Typical nature of Holocaust 'facts'

[Moderator]

Max:
Clean it up. No personal attacks.

Thanks, Moderator

[max]

Here's a little more for you to consider when you return -

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/aktion ... z-001.html

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the gas chambers...

Work Cited

Klee, E., W. Dressen, V. Riess. The Good Old Days, New York: The Free Press, 1988


So we see that everything was all on one continuous plot of land and seperated by nothing more than a fence, so it says.

No. This is not what Mentz said. This is what you falsely claim because you don't know what Mentz is talking about. The "two parts" are not Treblinka I and Treblinka II, but the upper part and the rest of _Treblinka II_.

Now where did the two accounts take place?

One took place in Treblinka II, the other in Treblinka I or Malkinia.

Max, what is there to refute?

There is nothing you can refute. You are simply wrong. Sachar's account is not about "The 'extermination' camp Treblinka" being "still in operation when the Russians took over" (TMoran). And on the other side, Arad's paper is about Treblinka II - and not the whole complex.
Both accounts are about two different things.

[TMoran]

As to this retrieval I got from Nizkor that more less designates and defines two Treblinkas:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/aktion ... z-001.html

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the gas chambers...

Work Cited

Klee, E., W. Dressen, V. Riess. The Good Old Days, New York: The Free Press, 1988

I said:
So we see that everything was all on one continuous plot of land and separated by nothing more than a fence, so it says.

Max says:
"No. This is not what Mentz said. This is what you falsely claim because you don't know what Mentz is talking about. The "two parts" are not Treblinka I and Treblinka II, but the upper part and the rest of _Treblinka II_."


Max, if it's not what Mentz said then you better take it up with Nizkor since all I did was cut and paste it. As to anything else it's nothing more than your special interpretation.

Finally I had to ask Max straight out:
Now where did the two accounts take place?

Max says:
"One took place in Treblinka II, the other in Treblinka I or Malkinia."

Okay Max. Not to mean 'Okay' you are correct but 'Okay, now that you have said that you say that Sachar's account with all the loaded trains and devices for torture were found at Malkinia? And where else would we get such a thing other than from Sachar. After all, we see in Sachar's account that the Russians found all this stuff, including records and all and yet there isn't anything on it in any other Holocaust literature? Wouldn't you think photos and a full report would be available, what with the Russians right there amid all the existing horror and all?

Also Max, can you present any other source, besides yourself, that would tell us that Malkinia was Treblinka I or II?

Thanks,
TMoran

[max]

Max, if it's not what Mentz said then you better take it up with Nizkor since all I did was cut and paste it. As to anything else it's nothing more than your special interpretation.

But Nizkor doesn't claim there what you falsely claim here!

And this is not my "special interpretation", but simply the location and internal arrangement of Treblinka II according to map and description in Kogon Massentötungen and Adalbert Rückerl NS-Vernichtungslager.

Okay Max. Not to mean 'Okay' you are correct but 'Okay, now that you have said that you say that Sachar's account with all the loaded trains and devices for torture were found at Malkinia?

I have not said that Sachar's account took place in Malkinia. I've said "Treblinka I or Malkinia". This is not the same as simply "Malkinia", apparently!

And where else would we get such a thing other than from Sachar. After all, we see in Sachar's account that the Russians found all this stuff, including records and all and yet there isn't anything on it in any other Holocaust literature? Wouldn't you think photos and a full report would be available, what with the Russians right there amid all the existing horror and all?

As I wrote already at the beginning, I do not consider the details in Sachar's accounts very likely and accurate.

Also Max, can you present any other source, besides yourself, that would tell us that Malkinia was Treblinka I or II?

I've never said that Malkinia was Treblinka I or II.

[TMoran]

Now Max simply returns to say one of the accounts is bull:
"As I wrote already at the beginning, I do not consider the details in Sachar's accounts very likely and accurate."

Actually Max I think the record shows that you have gone through a lot of agony trying to explain the two different accounts and now here you are saying that one of them is "very" unlikely.

Either way Max, it's been fun.

[Scott]

At this point I don't know if Sachar is talking about Malkinia, Malkinia station, Treblinka, Treblinka station, Treblinka I (the gravel quarry and labor camp located 1.3 km from TII), or Treblinka II itself which was divided into two clean/dirty zones connected by "the tube" for processing either executions or perhaps for delousing.

[TMoran]

Scott says:
"At this point I don't know if Sachar is talking about Malkinia, Malkinia station, Treblinka, Treblinka station, Treblinka I (the gravel quarry and labor camp located 1.3 km from TII), or Treblinka II itself which was divided into two clean/dirty zones connected by "the tube" for processing either executions or perhaps for delousing."



The Malkinia camp can be seen off in the distance from Treblinka in the aerial recon shot taken by the Germans in Nov. 44 which was found by John Ball in the U.S. Archives.

Any talk of mass exterminations by either Sachar or Arad would be in regard to what is said to have happened at the yellow area in the map you have.

The "tube" is said to have been from where the Jews were taken off the train and processed to the immediate gas chamber and cremation area within that location itself.

[Moderator]

Maybe I should have watched this thread a little closer, but it's gotten out of hand. I won't state who I think is to blame, but I certainly hope that such obfuscation and lack of specific, genuine debate does not occur again.
I've locked this thread.

Moderator