Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate

[Hannover]

While Revisionists have on a point by point basis completely debunked the unfounded assertions of the so called 'Holocau$t History Project' (I challenge anyone to post their arguments), here we have an example of how one their members does when actually attempting to debate informed Revisionists.

Read here as HHP spokesman, Andrew Mathis attempts debate at the former CODOH discussion bbs.

Follow the twists and turns this debate takes in a thread under Mathis's posted topic; 'Why does [this] strike me as being relevant?'* ... most revealing.

start here -
http://forum.codoh.com/codoh/408.html

*Here is the story which Mr. Mathis found "relevant", I noticed the link he initially posted is inactive, but here is the story he referred to. Read this then follow the thread given in link above.

- Hannover

1,500 sheep to be dug up as body fluid leaks

By Charles Clover, Environment Editor

THE carcasses of 1,500 sheep slaughtered five weeks ago because they were infected with foot and mouth are to be dug up and burned by Maff after blood was found bubbling up from the ground.
The sheep were buried at Buttington Hall, between Trewern and Welshpool, Powys, after the disease was confirmed on March 26. The Environment Agency has expressed concern that pollution could enter water supplies or the Severn.
It follows the discovery a week ago that 15,000 sheep buried on the Army firing ranges at Epynt, mid-Wales, were leaking body fluids into the water table and would have to be dug up and burned. Richard Tutton, who farms at Buttington Hall, said: "They were buried five weeks ago. The pit was very tidy, efficient and deep.
"We have had horrendous rain since then. Water has got in beneath and it was sort of bubbling up. It has not reached the river or anything. They are catching it before anything happens."
He was informed by the ministry on Thursday that it would be coming this weekend to exhume the carcasses and burn them. Allan Owen, group secretary for the National Farmers' Union in Welshpool, said: "It underlines the shambles of the whole situation."
He said that in his area some farmers were still waiting for compensation six weeks after their livestock had been slaughtered; the ministry had promised to pay it within 14 days. Four days before the Epynt case, the carcasses of nearly 900 cattle and sheep had to be moved when a farmer's water supply became discoloured near Tow Law, Co Durham.
The Environment Agency has said burial on farms is its least favoured option; it prefers purpose-built incinerators and rendering plants and engineered landfill sites.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... fnm328.xml

[steve]

That was quite an interesting thread. Thanks, Hannover, for posting it.
Cat Scan did a great job.

Now, I had once stated that the main reason I realize the H is a lie, is NOT by what the revisionists say, but by what the holocausters themselves say (or NOT say/do.)

For example, a significant argument the revisionists use is the time it takes to cremate a body. Certainly, the hoaxers are aware of this. So, rather than referring to documents, 'witnesses', etc., why don't they simply build an oven, similar to what they claim the Nazis had, or even independent from what the Nazis had, and see if one can indeed cremate a body in the time the hoaxers claim.

Also, I know absolutely nothing about how a body burns. Can it eventually burn itself, and be used to burn (cremate) other bodies? While I'm fairly certain knowledge exists to answer that question, again, if in any doubt, the hoaxers should be able to simply demonstrate their claims. Surely, there must be somewhere in the world where the are piles of dead bodies needing cremation. Whether that seems ghoulish or not, if the hoaxers claims were legit, they would have demonstrated it by now. At least to demolish the revisionists' arguments.

A.M says this: "...It also discounts the testimony of literally hundreds of people, perpetrators and survivors both,".

Well, too many of them have been shown to be outright liars. As for so-called perpretators, well, if you tortured me, of had power over my family, even I would confess to gassing people.

A.M :"How can such a conspiracy have remained undetected for 56 years?"

Well, it hasn't.

As far as I'm concerned, when I mentioned the story about the guy (jew) hanging upside down under a moving train for 18 hours, all the while being defecated on, and A.M. said that such a thing was not so unbelievable (due to people being capable of amazing things under pressure or stress), the rest of his already low credibility went right down the drain. I simply do not believe he wants to be truly fair in a discussion of the Big H.

Steve

[Hannover]

Andrew Mathis says:

"...It also discounts the testimony of literally hundreds of people, perpetrators and survivors both,".

And ofcourse when these "testimonies" are examined one by one they fall from their own weight of absurdity.

I guess Mathis thinks that the "literally" hundreds of thousands of UFO/space alien abductee testimonies are credible too.

Just saying so doesn't make it so.

- Hannover

[TMoran]

Oh no, not the old 'Holocaust bodies burned like wood' trick? That is the ultimate desperation of those in the Holocaust community.

Did Mr.Mathis say -

"Who says no fuel was used?

However, if you begin something that has flammable material in it, such as a human body that has fat, then it will eventually burn on its own. Furthermore, you can use it to ignite other things, such as other bodies."?

Looks like Mr.Mathis first claims there was fuel used but then says it wouldn't be necessary. There are a number of fuel tales but none of them relate anything credible which is why we can have a couple of Holocaust confessions or survival tales that say the bodies would just burn on their own without the need of continuous external heat. That would be why we would have members of the Holocaust community arguing that bodies could burn just like wood.

Take one Holocaust body and get it to burning, then just add more, just like starting a wood fire.

Backyard scientific experiment -

Start fire in barbecue using wood so there are plenty of flames. Take one 5 pound pork roast (high fat content) and place on top. Get pork roast to burning. Add on more. But hold it. First subject initial pork roast to considerable time over the fire, then lift off grill and place away from fire to see if it will continue to burn before you waste any more pork roasts. If you find that the pork roast doesn't continue to burn on its own, which it won't, then you have a scientific experiment to show that the 'Holocaust bodies burned like wood' thesis is the inane desperation that it is.

Holocaust desperation certainly incites the Holocaust community to commit themselves to some desperate proposals.

[Hannover]

see more from Tom Moran here:

http://tmoran.yourforum.org/archive/index.html

- Hannover

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

That was interesting to read that whole codoh thread. Who is this Cat Scan? I think he's English, and the English have wonderful communication-thinking abilities as seen with this guy. Too bad we can't get him coming to revforum.

Also was impressed to see Hannover and Scott posting smart posts there. Back in 2001! I wasn't doing that back then! That's impressive that you guys were!

Interesting what Cat Scan said about burning and the carbonization process. How if you have too much heat, you carbonize and get a giant, rock hard coal-like substance.

Fat. AKA Tallow. It needs a wick. Afterall, otherwise since it is liquid, it just falls from the meat and drips to the ground. I made a tallow candle once, and it worked. The pure goose fat would not ignite on its own, it burned a perfect candle where I'd placed the string in the middle of the bowl.

Next time you cook a chicken, save the fat and put it in the refrigerator, then later take a big scoop with a fork and place it into the flames of a barbecue. My prediction is the fat will melt to liquid immediately, fall off the fork, and actually put-out the coals where it falls, so you're glowing coals will have an area where it's not glowing, where the fat fell.

In a perfect school, 10 year olds would have the above as homework, rather than having to read Anne Frank! It would teach the children how adults can come up with the most ridiculous lies that build and build and build, and that one should have a scientific open mind, to be able to see through the lies.

And if burnability is all about heat, then it's interesting how apparently in Hilberg's latest rendition of his book, he says that the nazis found that outdoor burning worked better than crematorias. Yet, what percentage of the heat escapes in an outdoor fire?

[Hannover]

Yep, I received yet another hate email from Andrew Mathis, so I thought it fitting to have this thread brought to the front. The poor, sad man lives his life through me. He keeps creating new email addresses just so he can get around my filters. Pathetic.

Among many desperate acts, Andrew Mathis is a man responsible for threatening Revisionists.

Andrew (little Andy) Mathis is also a premiere spokesman for the laughable, so called 'holocau$t' History Project, and has cemented himself to the floor of the scientifically impossible 'holocau$t' storyline. Now he resorts to desperate acts as the ultimately unsustainable 'holocau$t' lies fall apart faster than a cheap suit.

Imagine, this poor man is supposedly a substitute teacher associated with La Salle & Villanova universities. The standards have certainly declined in academia.

Also see these on Andy:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

It must be hard defending impossible lies.

- Hannover

[Hannover]

What can anyone say, the judeo-supremacist positions are here for viewing, and the Revisionist positions make mincemeat of them.

It's great to have truth on our side. All Revisionists have to do is tell the truth, those like Mathis are left defending lies and laughable impossibilities. And then it's compounded by the fact that they can't keep their stories straight. People like Mathis really should abide by this saying:
'Tell the truth, it's easier to remember.'

- Hannover

Additional threads where the oh so useful 'holocaust' History Project spokesman, Handy Andy Mathis, ends up on his wallet:

'holocaust' denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2816

'Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP's Andrew Mathis' bogus article'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2841

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

'Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

'Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=254

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2498

'Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526

'holocaust' History Project to unveil section on Treblinka'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=280

[teapreacher]

I don't know whether he will be demolished again but....

Franklyn White will be debating Dr. Andrew E. Mathis of "RODOH" (Real Open-Debate on the Holocaust) on "Uncensored Radio Free America" with Rick Adams this coming Monday, November 19th, 2007!

You may catch the broadcast live at 9:00 PM (central time) at:

http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/

Topics will include Israeli Apartheid, Lebensraum and genocide.

http://israelwatchproject.blogspot.com

Best wishes to Franklin.

[MrNobody]

You know what's needed?
Some hard evidence on the impracticalities & difficulties of Mass Cremations, disasters such as the 1984 Bhopal gassing from the Union Carbide Plant which may have claimed up to 5,000 victims on the day & the 1970 Bhola Cyclone in Bangladesh which claimed as many as 500,000 deaths are perfect since Cremations are mandatory because of cultural & religious beliefs, they are also Humid subtropic nations of high heat & high Humidity which necessitate fast body disposal.
perhaps the WHO (World Health Organization) can provide some material on the disposal process which occurred at these 2 events, such as method & amounts & type of fuel used??

[Flavian Greece]

However, if you begin something that has flammable material in it, such as a human body that has fat, then it will eventually burn on its own. Furthermore, you can use it to ignite other things, such as other bodies."?

I'm thinking about sending a letter to "Myth Busters" so they might find interesting enough to try this one with their pigs so use so often to prove other myths.

[Kiwichap]

I just heard the debate on RBN between Mathis and White; Rick Adams Show. 'The legitmacy of Israel'
http://arc.republicbroadcasting.org/Adams/07/11/Adams_111907_210000.MP3

I thought Mathis was pretty brave appearing knowing his dislike of real history. I thought he was gonna get ripped to pieces. I know Adams would not allow expletives, so that would knock 85% of Mathis' vocabulary out. But his strategy worked; agree with the opposition in everything, and its a sweet ride without too many bumps. That strategy kills any debate but its good to know Mathis thinks that shi**y little place really is that shi**y little place. Theres hope for him yet.

Of course after that little episode he better be watching over his shoulder. An angry Foxman may be lurking around the corner.

[Laurentz Dahl]

You know what's needed?
Some hard evidence on the impracticalities & difficulties of Mass Cremations, disasters such as the 1984 Bhopal gassing from the Union Carbide Plant which may have claimed up to 5,000 victims on the day & the 1970 Bhola Cyclone in Bangladesh which claimed as many as 500,000 deaths are perfect since Cremations are mandatory because of cultural & religious beliefs, they are also Humid subtropic nations of high heat & high Humidity which necessitate fast body disposal.
perhaps the WHO (World Health Organization) can provide some material on the disposal process which occurred at these 2 events, such as method & amounts & type of fuel used??

Good idea.

Regarding the problems with mass cremations:

In their book on Majdanek (p.221f), Graf and Mattogno discusses the open air cremations that took place in Krepiecki Forest close to Majdanek in 1943. SS Erich Mußfeldt had testified in 1947 (in Soviet detention) that 6000 corpses were dug up from previous mass graves in the forest and cremated on open air pyres during a period of 8-9 months. The following is Mußfeldt's description of the cremations:

I spread old truck tarps over rocks piled to a considerable height, ordered the bodies placed on these, and poured methanol over them. I had wood stacked beneath the tarps and set on fire. In this way about 100 bodies could be burned at one time. Some of them had been dug up, some were fresh, just brought in from the camp. After such a load had been reduced to ashes, these were pounded to powder and dumped into the pit whence we had removed the bodies in the first place. To pound the ashes we used iron sheets and pounders.

The Polish-Soviet Commission found 4,5 cubic meters of human ashes in Krepiecki Forest, corresponding to at most 3000 corpses. Mußfeldt's statement may thus have been slightly overexaggerated (yet this is nothing compared to the Commission's conclusion that 700,000 corpses had been cremated at the site!)

Mattogno comments:

Judging from a photograph taken in Krepiecki Forest in 1943, cremation proceeded very slowly even with the set-up described by Mußfeldt. The photo shows about 20 charred bodies lying on a metal grate, which rests on some stones and has warped from the heat.[602] In light of this it is not surprising that the cremation of each of the 90 pyres holding 100 bodies took an average of four days.

("90 pyres" = Mattogno is here referring to the statement that another 3000 corpses were supposedly excavated from mass graves closer to the camp and cremated in the same fashion during the same nine month period)

The reference is to photographs 1 and 2 found on unnumbered pages in Tadeusz Mencel (ed.), Majdanek
1941-1944, Lublin: Wydawnictwo Lubelskie, 1991.

It would be great to have a copy of those photos showing a (possibly) authentic Nazi incineration pyre anno 1943.

If it took four days to incinerate just a hundred corpses on one pyre, how is it possible that the Germans managed to burn several thousand of corpses per day in each of the Reinhardt camps. If the metal grate was warped due to the heat at Krepiecki, what would not happen to the alleged "grills" at Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec, whereupon thousands of corpses were supposedly placed.

[RJJJr]

I remember this debate, Mathis truly was bitch slapped.