Challenge to exterminationist gl0spana on alleged mass graves // $100,000+ reward

[Lamprecht]

In another thread, the following post was made:

"Before the Nazis retreated from Kyiv ahead of the Soviet offensive of 1944, they were ordered by Wilhelm Koppe to conceal their atrocities in the East. Paul Blobel, who had been in control of the mass murders in Babi Yar two years earlier, supervised the Sonderaktion 1005 in eliminating its traces. The Aktion was carried out earlier in all extermination camps. The bodies were exhumed, burned and the ashes scattered over farmland in the vicinity.[48][49] Several hundred prisoners of war from the Syrets concentration camp were forced to build funeral pyres out of Jewish gravestones and exhume the bodies for cremation.[50]"

They simply dug up and burned the bodies from the several truly massive grave sites.

Nevertheless exterminationists claim to have dug up many mass graves.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... found.html

So it is essentially your word against theirs.

Actually, it is not anyone's "word" that matters. There are many different guidelines on forensically proving the existence of mass graves, and they differ in various ways. But two things are always consistent:

1. You must excavate (but not necessarily exhume) the mass grave
2. You must photograph the human remains

To simply say "I found it" is not sufficient at all. This is an alleged crime scene, imagine being charged with mass murdering people and dumping their bodies in a pit, and the prosecution claims to have uncovered the pit but provides no photographic evidence of such a thing. Do you seriously believe you would be convicted?

If you do think that would fly in a US court of law, I urge you to accept the simple challenge provided at http://thisisaboutscience.com where you can be rewarded $100,000 + more for simply proving something exists in a place you believe it exists.

It is claimed that three Operation Reinhardt camps [Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka 2] were “pure extermination centers” where over 1 million Jews were exterminated in homicidal gas chambers.

Alleged methodology of "eliminating the traces":
1. Dig tens to hundreds of thousands of rotting corpses out of alleged “gigantic pits”
2. Burn these many thousands of bodies on huge pyres made from railroad rails
3. Throw all the burnt remains, bones, teeth, wood ashes, etc back into the same alleged “gigantic pits”
4. Cover all the millions of pounds of physical evidence with “A thick layer of sand and dirt”


Claimed death tolls at the alleged CRIME SCENE:
– Treblinka II: 700 – 900 thousand
– Sobibor: 170 – 250 thousand
– Belzec: 435 – 600 thousand

TOTAL: 1.3 – 1.8 million. To simplify the math, let’s just go with 1.5 million

Quantity of human remains expected:
A 2004 study published in J Forensic Sci titled “Cremation Weights in East Tennessee” found that cremated remains weigh on average 2350g (5.18 lbs) per female and 3380g (7.45 lbs) per male. The minimum recorded weight of cremated remains was 1050g (2.3 lbs) for a woman and 1865g (4.11 lbs) for a male.

Keep in mind these figures are based on individuals cremated in a modern crematoria oven, whereas at these 3 "Extermination camps" the alleged hundreds of thousands of jews were supposedly burned in giant open air pyres. Naturally this would result in a larger quantity of human remains + additional wood ash. We can use 5lbs as the absolute minimum average weight of remains expected per alleged murdered Jew (it would actually be over 10lbs)

Quantity of burnt/unburnt human remains requested from the alleged CRIME SCENE(s):
– Novice: 1% of 1.5 million = 15,000 [OR min weight: 75,000 lbs / 34,000 kg]
– Easy: 1/10th of 1% of 1.5 million = 1,500 [OR min weight: 7,500 lbs / 3,400 kg]
– Child’s play: 1/100th of 1% of 1.5 million = 150 [OR min weight: 750 lbs / 340 kg]


From Yitzhak Arad’s book “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA” chapter 23, The Erasure of the Crimes:
“The camp command was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained… Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt… [Eyewitness] Abraham Goldfarb relates: …’we secretly placed in the walls of the graves whole skeletons and we wrote on scraps of paper what the Germans were doing at Treblinka. We put the scraps of paper into bottles, which we placed next to the skeletons. Our intention was that if one day someone looked for traces, they could indeed be found.’"


Fraudulently alleged mass grave maps (total #):
– Treblinka II (15): https://archive.is/zz7UN
– Sobibor (18 + 6): https://archive.is/oQMJv + https://archive.is/CH6WS
– Belzec (33): https://archive.is/e96yU


Ten Simple Questions for gl0spana:
1 – Which of the 15 alleged Treblinka II mass graves can you forensically* prove contain the remains of at least 150 human beings (OR 750 lbs / 340 kg of remains): __?__
2 – Which of the 24 alleged Sobibor mass graves can you forensically* prove contain the remains of at least 150 human beings (OR 750 lbs / 340 kg of remains): __?__
3 – Which of the 33 alleged Belzec mass graves can you forensically* prove contain the remains of at least 150 human beings (OR 750 lbs / 340 kg of remains): __?__
4-6 – Same as 1-3 but instead 1,500 human beings (OR 7,500 lbs / 3,400 kg of remains): __?__
7-9 – Same as 1-3 but instead 15,000 human beings (OR 75,000 lbs / 34,000 kg of remains): __?__
10 – How many of the 72 alleged graves at T2+S+B can you forensically* prove contain at least one milligram of human remains: __?__


* to forensically prove the existence of a mass grave which is claimed to exist in a precisely known location, you must produce conclusive, bona fide, verifiable, photographically documented archaeological findings. In other words, you must post a photograph.


Again: it is not unreasonable to ask for photographs; all mass grave excavation guidelines insist that photographs must be taken of the mass graves. Some examples here:

Mass grave excavation guidelines / The “Mass graves don’t produce photographed bodies” lie
viewtopic.php?t=12889


Remember: It is ILLEGAL in many countries to claim that these camps were not “extermination camps” but somehow we have not been provided actual photographic evidence that these alleged “extermination camps” contain even one “huge mass grave” containing the burnt remains of at least 1,500 (1/10th of 1%) of the alleged victims. There is no logical reason to NOT excavate and photograph the [alleged] mass graves as it is a legal imperative that someone believe they exist.


U.S. vs. Prudden – U.S. Court of Appeals – Fifth Circuit – April 1970:
"Silence can only be equated with fraud where there is a legal or moral duty to speak or where an inquiry left unanswered would be intentionally misleading."


Remember: If the alleged Treblinka II, Sobibor, and Belzec “Holocausts” really did happen as alleged, then there actually would be numerous discernible extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about – SCIENCE – and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged ‘archaeological proof’ that the true-believers insist is so ‘undeniable’


Remember also: it is ipso facto proof of fraud – if a scientist refuses to answer pertinent questions about their alleged / insinuated discoveries.

Disclaimer: "Deniers" (published revisionists) do not argue that there are 0 human remains at these sites. Their estimates seem to range from 2-5% of the claimed death tolls of the exterminationists; largely due to deaths in transit, executions (punishments for attempted revolts, escape attempts, euthanizing incurably ill, etc -- but not in "homicidal gas chambers")

[Hannover]

I posted this in another thread here:
'Nazi leaders who denied genocide in private':
search.php?keywords=contradictions&t=13315&sf=msgonly

in lieu of Lamprecht's challenge to gl0spana in the OP above, I think it is appropriate to re-post it here.

Thanks, Hannover
===========================

gl0spana said:

Before the Nazis retreated from Kyiv ahead of the Soviet offensive of 1944, they were ordered by Wilhelm Koppe to conceal their atrocities in the East. Paul Blobel, who had been in control of the mass murders in Babi Yar two years earlier, supervised the Sonderaktion 1005 in eliminating its traces. The Aktion was carried out earlier in all extermination camps. The bodies were exhumed, burned and the ashes scattered over farmland in the vicinity.[48][49] Several hundred prisoners of war from the Syrets concentration camp were forced to build funeral pyres out of Jewish gravestones and exhume the bodies for cremation.[50]"

They simply dug up and burned the bodies from the several truly massive grave sites.

Nevertheless exterminationists claim to have dug up many mass graves.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... found.html

So it is essentially your word against theirs.

So many contradictions and lies in one quote. LOL

* I remind you that it is your"Holocaust Industry" which makes the claim that the human remains from the alleged '6M Jews, 5M others' exist in known locations, not Revisionists.
Of course that contradicts the absurd & laughable claim that they were all exhumed and made to magically disappear, which itself is very impossible. The 'holocaust' propagandists can't even keep their lies straight, obviously so.

* Your 'holocaust controversies' Zionists do not show us any mass graves that are claimed. It is not 'our word against theirs'. They are the accusers, the onus is on them to prove their wishful thinking. Revisionists have and can prove that the alleged millions upon million of human remains are a lie, they simply do not exist; whereas the 'holocaust controversies' True Believers cannot show what they claim exists.

* You speak of Babi Yar, yet you ignore the facts about Babi Yar:

If anyone really thought that 'the Nazis' magically removed all the human remains then there would have been no attempts to find the alleged human remains.
!! Excavation Result: No Human Remains of alleged 34,000 Jews as claimed at Babi Yar !! In fact, no remains period.': viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

* And only liars need to make fake pictures:

caption: Photo taken from the body of a dead German officer killed in Russia, showing a Nazi firing squad shooting Jews in the back as they sit beside their own mass grave, in Babi Yar, Kiev, 1942.

more:
* Babi Yar: The alleged Einsatzgruppen 'Killings'
http://www.unz.com/article/babi-yar/
* 'What Happened at Babi Yar?, Fact vs. Myth' / Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity.: http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
* 'Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments': http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en
* 'Bodies at Babi Yar', John Gibbons Reporting: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302
* 'Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked': viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

*Here's more examples of where immense amounts of human remains are claimed to exist, but do not, as attempts to find them have shown.

staged Sobibor ‘monument’ / prop supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 in fact do not exist.:


Enormous "Mass grave" at Sobibor in which the date, cause of death, ethnicity has not been determined. LOL


Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.

Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.


Photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by "eyewitness" Samuel Willenberg:

It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
Does anyone see any “corpses”? LOL

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

[gl0spana]

[This reply has been moved from the following thread: Nazi leaders who denied genocide in private

Let's try to stick to one subject per topic as best we can.

Webmaster]

The document provided from the archive does not feature an entry for 9 Dec. I've screencapped the Dec 12 entry for all to see. There's nothing there.

https://ibb.co/JjYqpQs

Very suspicious of the source where you're getting this. It's from a Jew: David Cole. Why would you trust anything this guy has to say? His book is called " Republican Party Animal: The "Bad Boy of Holocaust History" Blows the Lid Off Hollywood's Secret Right-Wing Underground "

Correct, those two entries are from Tagebücher collection Part II, volume 6 - page 415 and 434. I will have to see if these are available online, but I did not find them on either archive.org or the other book website.
What I provided was Part I.

Are you insinuating that Cole totally invented the entries? If you do not have the book (which is not on that website, from what I can see) then that is a serious charge to make, especially on the basis that he is a Jew. Some might even call that "anti-Semitism."

Are you going to purchase the book and show these pages all to us?
Probably you could find it at a library if you try hard enough. I am more concerned about your claims of mass graves though and your responses to my 10 simple questions in the other thread:

Challenge to exterminationist gl0spana on alleged mass graves // $100,000+ reward
viewtopic.php?t=13321

You could use the reward money to buy the book

To collect the reward I will need to go to Europe and hire excavation crews to retrieve bodies from numerous site sites, then perform DNA testing on each to confirm these weren't polish officers shot by Russians or whatever.

This is precisely the reason why (at least in their mind) no excavations are happening. These are expensive, and they simply have no reason to do it. Your group is ostracized, small, without any political power. Simply you are not a threat to them, so they have no reason to cave to your demands. To them, you are no doubt fringe conspiracy theorists. It would be like the government doing an excavation of the twin tower remains to check for evidence of controlled demolition. I don't mean to insult, but thats how it is.

Let me recommend an alternative. If there are 150,000 holocaust truthers world wide, each can chip in 75 dollars. This would give the Jews ample fund to conduct an archaeological investigation, and they would probably even invite some of you along.

[Lamprecht]

Hannover:

Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.

The website posted in the OP: http://thisisaboutscience.com
Has, in addition to the $100,000 reward, a $500 reward if it can be proven that a single ounce of human remains exists in this so-called "Auschwitz Ash pond"

There is a 91 year old grandma in a prison cell in Germany right now for saying Auschwitz was actually a labor and internment camp

[Hannover]

gl0spana wrote:

This is precisely the reason why (at least in their mind) no excavations are happening. These are expensive, and they simply have no reason to do it.

Except that there have been attempted excavations, but they did not find what they were looking for. Oops!
You need to avail yourself to the facts.

Alleged "gas chambers' that could not have done what is alleged and no alleged human remains of millions upon millions to be seen in allegedly known locations = no so called 'holocaust'.


- Hannover

[Lamprecht]

To collect the reward I will need to go to Europe and hire excavation crews to retrieve bodies from numerous site sites, then perform DNA testing on each to confirm these weren't polish officers shot by Russians or whatever.

Either you're incapable of reading, lying, trolling, or hallucinating. Which is it? Please quote exactly where this is claimed. Who asked for DNA tests?

Additionally, the camps I listed - Sobibor, Treblinka II, and Belzec - in my 10 very simple and reasonable questions, as Hannover pointed out, have all had "archaeological excavations" undertaken; in some cases, multiple times with multiple published reports. Unsurprisingly, not one single "huge mass grave" in the quantities alleged has been shown to exist at these "extermination camps in these reports, nor anywhere else for that matter.

Further, nothing about my 10 simple questions (that are independent of the $100,000 challenge) said anything about DNA tests. I merely asked for human remains. Heck, I will even accept the remains of any hominid. It couldn't be any simpler.

This is precisely the reason why (at least in their mind) no excavations are happening.

But excavations have happened at these sites, once again. There are photographs of excavated earth at these camps, as well as a small number of human remains (far lower even than "Denier" estimates, anyway). There are numerous photographs of all sorts of trinkets and baubles, garbage, latrine pits, former structures, escape tunnels, and so on that have been uncovered in these investigations. Even a prehistoric shark tooth was uncovered at one of them.

And these supposed "Experts" also provided maps in their published reports claiming to show the exact locations of the alleged "huge mass graves" in these sites; These maps have been provided.

These are expensive

Both John Wear and Ron Unz (a Jew) have pledged $100,000 each to fund a true investigation of these camps. I am also sure Greg Gerdes, who is offering the $100,000 reward in the site I linked, would also pledge some money.

and they simply have no reason to do it

That is just your opinion though. The reason to do it would be to actually prove their allegations; allegations which are contradicted by a preponderance of evidence: both in the form of "Archaeological investigations/excavations" which failed to produce anything of substance, a plethora of documents describing the non-genocidal purpose of the camps, and various testimonies of people at the sites.

Your group is ostracized, small, without any political power. Simply you are not a threat to them, so they have no reason to cave to your demands.

So in other words, "We don't have to prove our claims because we can just throw you in jail if you dare to question them."

And yet some people are shocked that "Holocaust denial" is on the rise

To them, you are no doubt fringe conspiracy theorists.

Who exactly is "them"?
And the "Holocaust" narrative itself is the conspiracy theory. Until the enormous pits full of massive quantity of remains are shown, it's just a theory.

This is what we were promised:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/TjASa8Z.jpg/img]




Nothing of the sort has been shown. It would be incredibly easy and cheap to show at least one of these enormous pits. But not even one has been shown! Instead, the conspiracy theorists declare "We have proven that they exist" (despite not even trying to abide by the standards discussed in any published mass grave excavation guidelines). And then they draw a map and cover the area with gravel or stones so nobody can ever investigate them. This is scientific fraud, I suggest you look up what "Replicability" means. It is one of the most important features of published scientific research, and basically means that the research must be able to be replicated by another scientist.

Perhaps this arrogant, shady, and perverse behavior is what motivated this "Holocaust" event you are so desperate to believe in, as well as the 1,000 or so pogroms/expulsions/massacres of Jews that happened before Hitler was even born. What's truly unfortunate is the suffering all of the innocent Jews who are not involved in this malevolent behavior due to the persecutions which inevitably result from this incessant chicanery.

It would be like the government doing an excavation of the twin tower remains to check for evidence of controlled demolition. I don't mean to insult, but thats how it is.

How would it be like the government doing anything? It would be more like the government allowing independent investigators to actually investigate things instead of telling everyone to just believe whatever they say unquestioningly. Believe it or not, governments have lied before. I'm sure it's happened at least once or twice in history, if you did some reasearch you might find some examples

And how exactly can more investigations and information ever a bad thing? If someone is willing to volunteer their own money, time, and effort to do these investigations here, what's the issue here? Who exactly is the victim? Besides those who are hell-bent on peddling a scam for their own selfish reasons...

Let me recommend an alternative. If there are 150,000 holocaust truthers world wide

According to the ADL statistics, there are far more than that. Are these Jews lying?

each can chip in 75 dollars. This would give the Jews ample fund to conduct an archaeological investigation,

Why would Jews be the ones doing an archeological investigation here? When the "evil Nazis" discovered the mass graves at Katyn and Vinnytsia they allowed journalists, medical professionals, and other experts from many neutral nations to report what they saw and even uncover the bodies themselves. Of course, this was during a war so they couldn't spend eternity doing this.

I think a better idea than just paying more Jews, who have already [unscientifically] drawn their conclusions prior to entering the sites, would be to employ archeologists and other qualified experts that would be more objective. Perhaps some Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Guatemalans, Nigerians, etc. Why not have an international team of experts from all over the world come together and do these thorough diggings?

And also, as stated, over $200,000 has been pledged, and likely more would be as well if something actually objective and reasonable was planned.

What has happened instead is that these "pure extermination camps" have been dug up - by Jews and Gentiles being constantly followed by a Rabbi - and the quantity of human remains that have been actually exposed and photographed as a result do not even come close to the "Denier" estimates via deaths of disease in transit, people executed for revolts/crimes/escape attempts, those euthanized for incurable illnesses, etc.

In fact, one trainload of about 8,200 Jews from Kolomea to Belzec in a "resettlement action" resulted in roughly 2,000 dying before they arrived. In addition, 300 were executed for being incurably sick or ill (by bullet). This was likely an anomaly, and not due to homicidal intent but rather logistical difficulties in a chaotic period. Even though this was certainly a horrible situation, this is much different than the claim that 600,000 Jews were murdered in homicidal gas chambers at "pure extermination camp" Belzec.

and they would probably even invite some of you along

No that is certainly not the case. Firstly, a Rabbi must be present for all of these "Investigations" and if he says "stop digging" then it must be stopped. This is not archaeology: it is archaeological fraud.

In one instance, one of the Israeli archeologists that dug up one of the 3 camps I listed [and authored reports on these diggings] told me via email that the Rabbi following him around gave instructions to remove bones from other parts of the site and place them into an excavated pit with human remains before taking a photograph of it. (The context: I had emailed him about the photograph asking for a better quality version of it, and he said he cannot provide it until he publishes another report sometime the next year. I told him I was a Jewish college student trying to write an essay on the AR camps).

So, these "Experts" have certainly excavated pits and photographed them - and not only that, they have exhumed (physically removed) human remains which is not even a stated requirement in every published set of guidelines regarding the topic of forensically proving the existence of mass graves (multiple guidelines have been provided, feel free to post more if you can find some - in the appropriate thread of course).

And despite taking bones from elsewhere in the camp and putting them in a different pit before photographing, the pit still did not contain the remains of even 1/10th of 1% of the alleged remains at these 3 so-called "pure extermination camps!"

And secondly, a "Holocaust denier" could be arrested for going to these sites as they are in a country where it is a crime to "deny the Holocaust". And yes, this has actually happened before. I think you know this and are being facetious, but perhaps I am being too generous here.

We would all appreciate it if you could just answer the 10 simple, reasonable questions I have posted. It would show good faith

[gl0spana]

You're talking about Belzec? Yeah they found like 10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves there, and there could have been much more but they would have had to have dig on private property, so they claim. Based on his Mattogno's calculations there's room for almost 200,000 bodies there, though the exterminationists claim it could fit the accepted 430,00 figure. Mattagno's idea is that it was transit camp for Jews going east, but why would you need a transit camp with enough grave space to bury at least 200,000 people? Are they just people that died on the train? Are they Jews that died in the ghetto? Belzec is 2 hours from Lublin, 3 from Krakow. You need to divert trains that far just to bury people?

[Hannover]

gl0spana, you said:

Yeah they found like 10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves there, and there could have been much more

LOL. They found no such "10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves there".

And you cannot show them to us or you would.

Also revealing, another demolition of a 'holocaust controversies' True Believer:

Roberto Muehlenkamp challenged on his claim of 'crime site investigations' for Belzec & Treblinka
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11277

- Hannover

The Big Lie propaganda tactic requires constant repetition via a controlled media and suppression of free speech.

[Lamprecht]

You're talking about Belzec? Yeah they found like 10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves there

How about you show us one?

An Olympic size swimming pool holds 2,500,000 litres, or 2,500 cubic meters.

This is what a cubic meter looks like:



YES or NO - Can you actually show us one single "huge mass grave" from Belzec with just 1/10 of 1% of the alleged "10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves"?

That would be 25 cubic meters, you can refer to a calculator if you don't believe me.

[gl0spana]

I don't know how to prove this to you, sorry there won't be answer here, too lazy unfortunately

[Breker]

I don't know how to prove this to you, sorry there won't be answer here, too lazy unfortunately

It would then appear that you simply lied and cannot prove what you allege. A common trait of those appropriately described as "True Believers".

As is said, "Once they lie, they must continue to lie".
B.

[Lamprecht]

I don't know how to prove this to you

Why didn't the "Experts" follow simple guidelines? They are no secret

The UN provides guidelines for mass grave excavations, some excerpts are provided:
United Nations Manual on the Effective Prevention and Investigation of Extra-Legal, Arbitrary and Summary Executions https://archive.is/ER3DO

B. Proposed model skeletal analysis protocol
1. Scene investigation
....
(c) Photograph the work area from the same perspective before work begins and after it ends every day to document any disturbance not related to the official procedure
...
(h) Remove the overburden of earth, screening the dirt for associated materials. Record the level (depth) and relative co-ordinates of any such findings. The type of burial, especially whether primary or secondary, influences the care and attention that needs to be given to this step. Associated materials located at a secondary burial site are unlikely to reveal the circumstances of the primary burial but may provide information on events that have occurred after that burial;
...
(j) Circumscribe the body, when the level of the burial is located, and, when possible, open the burial pit to a minimum of 30 cm on all sides of the body;
...
(l) Expose the remains with the use of a soft brush or whisk broom. Do not use a brush on fabric, as it may destroy fibre evidence. Examine the soil found around the skull for hair. Place this soil in a bag for laboratory study. Patience is invaluable at this time. The remains may be fragile, and interrelationships of elements are important and may be easily disrupted. Damage can seriously reduce the amount of information available for analysis;

(m) Photograph and map the remains in situ. All photographs should include an identification number, the date, a scale and an indication of magnetic north;

(i) First photograph the entire burial, then focus on significant details so that their relation to the whole can be easily visualized; ...

From chapter 5 of the book entitled "Forensic Archaeology: Advances in Theory and Practice" which Amazon.com describes as "a textbook universally hailed as an indispensable guide" and "a complete introduction to the methods and means of forensic archaeology": http://web.archive.org/web/201911260044 ... 9174b69809

The Archaeology of Mass graves

This chapter is about the archaeology of mass graves...

Any examination of a mass grave will require excavation, but not all excavations will require exhumation. The archaeological examination is just one step in the process of determining the cause and manner of death, or other forensic issues including dating, or identity. The pathologists may require all, or merely some, of the bodies to be removed to a morgue, and may even be happy to examine the bodies within the grave itself...

Photographs taken of the state of work at the end of each day can assist in the writing of the report, and it is also important to photograph the state of the site at the start of each day’s work, to prove that no tampering with the evidence has taken place during the team’s absence overnight and at weekends...

The principles applied to setting up a conventional excavation can be extended to the excavation of a mass grave... Very roughly, and under favourable soil and groundwater conditions, about two bodies can be removed by one person per day. This rate of removal assumes that the bodies are cleaned, photographed and surveyed before removal. In addition to excavators, the team will need the services of staff experienced in archaeological surveying and an understanding of crime scene photography. Each body needs to be photographed, with appropriate documentation, at the critical point between cleaning and lifting....

The difference between "excavate" and "exhume" is that to excavate is to dig the hole and actually expose or show the remains, but exhuming means to remove the remains from the pit. Therefore, to actually prove a mass grave exists in a place, you must actually dig out the soil and have the bodies/remains physically exposed, but you do not always have to actually remove them from the graves.

Additionally, it is standard practice, based on UN [and other] guidelines, to photograph the site constantly and any excavated graves consistently. Every single source I have found discussing mass grave excavations has been extremely explicit on this point. For a proper mass grave excavation to occur ("proper" as in held to the standards of a court of law, or as valid archaeological findings) one not only must take photos of the remains, they have to photograph everything, every day, multiple times per day. They have to take specific photographs -- or rather document specific things with the photographs: time, date, orientation of the photograph (cardinal direction) -- and much more.

What I have requested is not even remotely close to that. My requests are incredibly modest in comparison. You said 10 Olympic swimming pool-sized mass graves were proven to exist at Belzec. However, you cannot even show one pit with 1% of one of these alleged mass graves.
And it's not just you: nobody can. Not even the "Experts" that claim to have proven the existence of these mass graves.

And there is a very simple explanation for why they cannot show them: Because they do not exist.

sorry there won't be answer here

There isn't an answer anywhere. I asked a simple YES or NO question. I guess it's safe to conclude that your answer is "No"

too lazy unfortunately

Do you think that the "Archaeologists" and "experts" that went to Belzec supposedly to prove that the "Holocaust" occurred at this site were also "too lazy" to excavate and photograph a mere 1% of just 1 of the 10 alleged "huge mass graves" supposedly the size of Olympic swimming pools at Belzec?
Were they also "too lazy" to look up the mass grave excavation guidelines before, you know, going to a place supposedly to prove the existence of mass graves?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe this silliness?

And you suggested that we try to gather over $11 million to give more Jews money to go lollygagging around again at one of these supposed "Extermination camps"

U.S. vs. Prudden – U.S. Court of Appeals – Fifth Circuit – April 1970:
"Silence can only be equated with fraud where there is a legal or moral duty to speak or where an inquiry left unanswered would be intentionally misleading."

From: viewtopic.php?t=12417

Another AR camp, Belzec, confirmed as transit camp:


https://archive.is/aLAj1/a2260bfffb2f0c ... 204d13.jpg

On 17 March 1942, Fritz Reuter, an employee in the post of Governor-General of the Lublin district, wrote a note referring to a conversation held the previous day with SS-Hauptsturmführer Hermann Höfle, the representative for the Jewish settlement in Lublin district; he wrote:

"Abschließend erklärte er [Höfle], er könne täglich 4 – 5 Transporte zu 1.000 Juden mit der Zielstation Belzec aufnehmen. Diese Juden kämen über die Grenze und würden nie mehr ins Generalgouvernement zurückkehren."

---

ENG: "He concluded [Höfle] that he could take 4 - 5 transports to 1,000 Jews a day with the Belzec destination. These Jews would cross the border and never return to the General Government [for the occupied Polish Region]."

Full document text: http://archive.is/g3FbN or http://web.archive.org/web/202002082213 ... e.it/6pylu

Juergen Graf:

"There can be no doubt whatsoever about the meaning of this document: Jews unable to work would be expelled from the General Gouvernement and deported to the occupied eastern territories. The sentence that Belzec was “the outermost border station in the Zamosz district” makes sense only in connection with an expulsion beyond the border. Like Sobibor, Belzec was situated in the extreme east of the General Gouvernement, close to the Ukrainian frontier."

- David Irving and the "Aktion Reinhardt Camps"
https://codoh.com/library/document/1905/

[Clay]

gl0spana:

To collect the reward I will need to go to Europe and hire excavation crews to retrieve bodies from numerous site sites, then perform DNA testing on each to confirm these weren't polish officers shot by Russians or whatever.

Lamprecht:

Either you're incapable of reading, lying, trolling, or hallucinating. Which is it? Please quote exactly where this is claimed. Who asked for DNA tests?

I looked at the http://thisisaboutscience.com/ website and found this:

A $1,000.00 bet - can be made for each one of the 100 fraudulently alleged / insinuated - mass graves / cremation pits - of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - wagering that you can prove they have been scientifically proven to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of at least 21 people.

To accept - THE $100,000.00 HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX CHALLENGE - simply challenge Greg Gerdes (see contact information below) to accept the following - Prove That It Has Been Proven - Wager:

I, _?_, am so confident that the so-called Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts” happened as alleged in orthodox historiography, and that the scientific / archaeological / forensic investigations of said “holocausts” were legitimate and the alleged findings validated; that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes $1,000.00 that I can definitively prove - in an online debate and in a U.S. civil court - that there is a preponderance of conclusively documented and substantiated scientific / archaeological / forensic evidence which proves, with 100 % certainty, that grave number _?_ currently contains the remains of no less than _?_ people.

Furthermore, I agree that if I refuse to answer any question or get caught lying during our debate or while in court - I lose the bet / case right then and there.

Note: The grave that you are wagering on must coincide with your answer to question #26 in the following questionnaire (which you must complete and submit along with your challenge): THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX - Mass Graves / Buried Remains - Forensic Evaluation Form.

And this:

Additionally, and independent of the $100,000.00 Holocaust Archaeology Hoax Challenge, a - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain, or to have been collected from, the remains of - at least 2 people. (Which is less than 1 / 10,000 of 1% of the alleged buried remains.)

To begin the incredibly easy process of laying claim to each reward and to set all requisite rules:

First - Potential claimants must submit their answers to Part One of the:

THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX - Mass Graves / Buried Remains - Forensic Evaluation Form (See contact information below.)

Second - Potential claimants must then request and confirm receipt of the official rules.

Third - Potential claimants must then submit their alleged preponderance of scientific evidence directly to Greg Gerdes for his endorsement.

Note: Potential claimants may be required to post their submittal on an approved website - and successfully defend it. In such cases, they must also - publicly pledge to sue Greg Gerdes in a U.S. civil court - (sans a jury and both sides pro se legal representation) if they refuse to accept a negative ruling.

Also note: Eligible potential claimants for any monetary disbursement offered on this website will be allowed to personally examine the proof that the ways and means to make good on their promised payment truly exists - and if they so choose, have said proven remittance amount be entrusted to an escrow agent.

So there are two challenges regarding these camps; one is to challenge Greg Gerdes to accept a bet and the other is a challenge to try to earn a reward. The reward is being offered not for proving the graves exist per se, but proving that they have been scientifically proven to exist, which is what a number of archaeologists and geophysicists have alleged to have already done. It is important to understand that all of the graves in question have allegedly been archaeologically / scientifically proven to actually exist. As it says very clearly on the website:

Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts” really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the true-believers insist is so “undeniable.”

So gl0spana, what are you going to do first; challenge Greg Gerdes to accept your bet or accept Greg Gerdes' challenge to try to earn one of the rewards?

[Clay]

Oh, BTW gl0spana, the following is the questionnaire that you are required to fill out regardless of what challenge you are going to make / accept. Be a sport will you, and fill this out ASAP right here so we can see your answers. Thanks in advance.

THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX


Mass Graves / Buried Remains Forensic Evaluation Form


PART ONE


A: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that huge pits were dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - _?_

B: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it has been conclusively proven - with 100% certainty - that huge pits were actually dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - _?_

C: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that mass graves have been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - _?_

D: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it can be conclusively proven - with 100% certainty - that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - _?_

E: Can you conclusively prove - with 100% certainty - that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of mass graves at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - _?_


* * * * *


#1 - List all of the Belzec graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

#2 - List all of the Chelmno graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

#3 - List all of the Ponary graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

#4 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

#5 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.


#6 - List all of the Belzec graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

#7 - List all of the Chelmno graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

#8 - List all of the Ponary graves / cremation pitsin question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

#9 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

#10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.


#11 - List all of the Belzec graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of more than 6 human beings: __?__.

#12 - List all of the Chelmno graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of more than 6 human beings: __?__.

#13 - List all of the Ponary graves / cremation pitsin question that you can prove currently contain the remains of more than 6 human beings: __?__.

#14 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of more than 6 human beings: __?__.

#15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of more than 6 human beings: __?__.


#16 - List all of the Belzec graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

#17 - List all of the Chelmno graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

#18 - List all of the Ponary graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

#19 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

#20 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.


#21 - Of the 33 alleged Belzec graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.

#22 - Of the 21 alleged Chelmno graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.

#23 - Of the 7 alleged Ponary graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.

#24 - Of the 24 alleged Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.

#25 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.


#26 - Of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.


http://thisisaboutscience.com/

[Lamprecht]

Clay: thanks for the clarification.
As for:

So there are two challenges regarding these camps

As well as my own separate challenge(s) independent of the thisisaboutscience.com website.

gl0spana insists that "they found like 10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves" but declares himself "too lazy" to show us 1% of just 1 of these alleged "huge mass graves."

I wonder why those who supposedly found them would not provide a smidgeon of actual evidence we can see (such as photographs of partly uncovered pits), were they also too lazy? If I can spend 30 minutes on Google and find all sorts of published guidelines on how mass graves should be forensically analyzed, a trained archaeologist with years in the field certainly should have been able to do that as well. And cameras are rather cheap, as are shovels. Mass graves are uncovered and photographed all the time, one can search Google images and find page after page showing this to be true.
One has to wonder why these "experts" are so secretive about their alleged findings, when they know there are many people passionately devoted to censoring and imprisoning anyone that decides to dispute these insinuated discoveries.
A very peculiar thing to witness, as is the demand for 7+ decades-old complete travel itineraries. Either they are there in the pits or they went somewhere else. People tend to have functional legs and can use them to travel throughout the world; mass graves, on the other hand, do not.