Great Post at AxisHistory / 10,000 per day convergence

[nny]

I'm sorry if this has been posted before, I've never seen it in my times here and if it has it deserves a re-post

Little background on AxisHistory, very well read Moderators who strictly enforce their rules against Holocaust Denial as they find they get enough hatemail by their name being AxisHistory Forums they don't want to confuse people even more by allowing Revisionists to roam the site. Anyways, from http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1609

From a revisionist point of view, there exists several ways to debunk and disprove the standard story of the holocaust. Through chemistry and archeology for instance or by demonstrating how things simply aren’t physically possible. Holocausters however, tend do disregard discomforting facts and unwanted finds and instead buttress themselves beyond walls of documents, that may or may not be authentic, and through their interpretation they stick to the hope that in the end, the Word will finally defeat reality. “This way you can’t touch me!”, they seem to yell in the face of the latent temptation to, heaven forbid, regard revisionism with sincerity.
But as with all walls erected on loose sand there are a number of cracks and holes also in this monument of “certified true copies”, which easily can be discovered and exploited if one looks for them. I’m talking about internal consistency, a standard option in any historical or criminal investigation, but somehow conspicously absent when it comes to holocaust research.
Let’s see what happens to a some documental proof when it’s compared internally and not arranged in the standard fashion by anonymous reference and footnoot in order to “prove” the standard story. The question is, what killing capacities could actually be utilized daily at the extermination camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau?


Excerpt from the so called Franke-Gricksch Report, an original German document, claimed to have been produced by a certain SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Franke-Gricksch, on an inspection trip to the General Gouvernment, May 4-16, 1943 (first known reference, Charles W Sydnor, “The Soldiers of Destruction” (1977) p.3371):

“The corpses are then loaded into the elevators and are taken to the first floor. There are located ten large crematory ovens, in which the corpses are burned. (Because fresh corpses burn particularly well, the entire process requires only one-half to one Zentner [50 to 100 pounds] of coke). The work itself is carried out by Jewish prisoners who will never leave this camp.
The result so far of this "resettlement action": 500,000 Jews.
The present capacity of the "resettlement action" ovens: 10,000 in 24 hours”


Excerpt from DOCUMENT 008-USSR Report by the Soviet War Crimes Commission, 6 May 1945:

“Later, four crematoria were in operation on the grounds of Birkenau camp; every one of them had one gas chamber. Crematoria nos. 2 and 3 were of the same type, and each had 15 crematory ovens while those of crematoria nos. 4 and 5 were of another type -- not as big, and of inferior technical quality, each with 8 crematory ovens. All the crematoria incinerated 10,000 - 12,000 bodies per day.”


Auschwitz Commandant Rudolf Höss, according to G. Gilbert in “Nuremberg Diary”:

“In answer to my rather naive questions as to how many people could be done away with in an hour, etc, he explained that one must figure it on a daily 24-hour basis, and it was possible to exterminate up to 10,000 in one 24-hour period. He explained that there were actually 6 extermination chambers. The 2 big ones could accommodate as many as 2,000 in each and the 4 smaller ones up to 1500, making a total capacity of 10,000 a day.”


Miklos Nyiszli (Crematorium doctor), “Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account” (1961):

"In all up to 10,000 men could be brought from the gas chambers into the crematory ovens every day."


Rudolf Vrba (famous escapee), “I Cannot Forgive” (1963), p.10:

"For the modern concrete gas chambers and the vast crematoria that could absorb as many as 12,000 bodies in twenty-four hours and, in fact, did so. For the machinery that sucked in 2,500,000 men, women and children in three years and puffed them out in harmless black smoke."


Filip Müller (Sonderkommando veteran), “Sonderbehandlung, Drei Jahre in den Krematorien und Gaskammem von Auschwitz“ (1979), p.97:

"Die Vermehrung der Zahl der Öfen im Vergleich zum Auschwitzer Crematorium auf beinahe das Achtfache und der Einsatz Auschwitz: von vierzigmal mehr Häftlingen im Sonderkommando machten es, nachdem anfängliche Schwierigkeiten im Ablauf der Vernichtungsprozedur beseitigt worden waren, möglich, in 24 Stunden bis zu 10.000 Leichen einzüaschern."


Adolf Eichmann, Eichmann trial, Session 10, April 19, 1961:

"In Auschwitz I had to look at those installations yet once more. I told Hoess this and as a consequence he ordered a field car. We rode in the field car through some area - I didn't know my way around in Auschwitz. This was a section - far from the headquarters. I had been there on my business several times only in the headquarters, near the main entrance, I had never been further inside - I also did not have any inclination to do so - and then I saw large buildings, large buildings, this was already in the guise of a factory, the enormous chimney, and Hoess said to me: "Yes," he said, "here there is a capacity of 10,000 - yes 10,000..."



It’s plain to see. There can be no doubt about it. These seven sources, some referred to very frequently by holocaust historians but to different effects, all converge to form one definite statement about the Auschwitz death camp: the gasovens were able dispose of at least 10,000 people every day.
From the perspective of a normal historical assessment, let’s say for an event that took place in the 17th century or antiquity, such a high number of obviously unrelated sources, some originating with the prime perpetrators of the crime even, would not encourage much further scrutiny. Evidence would be considered well founded. As far as witness statements are concerned, this is one convergence of evidence par excellence. But the holocaust is not a normal historical event. And what’s worse, not a shred about the 10,000 number is even true! Even holocaust defenders say it isn’t.
As a matter of fact, we are currently supposed to believe that the maximum capacity of the camp’s killing devices on a 24-hourly basis stood at about 4,768 human beings, all according to a certain “Aktenvermerk” document of June 28, 1943 – “Leistung der nunmehr vorhandenen Krematorien bei einer 24 stündigen Arbeitzeit”. Some might even suggest a lower estimate, but not so low as to cast doubt on the authenticity of said document, which revisionists by the way regard with the utmost scepticism. Revisionists in their turn claim that even the 4,768 number is an outrageous exaggeration, that about 1,600 bodies would be about maximum possible capacity, provided the ovens went non-stop around the clock and all 52 muffles were put to use simultaneously, which historically speaking they never were (there was never any need for it).

So what about this derelict 10,000 certainty? Well, one thing's for sure, even if people once were executed for its irrefutability, we won’t see it surface again in future textbooks on the holocaust. Like so much useless statistics on chocolate and cigarette production, even the recollection of its existence is fated to go down the big incineration memory hole, operating tirelessly at the Ministry of Truth of holocaust mythomyopia.
For good reason naturally, as the implications are devastating. Let us briefly analyze what it actually means for the 10,000 number to be a “mistake”.
To begin with, the 10,000 number is ascertained by several German first hand perpetrators, all on their own. Franke-Griecksch, who manages to give a fairly accurate description of Crematoria II and III, testifies to the 10,000 even before all crematoria at Birkenau were finished! His fairly accurate description of the Kremas moreover, (some minor errors include a door at the back of the gas chamber, three insertion columns instead of four and 10 muffles instead of 15) generally implies that he probably was in Auschwitz, lending credibility to his statement on the 10,000 number, provided of course the document is genuine.
Höss, the camp commander, who’d be the first person who had actually had to know the capabilities of the installations for which he was responsible, gives an eloquent testimony about it after capture, when there would be zero reason for him to even mildly exaggerate their efficiency.
Eichmann finally, an absolute pillar of things holocaustian, gives his erroneous statement at the trial which led to his death, by referring to what Höss allegedly had told him, while standing in the shadow of the huge “factory” buildings of incineration. In reality, the crematoria of Birkenau were more the size of your average barn and resembling schoolhouses rather than industrial installations.
What then about these three statements leading back to Höss as their unwitty originator? That hypothetis would not only be pointless but actually totally senseless. If Höss had instructed Franke-Griecksch to report to Berlin a more than doubled or sixfold efficency, respectively, Himmler and Eichmann had quickly realized they could have increased shipments by the same amounts, leading to immediate collapse of Höss’s entire operation if materialized.
And then we still have the survivor statements to put into account. This disposable Sonderkommando personnel could hardly be assumed to have taken lectures from the entourage of Höss in their spare time. Still they knew the Leistung of their machinery very well and what it was able to accomplish. And why not? They spoke out of first hand experience, noting how many train transports could be consumed in a labour shift etc. Filip Müller spent three years toiling inside the crematoria and Rudolf Vrba has in great detail elaborated the way in which his position as “Schreib” enabled him to design a selfmade system to roughly track number of arrivals and selectectees for death. Not least during the Zündel trial of 1985.
Yet all these witnesses manage to err to an almost exact, commonly acclaimed amount far off the mark of later, more “scientifically” minded holocaust defenders.
Amazing, isn’t it.

The impact on documentary evidence that this fallacy produces is no less crippling. If the statements of original German documents, testimony of prime perpetrators awaiting death and essential witnesses are proven to be technically false, how much else of the standard documentary reference, forming that formidable paper bastion of irrefutably converging evidence might not be suspected of patent falsehood? To my mind, all of it. Eichmann testified about the Führerbefehl, he said Heydrich spilled it to him in the summer of 1941.
But the central point is actually another. It is possible for people to err on an independent basis. It is even possible for several people to grossly misjudge the same issue, all from their own private viewpoints. But it is totally inconcievable that several people who grossly misjudge a mathemathical calculation independently, would arrive at an identical, arbitrary result. The statistical probability for such an occurrence to happen ought to be next to nothing or cannot even be concieved of.
There is one remaining possibility, however. A third party, who already had the fundamentals of the story in line, has imposed or attributed certain aspects of it on various sources and witness statements. There is simply no other way to credibly explain the situation.
I’m not even certain I wish to comment on this issue any further. It will be fun just watching the holocausters squel and wrestle, while desperately trying to wiggle themselves out of it.

Every once in awhile a post just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside I'm sure the originator of this post is well on his way to bannage. He took all those exterminationist posts and turned that 10,000 number they hold so dear against them, theres some irony.

So now this Convergence takes on a different meaning, which is quite obvious for most thinking people.

It should be noted that Nyiszli's 'testimony' can be found on the USSR-008 document, signed by Burdenko. Burdenkos 'authoriztion of authenticity' can also be found on USSR-054 describing the German massacre of Polish Prisoners at Katyn presented at Nuremberg (Eyewitnesses and all).

I'd have to add this to my list of most damning evidence, Convergence of the 10,000 number.

[Bergmann]

Similar is the 4 million number of victims in Auschwitz. Here we also find witnesses who testified under oath to this number.

Holojunkies tend to explain quickly, that no serious “normative” historian ever agreed with the 4 million number.

That may very well be. But what about the credibility of the eye witnesses, like Henryk Tauber? Were they coaxed? By whom? For what purpose?

By exposing the tall tales of so called eye witnesses is where the real damage is done to the pseudo Holocaust religion.

By the way, it is interesting to read the insulting way in which the poster of the TRF was countered. This is very typical: Insult the skeptic to discourage any further critical posts.

[Radar]

Let's honor 10-12,000 per day and see how that reflects on the gas chamber forensics. That's a lot of residue!

[mapleleaf]

WW2 -the responsibles-the winners-the losers.
WW2 --Who were the responsibles.... The true history.

"Judea declares War on Germany." - Daily Express (March 24, 1934)


"Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our moral enemy. Have no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill every German -- wipe them out!" - Llya Ehrenburg, Glaser (p. 111)


"Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless campaign against all German peoples and the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child." - Jewish professor A. Kulischer (October, 1937).


"Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what is possible. Israel has been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend Israel! Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And the world will defend us." - Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book Epitres aux Juifs (1938)

"Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there during the 30-year War." - Das Morgenthau-Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Dairy (p. 11)


"The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish community, on every conference, in all labor unions and by every single Jew in the world. There are reasons for the assumption that our share in this fight is of general importance. We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation, and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany..." - Valadimir Jabotinsky, in Mascha Rjetsch (January, 1934)


"I hope every German west of the Rhine River and wherever we attack, will be destroyed." - R.F. Keeling



Winston Churchill:


"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)


"Germany becomes to powerful. We have to crush it." - Winston Churchill (November 1936 to US-General Robert E. Wood)


"Germanys unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an own exchange system from which the world-finance couldnt profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig." - Winston Churchill, The second World War (Bern, 1960)


"The war wasnt only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didnt want to." -
Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)


"Should Germany merchandise again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain." - Winston Churchill in Times (1919)


"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany." - Winston Churchill (Autumn 1939 broadcast)


"Not the political doctrine of Hitler has hurled us into this war. The reason was the success of his increase in building a new economy. The roots of war were envy, greed and fear." - Major General J.F.C. Fuller, historian, England


"We didnt go to war in 1939 to save Germany from Hitler...or the continent from fascism. Like in 1914 we went to war for the not lesser noble cause that we couldnt accept a German hegemony over Europe." - Sunday Correspondent, London (17.9.1989)


"Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other." - Lord Halifax, English embassador in Washington (1939)


"The enemy is the German Reich and not Nazism, and those who still havent understood this, havent understood anything." - Churchills chief counselor Robert Lord Vansittart (September 1940 to foreign minister Lord Halifax)


"It will be the Polish army that will invade Germany on the first day of war." - The Polish embassador in Paris (15.8.1939)


"I will crunch Germany." - Roosevelt 1932(!)


"What we didnt want to comprehend in the German (anti-Hitler) resistance during war, we learned completely afterwards: this war wasnt led against Hitler but against Germany." - Eugen Gerstenmaier, President of the German Bundestag since 1954, member of the resistance group "Bekennende Kirche" during WW2


"Hitler and the German people didnt want this war. We didnt answer Hitlers various petitions for peace. Now we have to admit that he was right. Instead of a cooperation with Germany, which he had offered us, now stands the gigantic, imperialistic might of the Sovjets. I feel ashamed to see how the same intentions which we accused Hitler of now are pursued under a different name." - Sir Hartley Shawcross, British chief-accuser in Nuerenberg


"We made a monster, a devil out of Hitler. Therefore we couldnt disavow it after the war. After all, we mobilized the masses against the devil himself. So we were forced to play our part in this diabolic scenario after the war. In no way we could have pointed out to our people that the war only was an economic preventive measure." - US foreign minister Baker (1992)







"Will there be room for [the German refugees, fleeing before the Red army] in what is left of Germany? We have killed six or seven million Germans and probably there will be an other million or so killed before the end of the war." - Churchill, according to James F Byrnes' shorthand note of Plenary Session at Yalta, Feb. 7, 1945 (H S Truman Libr., Independence, Missouri).


"I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes." - Churchill, writing as president of the Air Council (1919)


"It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a campaign of civil disobedience, to parlay on equal terms with the representative of the Emperor-King." - Churchill, commenting on Gandhi's meeting with the Viceroy of India (1931)


"(We must rally against) a poisoned Russia, an infected Russia of armed hordes not only smiting with bayonet and cannon, but accompanied and preceded by swarms of typhus-bearing vermin." - Churchill, quoted in the Boston Review (April/May 2001)


"So far as Britain and Russia were concerned, how would it do for you to have 90% of Romania, for us to have 90% of the say in Greece, and go 50/50 about Yugoslavia?" - Churchill, addressing Stalin in Moscow (October 1944)


"This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)... this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the19 th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." - Writing on 'Zionism versus Bolshevism' in the Illustrated Sunday Herald (February 1920)


"Kill, kill, you brave Red Army soldiers, kill. There is nothing in the Germans that is innocent. Obey the instructions of comrade Stalin and stamp the fascistic beast in its cave. Break with force the racial arrogance of the Germanic women. Take them as your legal loot. Kill, you brave soldiers of the Red Army, kill!" - Ilya Ehrenburg Stalin's Jewish propagandist for genocide (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Frankfurt, February 28, 1995 - page 7)


"There can be no doubt: National Socialism was part of a modernisation process in German society. It expedited the social changes in Germany. It transferred more to the underprivileged segments of society and brought equality and emancipation to women." - Heinz Hoehne, Gebt mir vier Jahre Zeit [Give me four Years], Ullstein Publishing House, Berlin-Frankfurt 1996, p. 10)


"It is not the Germany of the first decade that followed the war - broken, dejected and bowed down with a sense of apprehension and impotence. It is now full of hope and confidence, and of a renewed sense of determination to lead its own life without interference from any influence outside its own frontiers. One man has accomplished this miracle. He is a born leader of men. A magnetic and dynamic personality with a single-minded purpose, a resolute will and a dauntless heart." - David Lloyd George (Ex-Prime Minister, UK), in the Daily Express (Sep. 17, 1936)


"Without the holocaust we would not have a Jewish state." - Robert B. Goldmann in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (Dec. 19, 1997, p. 9)


Poland


"The minorities in Poland are supposed to disappear. The Polish policy makes sure that they dont only disappear on the paper. This policy is ruthlessly established and without any attention to the public opinion of the world, of international contracts or the League of Nations. The Ukraine turned to hell under Polish rule. One can say this about Belorussia with even more right. The purpose of the Polish policy is the disappearance of the national minorities on the paper and in reality." - Manchester Guardian (14th December 1931)


"East Prussia is unquestionable German territory. Since my childhood this is my opinon which didnt need the affirmation by a plebiscite. And that this is my opinion you may tell your East Prussians in a public gathering in Knigsberg for reassurance." - The president of the Polish state and Marshall Josef Pilsudski who mysteriously lost his life in the 1930s, to the German foreign minister Gustav Stresemann (10th December 1927)


"The Polish terror in the Ukraine today is worse than anything else in Europe. Ukraine became a country of desperation and destruction. The murderous deeds multiplied. The Germans have been tortured, mutilated, excruciated to death, their corpses were desecrated. Villages and palaces have been robbed, ignited, blown up. The depicted incidents in the official publication of the German government in 1921 exceed the worst actions one can imagine." - Prof. Dr. Ren Martel in his book, Les frontires orientales de l`Allemagne (Paris 1930) about the Polish raids in Upper Silesia in 1921.


"We know that the war between Poland and Germany cant be prevented. We have to systematically and energetically prepare ourselves for this war. The present generation will see that a new victory at Grunwald will be written into historys pages. But we will battle out this Grunwald in the suburbs of Berlin. Our ideal is to chamfer Poland with borders along the Oder in the west and the Neie at Lausitz and to absorb Prussia from Pregel to the Spree. In this war no prisoners will be made, there will be no place for humanitarian feelings." - The censored, and closely to the Polish military dictatorship related newspaper Mosarstwowiecz (1930), three years before Hitler came to power.


"We are ready to make a contract with the devil if he helps us fighting against Hitler. Listen: against Germany not only against Hitler. The German blood will be spilled in a future war in such streams like it wasnt seen since the beginning of the world." - Warsaw newspaper Depesza (20.August 1939)


"We are ready for any war, even with the strongest opponent..." - Polska Zbrojna (25. Mrz 1939), quoted in Walendy, Historische Tatsachen, a.a.O. (Heft 39, S. 16)


"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it, even if it wants to." - Rydz-Smigly, Chief inspector of the Polish army in a public speech in front of Polish officiers (Summer 1939)


Britain/Churchill:


"The Air Ministry agreed that it was most useful to be able to use gas on less sophisticated enemies who would have no idea from where the danger they faced came. The use of gas was banned by the 1925 Geneva protocol." - The Daily Telegraph (January 3, 1997)


"Perhaps the next time round the way to do it will be to kill women, children and the civilian population." - Churchill, quoted during the First World War


"Previously it appeared to me to be a just answer to the crimes of the Third Reich, but I've since changed my mind. Until the Second World War there was a common consensus that the massacre of civilian populations was illegal." - Jrg Friedrich, historian


"I am, of course, a Zionist, and have been ever since the Balfour Declaration." - Churchill quoted in The Official Churchill in One Volume, N.Y. Times (Nov. 6, 1991) by Herbert Mitgang



Eisenhower on German war prisoners:

"God, I hate the Germans..." - Dwight David Eisenhower in a letter to his wife (September, 1944)


"Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts." - Dwight David Eisenhower


"Under no circumstances may food supplies be assembled among the local inhabitants in order to deliver them to prisoners of war. Those who violate this command and nevertheless try to circumvent this blockade to allow something to come to the prisoners place themselves in danger of being shot."- Dwight David Eisenhower


"For years we have blamed the 1.7 million missing German POW's on the Russians. Until now, no one dug too deeply ... Witnesses and survivors have been interviewed by the author; one Allied officer compared the American camps to Buchenwald." - Peter Worthington, Ottawa Sun (September 12, 1989)


"Starting in April 1945, the United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything in American history . . . an enormous war crime." - Col. Ernest F. Fisher, PhD Lt., 101 st Airborne Division, Senior Historian, United States Army


"My protests (regarding treatment of the German DEF'S) were met with hostility or indifference, and when I threw our ample rations to them over the barbed wire. I was threatened, making it clear that it was our deliberate policy not to adequately feed them." - Martin Brech, ex-Private First Class, in Company C of the 14th Infantry, assigned as a guard and interpreter at the Eisenhower Death Camp at Andernach, along the Rhine River


"When they caught me throwing C- Rations over the fence, they threatened me with imprisonment. One Captain told me that he would shoot me if he saw me again tossing food to the Germans ... Some of the men were really only boys13 years of age...Some of the prisoners were old men drafted by Hitler in his last ditch stand ... I understand that average weight of the prisoners at Andernach was 90 pounds...I have received threats ... Nevertheless, this...has liberated me, for I may now be heard when I relate the horrible atrocity I witnessed as a prison guard for one of 'Ike's death camps' along the Rhine."

"At first, the women from the nearby town brought food into the camp. The American soldiers took everything away from the women, threw it in a heap and poured gasoline over it and burned it." - Former camp prisoner.


"Many a sane American family would recoil in horror if they knew how 'Our Boys' conduct themselves, with such complete callousness in human relationships over here." - A serviceman, the TIME Magazine (November 12, 1945)


"Starting in April 1945, the United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequaled by anything in American history . . . an enormous war crime." - Col. Ernest F. Fisher, PhD Lt. 101st Airborne Division, Senior Historian, United States Army.The Morgenthau Plan:

"I further urged the point that by taking south-western Germany we were in a more congenial part of Germany and further away from the dirty work that the Russians might be doing with the Prussians in Eastern Germany. I was inclined to think that I had made an impression on him, but it was impossible to say. I either then or in my former meeting pressed on him the importance of not partitioning Germany other than the allotment of East Prussia to Russia or Poland, and Alsace Lorraine to France and a possible allotment of Silesia to Poland, namely trimming the outer edges of Germany. Other than those allotments I feared that a division of Germany and a policy which would prevent her from being industrialised would starve her excess population of 30 million people, giving again my description of how she had grown during the period between 1870 and 1914 by virtue of her industrialisation..." - Diary of Henry Stimmson, (August 25, 1944)


"Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there during the 30-year War." - Das Morgenthau-Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Dairy (p. 11)


"The Morgenthau Plan for Germany ... became part of the Potsdam Agreement, a solemn declaration of policy and undertaking for action ... signed by the United States of America, Great Britain and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics." - New York Post (Nov. 24, 1947)


Allied war crimes:

"At the edge of town, on the left side of the road, stands the large inn 'Weisser Krug' ... In the farmyard further down the road stood a cart, to which four naked women were nailed through their hands in a cruciform position. Behind the Weisser Krug towards Gumbinnen is a square with a monument to the Unknown Soldier. Beyond is another large inn, 'Roter Krug'. Near it, parallel to the road, stood a barn and to each of its two doors a naked woman was nailed through the hands, in a crucified posture. In the dwellings, we found a total of seventy-two women, including children, and one old man, 74, all dead ... all murdered in a bestial manner, except only for a few who had bullet holes in their necks. Some babies had their heads bashed in. In one room we found a woman, 84 years old, sitting on a sofa ... half of whose head had been sheared off with an axe or a spade ... We carried the corpses to the village cemetary where they lay to await a foreign medical commission ... In the meantime, a nurse from Insterburg came, a native of Nemmersdorf, who looked for her parents. Among the corpses were her mother, 72, and her father, 74, the only man among the dead. She also established that all the dead were Nemmersdorfers. On the fourth day the bodies were buried in two graves. Only on the following day did the medical commission arrive, and the tombs had to be reopened. Barn doors were set on blocks on which to lay the bodies so that the commission could examine them. This foreign commission unanimously established that all the women, as well as the girls from eight to twelve years and even the woman of 84 years had been raped. After the examination by the commission, the bodies were again buried." - Karl Potrek's report, a civilian from the capital city of Knigsberg, recruited into the Volksturm.


"They were all exhausted and starved and miserable ... A child only half alive ... A woman in the most terrible picture of despair I've seen ... Even when you see it, it's impossible to believe ... God it was terrible." - Robert Allen, Letter from Berlin, Reading magazine (February, 1946)


"When we reached Metgethen, we were confronted with a gruesome sight: We found several hundred dead German soldiers, many of whom had been disfigured beyond recognition. There were murdered civilians in just about every home, likewise disfigured in a most bestial manner. For example, some women had their breasts cut off, and in backyard gardens we found scarcely clad women who had been hanged upside down. In one house we came across a 63-year-old woman still alive. Crying, she told us that she had been raped by 12 to 15 Russians. She lay on the floor covered in blood. This old woman's daughter had escaped into the forest nearby, but her one-year-old child was abducted by the Russians. In the streets of Metgethen, and also at the railroad station, we found approximately15 baby carriages, some overturned, all empty. We concluded that this meant the Russians had also abducted these babies." - Horst A., at the time a driver for the Intelligence Reserve Detachment I, Knigsberg.


Jews:

"Its our task to mercilessly declare war to Germany, the public enemy number one." - Bernhard Lecache, President of the Jewish World League (9. November 1938)


"Our Jewish interests demand the final destruction of Germany." - W. Jabotinski, founder of "Irgun Zwai Leumi" (January 1934)


"Hitler doesnt want war but he will be forced to it, and in fact soon. England has the final say like in 1914." - Zionist Emil Ludwig Cohn "Annalen"


"Although Hitler may want to prevent this war, which can devour him, in the last moment, he will be forced to war anyway." - Emil Ludwig Cohn (1938)


"I asked Joe Kennedy (US embassador in London) about his talks with Roosevelt and N. Chamberlain in 1938. He said it had been Chamberlains belief in 1939 that Great Britain has nothing in its hands to fight and therefore wouldnt dare to go to war against Hitler...Neither the French nor the English would have made Poland a motive for war if they hadnt been continuously spurred on by Washington...America and the World-Jewry have driven England to war." - US defence minister J. Forrestal 27.12.1945 in his diary (The Forrestal Diaries, New York, 1951, S. 121 ff)


"We managed to drag the United States into the First World War and if they (the US) do what we demand in regards to Palestine and the Jewish armed forces, then we can get the Jews in the USA to drag the United States into this one (the Second World War) too." - Weizmann to Chuchill (September 1941)


"We won this war with atrocity propaganda...and now we will start more than ever! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will increase it until nobody will accept one good word from the Germans anymore, until everything is destroyed which might have upheld them sympathies in other countries, and until they will be so confused that they dont know what to do anymore. When this is reached, when they begin to pollute their own nest, and this not reluctantly but with hasty willingness to obey the winners, only then the victory is complete. It will never be definite. The reeducation demands thorough, steadfast nurture like English lawn. Only one moment of inattention and the weed will break through, this ineradicable weed of historic truth." - Sefton Delmer, former British chief propagandist after the capitulation in 1945 to the German expert on international law Prof. Grimm.


"When the National Socialists and their friends cry or whisper that this [the war] is brought about by Jews, they are perfectly right." - The Jewish magazine Sentinel of Chicago (8 October 1940)


"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community at each conference in all our syndicates and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will start a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand Germany's total destruction, collectively and individually. The German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of the Irgun Zvai Leumi terrorist organisation, Mascha Rjetach(January 1934)


"Even if Hitler at the last moment would want to avoid war which would destroy him he will, in spite of his wishes, be compelled to wage war." - Emil Ludwig Cohen in his book The New Holy Alliance( Strasburg, 1938)


"It is our task to organise the moral and cultural blockade of Germany and disperse this nation. It is up to us to start a merciless war." - Bernard Lechache in The Right to Live (December 1938)


"The millions of Jews living in America, England, France, North Africa and South, not forgetting Palestine, have decided to carry on the war in Germany to the very end. It is to be a war of extermination." - 'The Jewish newspaper Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederlands (13 September 1939)



"It was the World Jewish Congress that saw to it that the Nuremberg Trials were held, for which it supplied experienced advice and most valuable evidence - and it was the World Jewish Congress that had such far-reaching connections during the war that these extended even into the German Foreign Office, and that it received information even long before the British Secret Service received it." - Maurice Perlzweig, Chief of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress, said in an address in Langside Hall in London on November27, 1949, Jewish Chronicle, London (December 16, 1949. Quoted in: UN, 8/83 p. 4.)


"The Jewish World Congress has been at perpetual war with Germany for seven years." - Maurice Perlzweig, Chief of the British Section of the World Jewish CongressFebruary 26, 1940, in an address according to the Toronto Evening Telegram, quoted by Dr. Hans Riegelmann in: UN, 8/83, p. 4.


"The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany. Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily Express (March 24, 1933)


"Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here. It is not sufficient that you should buy no goods made in Germany. You must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronises German ships or shipping.... we will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends." - Samuel Undermeyer, in a Radio Broadcast on WABC, New York (August 6, 1933, reported in the New York Times, August 7, 1933)


"Joining with Samuel Untermeyer in calling for a war against Germany, Bernard Baruch, at the same time, was promoting preparations for war against Germany. 'I emphasised that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit.'" - Baruch, The Public Years, by Bernard M. Baruch (p.347)


[Samuel Untermeyer was a Jewish leader and close friend of presidents Wilson and Roosevelt.

Bernard Baruch was a presidential adviser to Wilson, Roosevelt and Truman.]



"This declaration called the war against Germany, which was now determined on, a 'holy war'. This war was to be carried out against Germany to its conclusion, to her destruction". - Dr. Franz J. Scheidl, Geschichte der Verfemung Deutschlands


"War in Europe in 1934 was inevitable." - H. Morgenthau, Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Hearst Press, September, 1933 (also quoted in The Palestine Plot by B. Jenson, p. 11).

"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in Histoire de l'Arme Allemande by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).


"Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon." - Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book The New Holy Alliance).


"We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany." - David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in I Testify Against The Jews by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and The Jewish War of Survival by Arnold Leese, page 52)


"We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win." - Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.


"There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." - Vladimir Jabotinsky in Jewish Daily Bulletin (July 27, 1935)


"Before the end of the year, an economic bloc of England, Russia, France and the U.S.A will be formed to bring the German and Italian economic systems to their knees." - Paul Dreyfus, La Vie de Tanger (May 15, 1938)


"On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these "three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell." - Joseph Trimble, The American Hebrew.


"Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!" - Bernard Lecache, the president of the "International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism," in its newspaper Droit de Vivre (Right to Life) (9 November, 1938)


"The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world." - Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune (March 29, 1939)


"I wish to confirm in the most explicit manner, the declaration which I and my colleagues made during the last months, and especially in the last week: that the Jews "stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies." Our urgent desire is to give effect to these declarations. We wish to do so in a way entirely consonant with the general scheme of British action, and therefore would place ourselves, in matters big and small, under the co-ordinating direction of His Majesty's Government. The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources, etc." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, the London Times, September 5, 1939, and the London Jewish Chronicle, September 8, 1939.


"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." - Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland (September 13, 1939)


"Stop talking about peace conditions! Break Germany in pieces!" - The Daily Herald, No.7426 (9 December, 1939)


"The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939, quoted in Reichstagsbrand, Au**lrung einer historischen Legende, by U. Backes, K.H.Janen, E.Jesse, H.Khler, H.Mommsen, E.Tobias.


"Even if we Jews are not physically at your side in the trenches, we are morally with you. This war is our war and you fight it with us." - Schalom Asch, Les Nouvelles Litteraires (February 10, 1940)


"In losing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it exerted power. Therefore it was determined to reconquer it." - Louis Marschalko, The World Conquerors : The Real War Criminals


"The World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years." - Rabbi M. Perlzweig (head of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress), Toronto Evening Telegram (February 26, 1940)


"The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." - Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel (October 8, 1942)


"We are not denying and are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry... Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December3, 1942, in New York.


"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America." - Adolf Hitler (April 1945)


"Played golf with Joe Kennedy (U.S. Ambassador to Britain). He says that Chamberlain stated that America and world Jewry forced England into World War II." - James Forrestal, Secretary of the Navy (later Secretary of Defense), Diary, December 27, 1945 entry.Back to top



Addenda= Diaries of James V. Forrestal, 1944-1949, Secretary of the Navy, 1944-1947, and First Secretary of Defence, 1947-1949 Complete and unexpurgated diaries from the Seeley G. Mudd Manuscript Library, Princeton University.
Author: James Forrestal; Seeley G. Mudd Manuscript Library.; Adam Matthew Publications.
Publisher: Marlborough [Wilts., Eng.] : Adam Matthew, 2001.
Edition/Format: Article : Microfilm : Master microform : English : View all editions and formats

Rating: (not yet rated)0 with reviews - Be the first



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Hektor]

Just imagine what bearing the 10.000 a day figure on body disposal logistics has. Consider the tiny lifts in Krema II/III to be used to get the corpses from the "gas chamber" to the furnaces.

[SevenUp]

The OP is a great post indeed, and my congratulations to the originator, it'd be interesting to know who it is.

But, 10,000 a day at huge camp like Auschwitz is nothing. The Nazis also cremated 10,000 to 12,000 a day at the small camp at Treblinka, staffed with 20 Nazis and 100 Ukrainians, as per Yankel Wiernik's 'A Year in Treblinka',

pg 30
The cremation of the corpses proved a complete success. The Germans build additional firegrates and augmented the crews serving them, so that 10 to 12 thousand corpses could be cremated at one time.

[Hans]

I fail to see what is particular great with this posting. As I already pointed out in this thread more than 8 years ago:

Snafu, there are several problems with your post. First of all, I'm convinced that two of your 7 quotations, Höß via Gilbert and Höß via Eichmann, have not spoke[n] about crematoria capacity, but about extermination capacity, that means including the capacity of the gas chambers and burning pits. Further, three other testimonies, the Report by the Soviet War Crimes Commission, Rudolf Vrba and perhaps Miklos Nyiszli, have made a projection with data given to them by stokers from the Sonderkommando. They do not provide any own information, therefore we must ignore these three for the convergence of evidence.
The only two sources for the 10.000 claim that remain are Filip Müller and Franke-Gricksch. It is not difficult to determine where this figure comes from. According to Müller the Sonderkommando had to introduce 3 corpses into each oven every 20 min. This makes 9 per hour or 216 in 24 hours per oven. Now, Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 crematoria ovens. 46 x 216 makes 9936. This calculation is without doubt the source for the figure 10.000 in Müller's and perhaps also Franke-Gricksch's account. Since the crematoria were usually not operational at the same time and since the ovens of crematorium IV and V were of poor quality, it is clear that this calcuation is theoretical and does not reflect the real cremation capacity of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

[...]

Snafu, this might be converging in your mind, but since I can name you at least seven witnesses who recalled a much lower capacity (6-8000) - Rudolf Höß, Paul Bendel, Wetzler/Vrba, Samuel Steinberg, Leon Cohen, Jacob Gabaai and last but not least the polish crematoria specialist for the Höß-trial, Roman Dawidowski - the cremation capacity is rather converging in a different direction.

[ps]

10000 Jews / day? This cannot be right. There are only two possibilities of an answer:

Either 0 Jews / day or 72000 Jews / day.

The right answer depends exclusively on the faith. If one holds it for possible that one has done the Jews in 1500°C hot gas chamber around them there with cyclone B to kill, one can maintain one in good conscience 72000 cremated Jews day. Then the cremation took place directly in the gas chamber within 10-15 minutes.

If one does not hold it, however, for possible that the Jews have gone to 1500°C hot gas chamber, arms only with towel and soap, one must also state that not a single one Jew can have died by cyclone B.

As a substitute one can fancy the gas chamber temperature in rare cases also on 600°C lowered, namely with 20 minutes of gasifications.

In between there is no possibility. Condition to the cremation of the Jews was always the gasification with cyclone B. If this gasification for which reasons has also not functioned always, there were also no Jews to cremate!

And then bread was baked just at the baker's and no Jews was cremated.

Hence, Germans should absolutely show a strong faith and themselves at Basic Law article. 4 appeal and prefer 72000 Jews / day.

Other should leave the answer of the question to the Exterministen whether they prefer the version that 72000 Jews / day were driven in to white-hot gas chambers or have fetched 72000 Jews a day her bread at the baker's.

[Hans]

ps, I'm slightly confused that the alleged "crematoria" were supposed to be bakeries. Because I always thought that at least the two smaller alleged "crematoria" were housing the world famous Auschwitz angora rabbit breed.

[ps]

In my last contribution I had only forgotten exceptionally to mention that I talk exclusively from both gas chambers of the crematories / baker's II + III in Auschwitz Birkenau. Because only there the Kula-wire mesh columns are testified.

The angora rabbit breeding took place of course in the other crematories IV + V.

[Hektor]

I'm sorry if this has been posted before, I've never seen it in my times here and if it has it deserves a re-post

Little background on AxisHistory, very well read Moderators who strictly enforce their rules against Holocaust Denial as they find they get enough hatemail by their name being AxisHistory Forums they don't want to confuse people even more by allowing Revisionists to roam the site. Anyways, from http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1609

Excerpt from the so called Franke-Gricksch Report, an original German document, claimed to have been produced by a certain SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Franke-Gricksch, on an inspection trip to the General Gouvernment, May 4-16, 1943 (first known reference, Charles W Sydnor, “The Soldiers of Destruction” (1977) p.3371):

Every once in awhile a post just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside I'm sure the originator of this post is well on his way to bannage. He took all those exterminationist posts and turned that 10,000 number they hold so dear against them, theres some irony.

So now this Convergence takes on a different meaning, which is quite obvious for most thinking people.

It should be noted that Nyiszli's 'testimony' can be found on the USSR-008 document, signed by Burdenko. Burdenkos 'authoriztion of authenticity' can also be found on USSR-054 describing the German massacre of Polish Prisoners at Katyn presented at Nuremberg (Eyewitnesses and all).

I'd have to add this to my list of most damning evidence, Convergence of the 10,000 number.

This may not directly relate to the "report" above, but some memorised protocol was mentioned at the Auschwitz trial:
It says there:

Dies gilt auch insbesondere für die Frage der »Endlösung der Judenfrage«. Dieser verbrecherische Befehl zur »Endlösung der Judenfrage« wurde von Adolf Hitler weitergegeben an Heinrich Himmler. Heinrich Himmler war sich der Gesetzwidrigkeit und der Rechtswidrigkeit dieses Befehls vollkommen bewußt. Er drückt das in einem von der Zeugin Franke-Gricksch überreichten Gedächtnisprotokoll wie folgt aus: »Dieser Befehl belastet uns als die Treuesten des Führers mit einer geschichtlichen Hypothek von ungeheurem Ausmaß. Ich kann mir vorstellen, daß wir durch diese Tat verleumdet und beschmutzt werden von Kräften, die nur die Tat sehen, nicht aber die zwingende Notwendigkeit zu diesem Tun. Sie erkennen nicht, daß wir die größten Vollstrecker eines Befehls sind, der unseren Orden immer mit dieser Tat in Verbindung bringen wird. Ich habe unter diesem Befehl sehr gelitten und weiß, ganz gleich, wie es kommt, was er für die SS bedeutet. Aber ich sehe auch in der Durchführung dieses Befehls einen Maßstab der Treue zum Führer, wie ihn keine andere Gliederung geben kann und geben will. « »Die Geheimhaltung ist in diesem Falle das Entscheidende, und ich bitte, auf dieses Moment ganz besonders hinzuweisen. Wir können heute diesen Schritt selbst dem Führerkorps der SS noch nicht geschichtlich begründen. Sie würden manches nicht verstehen und die Tatsachen an sich werten. Erst ein weiter Abstand zu diesen Dingen, vielleicht erst nach Jahrzehnten, vielleicht erst nach einer Zeit der schärfsten Diffamierung dieser Tat, wird den Standpunkt gewinnen, der für die Notwendigkeit dieser Aufgabe allein richtig ist. « 2
http://www.auschwitz-prozess.de/index.p ... ruendung_1

It's basically claimed that Franke-Gricksch dictated some text to his wife, which was kind of a speech of Heinrich Himmler about killing the Jews. Or that's at least what is insinuated. His wife claims she found the written text in her apartment a year before the Auschwitz trial.

If this explodes this thread I'll start one on it's own.

[Hannover]

nny:

Excerpt from the so called Franke-Gricksch Report, an original German document, claimed to have been produced by a certain SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Franke-Gricksch, on an inspection trip to the General Gouvernment, May 4-16, 1943 (first known reference, Charles W Sydnor, “The Soldiers of Destruction” (1977) p.3371):

“The corpses are then loaded into the elevators and are taken to the first floor. There are located ten large crematory ovens, in which the corpses are burned. (Because fresh corpses burn particularly well, the entire process requires only one-half to one Zentner [50 to 100 pounds] of coke). The work itself is carried out by Jewish prisoners who will never leave this camp.
The result so far of this "resettlement action": 500,000 Jews.
The present capacity of the "resettlement action" ovens: 10,000 in 24 hours”

The utter demolition of the so called 'Franke-Gricksch Report' here:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p261_Renk.html
The Franke-Gricksch 'Resettlement Action Report': Anatomy of a Fabrication
By Brian A. Renk

excerpt:

Conclusion
As we have shown, a careful examination of the available evidence shows that the "Resettlement Action" report attributed to Franke-Gricksch ("Umsiedlungs Aktion der Juden") is a postwar fabrication, most likely by Eric Lipman.

Even though this "report" is worthless as a document of historical importance, the way it has been handled and exploited by Exterminationist historians Gerald Fleming and Jean-Claude Pressac is revealing. In their frantic search for evidence to prove the Holocaust story, these historians have misrepresented, ignored or white-washed the clearly false assertions in the document's text, and ignored other evidence, including the suspiciously defective text itself, that indicates its fraudulent character.

Instead of calmly evaluating evidence, subjecting it to critical analysis, and then drawing conclusions from it, Fleming and Pressac have instead tried to portray the bogus "Resettlement Action" report as an authentic and credible document, exploiting it as "evidence" to "prove" a preconceived view. This technique, which by the most charitable interpretation might be called wish fulfillment, is precisely the opposite of how open-minded historians should go about their work.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent racist Jewish supremacists demand that there be no open debate.
Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[Otium]

How would one respond to Robertos comment here:

Well, here it is, the Jewish World Conspiracy, which not only manipulated the Franke-Gricksch Report, the statements of Höss at Nuremberg, Eichmann’s depositions and the testimonials of Tauber, Müller and Nyiszli, all given at different times and places and to different authorities, but also influenced all other depositions of Sonderkommando survivors, the writing of Rudolf Höss’ memoirs in Polish captivity with its much more realistic figures confirmed by posterior research and the depositions of Pery Broad and Johannes Paul Kremer and of 66 other witnesses from the ranks of the SS, 20 of them at the Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt between 1963 and 1965 alone, which also falsified the records of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Bauleitung analyzed by Pressac and von Pelt, especially those inconvenient memorandums, inventories, transfer deeds and work sheets that “Revisionists” would rather not talk about. Not to mention the transportation documents and camp records which show us that, for intance:

This is from the Axis thread.

What exactly is "inconvenient" about memorandums, inventories, and transfer deeds? I guess to summarize what he's saying, it would be that all these testimonies are true because they essentially confirm eachother. In the thread Robbie Rotten Roberto just ignores inconsistencies by inventing reasons why there are disparities between testimony. In regards to Hoess he just claims he wanted to "out do" the other camps to prove Auschwitz was the most proficient, and decided to brag about it at nuremberg or whatever. He claims that many of these reports and documents, the testimonies, will have false information but that it doesn't essentially make what they're saying wrong overall. That there's essentially a margin of error, and no documents or testimony will be 100% true because of how information is relayed through people. An example of this kind of thing would be:

Aha, so Franke-Gricksch said 10,000 dead bodies within 24 hours. Dead wrong he was, as historiography knows. An ideal or propaganda figure that was given to him by his guide when he toured Auschwitz-Birkenau for a day or two, or a misunderstanding on his part. Big deal.

and

Well, that statement is simply wrong, and the quotes my friend provided suggest that the mistake probably originated with Höss’ desire to make himself look more important to his superiors than he actually was.

another user in the thread says this:

As for as the document in question, its not like all historical documents are factual correct. In any reseach of any event in history, it is always best to check as many references as one can find.

I guess the question is, what margin of error can we expect testimonies and documents to have? And at what point do they become forgeries and also when can they be considered truthful? It seems somewhat, not entirely, subjective. That you can define it whatever way you want, as Roberto has, inventing plausible pet theories, or "possibilities" to explain why the documents he wants to use are legitimate.

The idea, from what I gather, is that Gricksch was given a false number to propagandize the effectiveness of the Extermination operation, therefore the orthodox historiography can revise the figures down without fear of undoing the entire narrative. So, there's a million and one excuses for all of these discrepancies.

- The Nazis exaggerated to Franke-Gricksch

- Hoess just wanted to make himself seem more important than he was

- Franke-Gricksche and Eichmann got all their information from Hoess

all of this seems unverifiable.

Roberto says:

Zero reason? I don’t think so. As a witness at the Nuremberg trials, Höss seems to have been proud to present himself as the pillar of the Final Solution and commander of the greatest killing center of all time, bathing in the limelight of his own monstrosity. When it was his turn to be judged, on the other hand, he gave a much more conservative and realistic figure to his Polish captors – 1,135,000 instead of the three million he had mentioned at Nuremberg, a figure that is in line with the posterior research of most historians and must have greatly annoyed the Poles, stuck as they were at the time to the four million figure produced by a Soviet commission.

How could one respond to this?

[Lamprecht]

How would one respond to Robertos comment here:

Well, here it is, the Jewish World Conspiracy

I don't know what he means by that phrase. Could he please define "Jewish World Conspiracy"?
You might just be wasting your time discussing something he imagines you believe exists when you actually do not even think it does. When people speak in such terms, they are usually referring to a straightforward, centrally-organized pseudo-government of elite Jews. Something like "The Protocols of Zion" or whatever, which I'm sure we all agree was not actually written by a group of Jewish elites. Critics or dishonest debaters will often try to invoke this fallacious strawman argument because they know it is useful tactic to deflect the argument away from what matters.

The Germans were invaded by the USSR on one hand and the Western Allies on the other hand. Both of these groups at the end of the war had great animosity towards the German people as many of their loved ones who invaded Europe never returned. The atrocity propaganda, including but not limited to homicidal gas chambers, was already widely circulating in the Western press years before the war had ended. Various "reports" ranging from dubious or outrageous to preposterous were written. This was just as much a part of the war as bombs and bullets. During the war, officials in the various governments remarked that they did not find these "gas chamber" stories credible. WW1 had a lot of that nonsense and people remembered that the allegations were nothing but lies.

Nevertheless, what we know is that the USA, the British, the USSR, and many other governments did in fact launch a "Conspiracy" to invade and conquer Germany. And after they did that, they orchestrated post-war show trials which have since been criticized by numerous legal experts throughout the world. I have compiled a number of quotes in the Nuremberg thread that is stickied at the top of this forum discussing this.

In the USA there was a man named Thomas J. Dodd, who was both a senator and diplomat. Eventually he became a prosecutor at Nuremberg. His son went on to become a US senator as well and even tried unsuccessfully to run for president. Tom Dodd's son wrote a book, entitled "Letters from Nuremberg" which includes a multitude of the letters he wrote in 1945-46 to his wife while he was abroad, mostly in Germany, as a top prosecutor in the Allied war crimes trials.

During September 1945, Thomas J. Dodd wrote:

"You know how I have despised anti-Semitism. You know how strongly I feel toward those who preach intolerance of any kind. With that knowledge -- you will understand when I tell you that this staff is about seventy-five percent Jewish. Now my point is that the Jews should stay away from this trial -- for their own sake.
"For -- mark this well -- the charge 'a war for the Jews' is still being made and in the post-war years it will be made again and again.
"The too large percentage of Jewish men and women here will be cited as proof of this charge. Sometimes it seems that the Jews will never learn about these things. They seem intent on bringing new difficulties down on their own heads. I do not like to write about this matter -- it is distasteful to me -- but I am disturbed about it. They are pushing and crowding and competing with each other and with everyone else."

- "Letters from Nuremberg: My Father's Narrative of a Quest for Justice"
http://archive.vn/W5CuD or http://web.archive.org/web/202005300056 ... berg-dodd/

What this Roberto character is also doing is inverting the hierarchy of evidence, relying on that which can (and has) been fabricated even when a consensus cannot be produced. Party testimony is the weakest form of evidence.
He can list testimonies of Jews being gassed, and one may counter with testimonies stating "yet I was there and they were not!" but without a time machine how can we see?

The exterminationist position is that there is definitive evidence for the "Holocaust" -- millions of pounds of physical evidence in fact; giant pits full of rotting corpses were supposedly dug up during a war, then the corpses roasted in giant pyres only to be re-dumped into these same huge pits. So where are the pits full of this massive quantity of physical evidence? Supposedly they are in exactly known locations which could theoretically be excavated and exhumed tomorrow, or next year, or in a century!

I believe this is why I have been hearing more and more ((such as in the BBC documentary) that millions of Jews were grounded up into powder and mixed with soil all over the place to make fertilizer.

[Hannover]

FYI,
The mentioned Roberto has been demolished at this forum:

The Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp posts more fake 'holocaust' photos / Babi Yar
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11315
and:
The Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp's 'corpse hauling Treblinka excavator' / Seriously?
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11262
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp and 'The Industry' say millions of Jew bones were ground up in 'bone mill'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11263
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp & 'Holocaust' Industry cite incinerator patent application as proof of impossible cremation numbers
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11266
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp challenged on his claim of 'crime site investigations' for Belzec & Treblinka
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11277
and:
Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp cites debunked liar Henryk Tauber as proof of Auschwitz 'gas chambers' !!
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11279
and:
spokesman Roberto Muehlenkamp says "confessions" of Kurt Gerstein proves 'holocaust' / seriously?
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11282
and:
Holocaust Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp says "eyewitness" Bendel is proof of 'holocaust'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11297
and:
'Holocaust Industy's' Roberto Muehlenkamp cites Yankel Wiernik as proof of extermination of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka !!
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11271
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11284
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp & his Holocaust Industry say "eyewitness" Bennahmias is proof of 'holocaust' / Yes they do.
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11308
and:
Carlo Mattogno demolishes Roberto 'sardine pack' Muehlenkamp & those like him.
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11322
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp claims 'Heinrich May Report on Chelmno' / So let's see it.
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11324
and:
Roberto Muehlenkamp & the Indu$try's bizarre photo claim of alleged massive Chelmno human remains
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11333
and:
"Holocaust Industry's" Roberto Muehlenkamp sees thousands of dead Jews where there are none at Semeliškes
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11344
and:
Industry's Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345
and:
note to Roberto on claimed 'Hydrokop' report
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11230
and:
Paid 'holocaust' Enforcer & Promoter Roberto Muehlenkamp believes liar Filip Mueller proves the 'holocau$t'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11350

Roberto and his "Holocau$t Industry" in court:
'Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, ... but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.