauer didn't go into details, but Ekeberg understood that implied that all European states occupied by Germany would see their sovereignty restored. Germany's occupation was only due to the present military situation.

Reference: The Hitler Hess Deception by Martin Allen, February 17 2003, ISBN 0007141181

I already posted the irving quote in which Hitler would leave Poland, but here's some additional info regarding Hitler housing the Poles.

Hitler’s notion was to mark the ultimate frontier between Asia and the West by
gathering together the racial German remnants scattered about the Balkans, Russia, and the Baltic states to populate an eastern frontier strip along either the River Bug or the Vistula. Warsaw would become a centre of German culture; or alternatively it would be razed and replaced by green fields on either side of the Vistula. Between the Reich and the ‘Asian’ frontier, some form of Polish national state would exist, to house the ethnic Poles – a lesser species of some ten million in all. To stifle the growth of new chauvinistic centres, the Polish intelligentsia would be ‘extracted and accommodated elsewhere.’ With this independent rump Poland, Hitler planned to negotiate a peace settlement that had some semblance of legality and thereby spike the guns of Britain and France. If however this rump Poland fell apart, the Vilna area could be offered to Lithuania, and the Galician and Polish Ukraine could be granted independence – in which case, as Canaris noted, Keitel’s instructions were that his Abwehr-controlled Ukrainians ‘are to provoke an uprising in the Galician Ukraine with the destruction of the Polish and Jewish element as its aim.’ - David Irving Hitler's War and the War Path, (Focal Point Publishing, 2002), pp. 225-226

And

‘Before these answers came,’ Weizsäcker wrote two days later, ‘the Führer himself had indulged in great hopes of seeing his dream of working with Britain fulfilled. He had set his heart on peace. Herr von Ribbentrop seemed less predisposed toward it. He sent the Führer his own word picture of a future Europe like the empire of Charlemagne.’ To the Swedish explorer Sven Hedin Hitler voiced his puzzlement at Britain’s intransigence. He felt he had repeatedly extended the hand of peace and friendship to the British and each time they had blacked his eye in reply. ‘The survival of the British Empire is in Germany’s interests too,’ Hitler noted, ‘because if Britain loses India, we gain nothing thereby.’ Of course he was going to restore a Polish state – he did not want to gorge himself with Poles; as for the rest of Chamberlain’s outbursts, he, Hitler, might as well demand that Britain ‘right the wrongs’ done to India, Egypt, and Palestine. Britain could have peace any time she wanted, but they – and that included that ‘brilliantined moron’ Eden and the equally incompetent Churchill – must learn to keep their noses out of Europe. - David Irving Hitler's War and the War Path, (Focal Point Publishing, 2002), pp. 244

I have proved that I (have done) everything possible to deal with the British. In 1940, after the French campaign, I offered my hand to the British and renounced (everything). I didn't want anything from them. On September 1, 1939, (I) made a suggestion to the British--rather I repeated a suggestion, which had been transmitted by Ribbentrop already in (1936)--the offer of (a) union, whereby Germany would (guarantee the British) Empire.[1298]

[1298] In fact Hitler would rather have avoided war against the "Germanic brother nation" and was never able to understand why England refused to give him continental supremacy [...] The remark about the year 1936 means the appointment of Ribbentrop as German ambassador to London, who was given the explicit command to probe the possibility of a German-English understanding. "Ribbentrop, bring me the English union!" are said to have been Hitler's words of farewell. Further above, Hitler speaks of the "offer" that he made to the English ambassador Henderson on August 25, 1939: He would agree to the British Empire and was willing to commit himself personally to its existence--under the preconditions that a) Danzig corridor problem would be "solved", b_ the colonial demands of Germany would be met, and c) his obligations toward Italy and the Soviet Union would not be touched, After the French campaign, Hitler--without mentioning any details-- made an "appeal to reason" during his Reichstag speech on July 19, 1940: He had never planned to "destroy or even damage" the British Empire and therefore did not see any reason for the continuation of the war. -- Source: Hofer,p.94; VB of July 20, 1940; Ribbentrop, p. 91 - Helmut Heiber & David Glantz, Hitler and his Generals: Military Conferences 1942-1945, pp. 466 and 985 n. 1298

[Hektor]

In numerous places- such as in "Hitler's Krieg" film, it is stated that after beating Poland, Germany offered to clear out of their half of Poland, whilst retaining sovereignty over Danzig and the corridor and make peace with England and France...
....
His source is documentary in the form of a journal entry by the Swedish Birger Dahlerus- inconveniently located in an obscure citation which Irving provides in the most silly fashion at the end of his book providing references for the storybook kind of stuff he writes allocated to page numbers (why he does not adopt academic type references I dunno). It is corroborated by notions made by the Nazi's earlier in the Polish Campaign that the peace settlement would be made as depicted in the film Hitler's Krieg. (Hitler's War- What the Historian's neglect to mention)
....

--------------------------------------------------
I'm currently finding it hard to find the Irving quote. On my pdf version the only reference to Dahlerus I get is said to be on page 241 instead of 240 in which the quote is from:



If this is the right one let me know, if you could also provide a page number for the note you found I'd appreciate it.

I'm looking into Birger Dahlerus right now. It seems he also has written books, but I struggle to find them with my usual sources.

There is extensive testimony by him also in Nuremberg. And I found some recordings there, that I need to study more first.

Dahlerus may have been of the opinion that second world war was the Allies fault and not the one of Axis/Germany.
In the questioning he does however seem to bend away from this. Sure, that he must have been concerned for his business interest as well. Something that may have gotten under scrutiny, if he didn't play along too much afterwards.