Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

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Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Waldgänger » 9 months 1 week ago (Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:16 am)

I was just reading some Wikipedia propaganda to get the mainstream account of something, and came across this statement:

He was one of the SS doctors responsible for supervising the administration of Zyklon B, the cyanide-based pesticide that was used for the mass killings in the Birkenau gas chambers. He served in this capacity at the gas chambers located in crematoria IV and V.38


38 refers to Piper, Franciszek (1998) [1994]. "Gas Chambers and Crematoria". In Gutman, Yisrael; Berenbaum, Michael (eds.). Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. Bloomington, Indiana: Indiana University Press. pp. 157–182.

Has anyone seen this claim before? All Mengele is usually said to have done is participated in selections on the ramp, and overseen the hospital "experimentations". Eyewitnesses, rumour-mongers, and Sonderkommando liars never mention him actually overseeing gassings, never mind specifically at Krema 4/5. When did this accusation first arise? Has anyone dealt with this specifically?

I wish so badly that this much-maligned man had survived to see trial in the 1980s, his documents carefully preserved to avoid tampering, and thus proceeding to make an absolute mockery of all the myths and lies heaped on his apparently excellent character.

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Lamprecht » 9 months 6 days ago (Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:24 am)

Waldgänger wrote:Has anyone seen this claim before? All Mengele is usually said to have done is participated in selections on the ramp, and overseen the hospital "experimentations". Eyewitnesses, rumour-mongers, and Sonderkommando liars never mention him actually overseeing gassings, never mind specifically at Krema 4/5. When did this accusation first arise? Has anyone dealt with this specifically?

Mengele apparently did just about everything, including impossible feats of being in multiple places at the same time. A large chunk of the testimonies of former Jewish Auschwitz inmates contain some story about him. He was a boogeyman.
Undoubtedly, the story of him watching the gassings was something he did for entertainment, complete with popcorn :roll:

Search the forum for examples:
search.php?keywords=mengele&t=7033&sf=msgonly
search.php?keywords=mengele

"The Mengele of the title is needless to say Josef Mengele, the most vilified doctor in human history. Countless former Auschwitz inmates have horror stories to tell about him, one more outlandish than the other. Reading the claims about Mengele from different sources, one gains the impression that the man had the ability of omnipresence. Rather than devoting time to eradicating the typhus epidemics which several times plagued the Auschwitz camp complex, causing tens of thousands of deaths and endangering inmate population as well as staff, Mengele is alleged to have been busy injecting dye into eyeballs, performing experiments on twins (according to the witness Vera Alexander’s testimony at the Eichmann trial, a pair of Gypsy twins had the veins of their arms and their backs sewn together), indulging in cruel and bizarre acts of surgery and transplantation, and, of course, selecting Jews for the gas chambers. Posner does not waste any ink discussing the reliability of the allegations leveled at Mengele by former inmates. “The barbarity of his crimes is not in doubt” he writes with confidence."

- Thomas Kues, "Mengele: The Complete Story"

Also see:
Josef Mengele – the Creation of a Myth
https://codoh.com/library/document/jose ... a-myth/en/
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Fred zz » 9 months 6 days ago (Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:56 am)

Here is the claimed kill process at 4 and 5 Birkenau, Your thoughts?
See attachment
Attachments
aus chrem 4 from air.JPG
History is never a one-sided story.

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Lamprecht » 9 months 6 days ago (Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:42 am)

Fred zz wrote:Here is the claimed kill process at 4 and 5 Birkenau, Your thoughts?
See attachment

At least that one didn't have a ridiculous, manually-operated elevator where hundreds of thousands had to be pulled up to the next story like Kremas 2 and 3 :roll:

Image

Read more:
Auschwitz Krema II: The elevator / chute / lift - was it ever replaced/improved?
viewtopic.php?t=12891
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Waldgänger » 9 months 6 days ago (Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:24 pm)

Lamprecht, the "whistling Mozart and Wagner" propaganda was already a sick joke, but the idea that he gleefully watched gassings is too much. Every single storyteller has him on the ramp: tall, blonde, aryan -- except he was middle height, brown hair, etc. He has become a mythological babylonian demon of the night or deep waters. The howl of Shabriri, the blinding desert demon. Yahweh is written all over this motivation, this legend. It's an insult to the medical profession, to say that one of its best upholders of the Hippocratic Oath is treated as a devilish murderer who did nothing with his time but vain experiments. Boils my blood.

Fred zz, I recently learned about the alleged process in Krema 4-5. It is the most ridiculous one. Marching back and forth, dragging heavy dead bodies back and forth, heating furnacs in gas chambers despite combustive gasses, the absurd ventilation, the danger to the SS man throwing the Zyklon B in, etc.

The tiny elevator in K2/K3 is very cartoonish but the 4-5 process is an imposition on reason that is really angering. It is very patronising, that the peddlers of lies think this is believable by most people... but they rely on the actual lack of interest and unawareness of normal people, who don't have the time or inclination to read about these things.

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Fred zz » 9 months 5 days ago (Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:21 am)

Waldgänger wrote:Lamprecht, the "whistling Mozart and Wagner" propaganda was already a sick joke, but the idea that he gleefully watched gassings is too much. Every single storyteller has him on the ramp: tall, blonde, aryan -- except he was middle height, brown hair, etc. He has become a mythological babylonian demon of the night or deep waters. The howl of Shabriri, the blinding desert demon. Yahweh is written all over this motivation, this legend. It's an insult to the medical profession, to say that one of its best upholders of the Hippocratic Oath is treated as a devilish murderer who did nothing with his time but vain experiments. Boils my blood.

Fred zz, I recently learned about the alleged process in Krema 4-5. It is the most ridiculous one. Marching back and forth, dragging heavy dead bodies back and forth, heating furnacs in gas chambers despite combustive gasses, the absurd ventilation, the danger to the SS man throwing the Zyklon B in, etc.

The tiny elevator in K2/K3 is very cartoonish but the 4-5 process is an imposition on reason that is really angering. It is very patronising, that the peddlers of lies think this is believable by most people... but they rely on the actual lack of interest and unawareness of normal people, who don't have the time or inclination to read about these things.



Do watch this You Tube video from the 21:15 mark to the 23:39 mark.
Pay close attention to the conversation from the 23:10 mark. Even the brain dead gets it
Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFa7-pC4Wd8
This video is where I discovered the kill process at 4 and 5
History is never a one-sided story.

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Marley775 » 8 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:13 pm)

Fred zz wrote:Here is the claimed kill process at 4 and 5 Birkenau, Your thoughts?
See attachment



The extension of Krema IV and V were actually built for sanitary purpose. This work card shows the worked time of plumbers from 15/03/1943 to 23/04/1943 regarding the sanitary installations in these facilities.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5v5pB.png

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Mongol » 8 months 4 weeks ago (Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:51 am)

The article by Franciszek Piper that was quoted by Wikipedia also says that Mengele acted as a "supervising doctor" for gassings in crematoria II and III (https://archive.org/details/anatomyofauschwi00yisr / https://libgen.lc/index.php?req=anatomy+auschwitz+death+camp):

> The extermination process and cremation of the corpses in crematoria II and III went as follows. After selection for death, the Jews who could walk were marched from the loading ramp to the crematorium. The weak, the invalid, and the sick were transported on trucks. In the crematorium yard, the SS men told the prisoners that they would undergo a disinfection that consisted of delousing and bathing. The victims were led down the staircase to the dressing room in the basement, where they could see the signs (in German) "To the Baths" and "To Disinfection." Similar signs were posted on a portable board in the native language of the victims.
> On the way to the gas chamber some victims were issued a piece of soap and a towel. As a rule, the women and children went in first, followed by the men. Each group was led inside the chamber behind a cordon of SS men that edged toward the door as the chamber filled. With the refractory ones spurred on by blows and dogs, about 2,000 persons on average were crammed inside.
> When the chamber was full or the entire transport was inside and the personnel had left (two SS noncommissioned officers always stayed until the end), the doors were shut, the bolts were slid into place, and the screws were tightened. On order of the supervising SS doctor (the job was assigned to, among others, Josef Mengele, Hans Kénig, and Hans Thilo), the SS disinfectors (Scheinmetz, among others) opened the Zyklon B cans and poured their contents into the vents down the induction shafts inside the chamber.
> [...]
> In the killing process at crematoria IV and V, the prisoners were also brought in cars or were marched to the crematoria, then led to the dressing room. There one of the SS men - the Kommandoführer - would stand on a bench in front of them and explain that the healthy would go to work and the sick and the women and children would remain in the barracks. But first, they would go to the bath.
> After undressing, the prisoners were led through the anteroom to the gas chamber. When the chamber was full, the SS guards shut the doors, and one of them, wearing a gas mask, climbed a ladder or a chair. When the SS doctor on duty gave a sign, the SS man would pour Zyklon B pellets into the opening. In the summer of 1944, Mengele served most often as the duty doctor in crematoria IV and V, and Kommandoführer Scheinmetz, who supervised the Sonderkommando work in crematorium V, poured the pellets.

By googling for `"scheinmetz" "mengele" "iv"`, I found that the story that Mengele oversaw the gassings in Krema IV and V may have come from the testimony of Shlomo Dragon (who is called Szlama Dragan in other sources) (https://www.auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/a-new-auschwitz-discovery,420.html):

> Extracts from a deposition by the witness Shlomo Dragon, Auschwitz prisoner number 80359. On May 10-11, 1945, he testified as follows to the murder of people in the gas chambers and the burning of their corpses:
> Gassing:
> When the chamber was full, the door was closed. This was done by SS guards and usually by Moll himself. Then Mengele gave an order to Scheinmetz who, just as he did at the bunkers, went over to a vehicle with the sign of the red cross on it, took out a canister of gas, opened it, and poured its contents into the chamber through the little window in the side wall. The little window was fairly high up, so he had to use a step-ladder to get to it. Here, just as at the bunkers, he was wearing a mask when he did it.
> Extracting teeth and cutting off hair:
> After a certain time, Mengele communicated that the people were dead. He said, "Es ist schon fertig," and drove away with Scheinmetz in the vehicle with the red cross. Then Moll opened the door of the gas chamber. We put on gas masks and dragged the corpses out of the different chambers, through the little corridor to the undressing room, and through the dressing room and then through the little corridor to the furnaces. Barbers sheared their heads in the first corridor, at the entrance door, and dentists pulled teeth in the second corridor.

An article by Pressac from 1982 titled "Les «Krématorien» IV et V de Birkenau et leurs chambres à gaz" mentions that some parts of Szlama Dragan's testimony referred to Krema IV and V (but it's not clear if Mengele was also supposed to have overseen the gassings at Krema IV and V) (https://www.cairn.info/revue-le-monde-juif-1982-3-page-91.htm, machine-translated from French):

> Szlama Dragan - tragic forced actor - stands facing the cremation room ramp under the fires of the massive eight-retort furnace. He speaks of the ardent summer of 44 (3, appendix 17): "... after the railway junction leading from the Auschwitz station to Birkenau was started, the men were, as soon as they got off the wagons, pushed pace towards crematoria IV and V. The detainees who arrived returned to the room where they had to undress [large hall]. Gorger [Kommandoführer/commando leader] pressed them saying: "Hurry, otherwise the meal and the coffee will be cold". The men were asking for water. Gorger said: "The water is cold, it is forbidden to drink it, hurry up, you will have tea when you get out of the bath" [emphasis added]. When all the detainees were gathered in the room where they undressed, Moll [Otto Moll, Hauptscharführer/chief warrant officer, head of the Birkenau crematoria] climbed up on a bench and said to them: "In this camp the able-bodied will go to work, the women and the sick will remain in the blocks". And pointing to the buildings of Birkenau, he added that before going there, everyone had to take a bath [idem, above] otherwise the camp authorities would not allow them to enter. When all the detainees were undressed, they were quickly led to the gas chamber[s]. At the beginning there were only three gas chambers, then a fourth was built there. The capacity of the first was 1,500 people, the second 800, the third 600 and the fourth 150. The men passed from the room [large hall] where they undressed through a small corridor [Vorraum/vestibule] to the gas chamber. In the gas chambers, there were signs: "Zur Desinfektion/A la disinfection" [and not: "Zum Baden/Aux Bains"]. The SS guards, and most often Moll himself, closed the door when the gas chambers were full. Then, Mengele [SS doctor at the rank of Hauptsturmführer/captain, famous for his "research" twins] ordered Scheinmetz [SS-Rottenführer/master corporal] to fetch the boxes of gas [18].
> It was then that we removed the stretcher and closed the mouth of the oven. We would then load another oven. Burning lasted 15 to 20 minutes. This finished, the ovens were loaded again. When the convoys of Hungarians arrived we worked in two shifts (...). The day shift from 6:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m., the night shift from 6:30 p.m. to 6:30 a.m. This lasted about 3 months. The performance of the crematoria having then proved insufficient, three large and two smaller pits were dug next to crematorium V in order to burn the corpses of the gassed Hungarians". By condensing the sequence of operations, they can be summarized as follows: the selected unfitfrom the ramp were taken to the cloakroom (large hall), undressed there, then were directed to the gas chambers, and died there. The Sonderkommando evacuated the corpses by dragging them into the antechamber, then along the entire length of the locker room, through the airlock to finally reach the oven room. Industrially, the course of operations is aberrant. If the crematoria had been scrupulously planned to exterminate in a chain, only the logical succession of undressing/gassing/cremation would have been retained and not the gassing/undressing/cremation arrangement. Moreover when Dragan completes 17-545 (3, appendix 17): "A man of average height could, arms outstretched, reach the edge of the small window through which the contents of the boxes of Zyklon were thrown. Scheinmetz climbed up a small ladder outside to open the window and throw Zyklon into it", thus repeating his testimony of 10 and 11-5-45: "the gas canister... to pour the contents into the gas chamber through the small window placed on the side wall. To reach it, Scheinmetz, wearing a mask, climbed a ladder", we are amazed in front of this DIY, when it would have been so simple to place or equip the openings otherwise, lower, or by building just below a small staircase of a few steps, so as to make them directly accessible. The witness recounts what he saw with his own eyes and what was happening: a spectacle leading to the death of those who had had the misfortune to appear there. So, one thing is obvious: KREMATORIUM IV AND V WERE NOT DESIGNED AS CRIMINAL INSTRUMENTS, BUT WERE TRANSFORMED FOR THIS PURPOSE [24].

In Pressac's book "Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers", he quoted the testimony of Henrik Tauber who said: "They told me that I was not among the first to do this work, and that before I came another 2 million people had already been gassed in Bunkers 1 and 2 and Krematorium 1. Adding up, the total number of people gassed in Auschwitz amounted to about 4 million." (https://www.historiography-project.com/books/pressac-auschwitz/501.php) After that, Pressac included the following comment: "A propaganda figure, become symbolic. We find the same type of response in the deposition by Szlama Dragan on 17th May 1945. where he says in similar terms: 'I am unable to say the exact number of Jews of other origin gassed at Auschwitz (except for 70,000 Greek Jews burned in 1943). I think the total number gassed in the two Bunkers and the four Krematorien exceeded 4 million.'" However in Pressac's French article from 1982, he seemed to accept other parts of Dragan's testimony at face value.

According to an article written by Shlomo's brother Abraham, Shlomo Dragon is supposed to have escaped a death march together with Tauber (and the Sonderkommando are actually supposed to have buried their secret manuscripts in Krema III lol) (http://www.tenhumbergreinhard.de/19331945opfer/1933-1945-opfer-d/dragon-shlomo.html):

> Shlomo managed to escape on the death march near Pszczyna together with the special detachment inmate Henryk Tauber. He reported to the Soviet investigative commission as an eyewitness and in February 1945 led its members to crematorium no. III, where members of the special commando had buried their "secret manuscripts".

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Mongol » 8 months 4 weeks ago (Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:42 am)

In the book "Debunking the Bunkers of Auschwitz", Mattogno wrote (https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=11):

> 1) In the Soviet deposition, Szlama Dragon affirms that 'Bunker 1' had a total floor area of 80 square meters and 1,500 to 1,700 persons could be squeezed into it - i.e., 19 to 22 persons per square meter in rounded figures! In the Polish deposition he speaks of "fewer than 2,000 persons" which corresponds to a density of "fewer than" 25 persons per square meter! On the other hand, 'Bunker 2' had a total floor area of 100 square meters and could take in 2,000 persons according to the Soviet deposition or up to 2,550, if we follow the Polish one. Thus, here again, we have a density of 20 to 25 persons per square meter!
> 2) In the Soviet deposition the witness declares that his transport (2,500 persons), which arrived on December 7, 1942, was received at Birkenau by Dr. Mengele, who carried out the selection.[242] However, Dr. Mengele was not dispatched to Auschwitz until six months later, on May 30, 1943.[243] Dragon adds that the gassings were performed "by various SS men, one of whom was called Scheimetz" ("Шаймец"). In the Polish deposition the witness declares that the gassings were carried out by _Rottenführer_ "Scheinmetz" upon the orders given by Mengele; the Zyklon B was brought by a car with the sign of the Red Cross, which the Germans called "Sanker."[244]
> At the time - as we have already seen - Mengele was not yet at Auschwitz. As to "Scheimetz," "Scheinmetz," or "Steinmetz" - a rather common German last name - nothing at all is known about him," and there is therefore no proof that he ever existed. It is true that this name was also mentioned by Henryk Tauber in his deposition of May 24, 1945, but Tauber gave his deposition after Dragon's. That the source is really Dragon is borne out by the fact that for the gassings Tauber, too, evokes the duo Mengele-Scheimetz."' It is likewise clear that Dragon, at the time of the Soviet deposition, did not yet know anything about the alleged vehicle with the Red Cross, which brought the Zyklon B and which appears in many later testimonies.
> 3) In his declarations regarding the extermination capacity of the 'Bunkers,' Dragon reaches the pinnacle of absurdity. He states:[274]
> > "Over 24 hours, all the trenches could burn no fewer than 10,000 persons. On average, in the ten trenches, [no fewer than] 17,000 to 18,000 persons were burned in 24 hours, but on certain occasions the number of persons burned reached 27,000 to 28,000."
> Hence, between December 1942 and March 1943 not fewer than (17,000 × 30 × 4 = ) 2,040,000 persons, most of them Jews, were exterminated! However, during the period in question, only some 125,000 Jews had arrived at Auschwitz, of whom 105,000[248] were not registered. As far as 1944 is concerned, not even during the deportation of the Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz, 6 or 7 transports ever arrived on a single day.

Pressac was also suspicious of Shlomo Dragon's estimate of how many people could fit inside the White House (https://www.historiography-project.com/books/pressac-auschwitz/171.php):

> Located 350 meters due west of the Zentral Sauna, the installation known as Bunker 2 seems, according to Szlam[y] Dragon and the PMO, to have consisted of a whitewashed farmhouse (hence the name "white house") whose converted interior held four gas chambers of different sizes, with an overall floor area of 105m², two sheds serving as undressing rooms and a certain number of cremation ditches, four on 10th December 1942 according to the witness S. Dragon.
> [...]
> > After having removed all the bodies from the cottage, we ware obliged to clean it thoroughly, washing the floor with water and spreading sawdust and whitewashing the walls. The interior of the cottage was divided into four parts by partition walls running across it [Document 2: Drawing 2], one of which could contain 1,200 naked people, the second 700 the third 400 the and the fourth 200 to 250.
> [Making a total of 2500 to 2550 people which represents a density of 28 people per square meter over an area of 90m². This is physically impossible and S. Dragon's estimate of 2500/2550 is clearly wrong. I do not think that this witness was intentionally misleading, but he was following the tendency to exaggerate which seems to have been the general rule at the time of the liberation and which is what gave rise to the figure of 4 million victims for KL. Auschwitz, a figure now considered to be pure propaganda. It should be divided by four to get close to reality.]

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Mongol » 8 months 4 weeks ago (Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:52 pm)

In the book "Sonderkommando Auschwitz II - The False Testimonies by Henryk Tauber and Szlama Dragon", Mattogno wrote (https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=45):

> As Dragon asserted during the Soviet interrogation and reiterated in his Polish deposition, SS Hauptsturmführer Dr. (Camp Physician) Josef Mengele was already in Auschwitz at the beginning of December 1942:
> > "The selection of people for cremation was the responsibility of the SS fascist Mengele, a doctor, and SS [man] Mol [Moll], who directed the mass cremation of people arriving from various countries and of various nationalities, regardless of gender and age." (S2)
> > "I arrived in Oświęcim on 7 December 1942 by train, in a transport of 2,500 Jews of different genders and ages from the Mława Ghetto. At the station, this transport was received by Lagerführer Plage, Raportführer Palitsch and Camp Physician Mengele. Already at the station, they carried out the selection, separating the women and children into one group, the men into another." (P1)
> It is an established fact, however, that Mengele was transferred to Auschwitz only on 30 May 1943 (Lasik 1995, p. 289), by which time the alleged activity of the "bunkers" had ceased a few months earlier. This cannot be a harmless "confusion" (as expressed by Saletti, FN 3, p. 95), because the witness claimed to have known Mengele personally (P8):
> > "He was a man of my height, I think he was about 40 years old, with brown hair."
> Therefore, he could not have mistaken him for another SS medical officer. Tauber also invokes Mengele's presence at Crematorium II in his description of the "first gassing" in that building, and concerning the alleged events that took place there until mid-April 1943:
> > "From a window in the heating room, I observed how the 'Cyklon' was poured into the gas chamber. Each transport was followed by a car bearing the insignia of the Red Cross. The Camp Doctor Mengele and Rottenführer Scheimetz arrived in this car at the crematorium." (P18)
> This Scheimetz (also mentioned by Dragon) is a fictional character, of whose existence there is no documentary evidence. Piper mentions him in his list of "SS Disinfectors, SS Paramedics and Other SS Members" but merely with a simple reference to Tauber's sentence quoted earlier.
> Aleksander Lasik, in his documented article whose title translates to "The staffing of the SS sanitary service in the Auschwitz-Birkenau Concentration Camp in the years 1940-1945" lists in alphabetical order 184 names, and devotes a generous page to Josef Mengele (Lasik 1997, p. 314), but does not mention Scheimetz at all.

Dragon also mentioned Mengele in his testimony on May 17, 1945:

> The head of Crematoria IV and V and Bunker No. 2 was _Hauptscharführer_ Moll. He was a man of medium height, with a strong body build, blond, combed with a part. I believe he was about 37 years old. His wife and two children /a son about 10 years old and a younger daughter about 7 years old/ lived in Oświęcim. Lagerarzt Mengele very often witnessed the gassing. He was a man of my height, I think he was about 40 years old, with brown hair. He always arrived in the medical car carrying the Cyklon and, like the other inmates employed in the _Sonderkommando_, I saw that during the gassing of the people he stood by the door [p. 9/110] leading to the gas chamber. This door was equipped with a peephole. When the gassing was over, the door was opened on Mengele's order. When the bodies were removed from the chamber, Mengele was already gone, because he left immediately after ascertaining that the victims had been gassed, and giving the order to open the gas-chamber door. He drove away in this same medical car. I never saw Mengele examine the people who were going to the gas chamber or observe or examine the bodies of the gassed victims.

On May 24 1945 in a statement to Investigating Judge Jan Sehn, Dragon also said that "I mentioned Mengele because I met him very often during my work." So it further reduces the feasibility of the theory presented by Sergey Romanov that "Dragon was 'telescoping' Mengele's later participation in selections (which he probably had heard about from other inmates, if he didn't witness it himself) back to his arrival, as was a common occurrence among survivors. It doesn't mean that it is a _deliberate_ untruth." (http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/01/carlo-mattogno-failed-dragon-slayer.html)

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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Merlin300 » 8 months 4 weeks ago (Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:02 pm)

Fred zz wrote:Here is the claimed kill process at 4 and 5 Birkenau, Your thoughts?
See attachment

Krema 4 and 5 were about impossible to use as a mass murder facility.
The best source of information is Pressac's Technique and Operation
Read-
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0379.shtml
For Photographs of the Krema IV. see
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0417.shtml

The "gas chamber" was a series of small rooms with doors, a stove, and a closet.
Some rooms could not have had "gas" thrown into them making "gassing" difficult if not impossible.

Removing bodies would have been complicated
The Zyklon was allegedly poured through small windows by an SS man standing on the top of a ladder.
The SS Man would have been looking in at the same level as the people inside the room!
There was no ventilation system to extract cyanide gas.

The design of K IV and V was clearly not of a homicidal system. It was designed in in August 1942 and built in 1943.
This is significant evidence that no policy of mass murder was in place at the time.

Fred zz
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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Fred zz » 8 months 4 weeks ago (Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:10 am)

here is my humble suggestion to improve the building layout
It took me about less than a minute come up with
Attachments
fred and Arnold's ideas.JPG
History is never a one-sided story.

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Waldgänger
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Re: Mengele personally oversaw gassings at Krema IV & V? Since when?

Postby Waldgänger » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:55 am)

Excellent resources, all. I was particularly amused by Dragon's assertion that these extremely poisonous corpses were shorn of hair & pulled of teeth after their gassing. What a farce.


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